i dont even think that lopez >> noah is that definitive. they both do different things very well.

noah is the perfect guy for you to have on your time to do the dirty work. he doesn't take sheet from no one.

he has really really impressed, and has been better than i ever thought he would be in the nba. i wouldve taken tyrus thomas' career over noah's outta college.

rose and harris don't really even belong in the same sentence. they are different echelons of players.

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 5/13/2010 2:57p).]

2009 Harris outperformed 2010 Rose in every relevant stat category. If you are willing to give Harris a pass for 2010, then the comparison is not laughable.

lol

show me anyone who takes harris over rose. please. ill give up eleventy billion dollars.

No one would take Harris over Rose, but of you factor in Lopez, ownership and the New York market than the Nets offer a better situation.

And Harris already knows how to defer to a superstar (okay that was sarcasm)

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There is no possible comparable talent that will be offerred for LeBron, and of course LeBron wouldn't go to a team that just traded it's best player back to the Cavs. That's not an option. He will go to a team that doesn't have to trade back too much talent back to Cleveland.

Cleveland would definitely prefer a sign and trade, so they can get some assets to start rebuilding. If LeBron leaves Cleveland will blow it up and start over like Seattle and Minnesota in '07. Seattle was able to get a giant trade exception for Rashard Lewis when he left for Orlando, which helped them make future deals.

So again, what will Chicago bring to the table? No way Cleveland would take Deng and Hinrich's contract off their hands. Cleveland will want picks and young talent so they can start rebuilding.

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1. First of all, who give a **** what Cleveland wants? They have no leverage here.
2. Do you understand how NBA trades work? The contracts need to match up salary wise. Why the **** would Cleveland want a high priced player that isn't great? The Bulls cannot offer 4 first round draft picks stright up for a max contract LeBron.

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Harris+Lopez > Rose+Noah

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You cannot be serious with this statement. If you are, I seriously want to meet you IRL so I can smack the dumbass out of you.

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2009 Harris outperformed 2010 Rose in every relevant stat category.

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2008-2009 Devin Harris stats
21.3 PPG
3.3 RPG
6.9 APG
1.7 SPG
3.1 TPG
43% FG
29% 3-point
82% FT

This was his 5th year in the league.

2009-2010 Derrick Rose stats
20.8 PPG
3.8 RPG
6.0 APG
0.7 SPG
2.8 TPG
49% FG
27% 3-point
77% FT

This was in his 2nd year in the league.

I don't see much outperforming there. So would you rather have the 21-year old current All-Star still on his way up or the 27-year old former All-Star who is already regressing?

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2. Do you understand how NBA trades work? The contracts need to match up salary wise.

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not when one team is under the cap. The Bulls do not have to send back matching salaries.

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Teams below the salary cap may trade without regard to salary, as long as they don't end up more than $100,000 above the cap following a trade.

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But a S&T with LeBron could very likely push them over this threshold.

Okay so I'll ask for the 3rd time. What is the best S&T scenario for the Bulls? Is there a good scenario where they can stay under the cap and not have to send back matching salaries? Any Bulls fans want to weigh in on this or should I just look it up myself?

They're obviously not going to trade Rose or Noah. Hinrich and Deng are good, but overpaid. Taj Gibson is a good young player, but he doesn't make a lot of money. Other than that, I can't see Cleveland wanting anyone from the Bulls roster.

The Bulls have $20.6 million in cap space. As long as that first year of LBJ's new contract is under $20.6 they can trade anything right?

But then again, if that's the case where's the incentive for the Bulls to S&T?

Yes we all know Hintich and Deng are overpaid and Gibson is pretty good, but what are the specific scenarios, with numbers? If this was Spirs thread them Guitarsiup would have already given us a full breakdown of specific options.

You said that a trade would likely push the Bulls over the cap, so show us the math on that scenario. If you don't know and were just trying to cover up that you don't understand the salary cap, that's fine. Just let me know so I can stop wasting my time here.

The Bulls still have to fill out the whole roster. There will be more players to sign.

If you're worried about wasting time, why do you keep droning on & on about a sign and trade that isn't going to happen?

[This message has been edited by Dr. Cub, Esq. (edited 5/13/2010 4:26p).]

It seems like the only way a S&T would be necessary is if Lebron really wanted the extra year/money that he could only get from Cleveland.

But there is incentive for him to avoid a S&T and take less to sign with his desired team. A sign and trade depletes the team that he would sign with.

For example (just an example), I would rather sign with the Bulls for 6 years 100 million and keep Deng, Hinrich and Gibson as teammates than sign for 7 years, 120 million and lose those three players. But I'm not Lebron.

Luol Deng – $11.35 million
Kirk Hinrich – $9 million
Derrick Rose – $5.55 million
Joakim Noah – $3.13 million
James Johnson – $1.71 million
Taj Gibson – $1.12 million

#17 pick in the draft via Milwaukee.
$2.36 million for open roster spot holds.

Looks like there's no need for a S&T.

Although here is what seems like an interesting caveat: if they sign LBJ to a max contract via FA the MLE will be unavailable. However, I'd they manage a S&T then the available cap space wouldn't be used via FA signing and the MLE would be added to their salary after the fact.

Now they have the MLE $5 million to work with for FA signing after the trade, instead of the soft-cap difference after LBJ's FA acquisition. Is that right?

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If a team is below the cap, then their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question numbers 29, 30, 31, 32). A team can't act like they're under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions.

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I don't think there is any chance of a sign-and-trade for Lebron. Unless they get a Herschel Walker deal that GM would be insta-fired. Right now the GM has just one job, keep Lebron. If Lebron leaves, then he gets fired. He might as well sign his own pink slip as a sign and trade.

If Lebron wants to leave, he's leaving. If you can choose between getting something for your superstar or getting nothing, you get something. In a Lebron IS leaving situation, a S&T is the best possible way to send him off (given the alternative), so I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion.

I don't think there will be a S&T, but it's not completely out of the realm of possibility given how the exceptions work (IF we're still talking about Chicago).

Under normal circumstances I'm with you on the S&T. When it comes to Boozer, Bosh, Wade, Johnson or any of those guys a S&T is a real possibility.

The James situation is unique. He single-handedly resurrected the franchise that MJ destroyed. He is the hometown hero. He is the two-time league MVP. Under almost no circumstances do the Cavaliers want him to go.

Refusing to sign and trade does several things for you. First, you narrow your pool of competition. Only teams with cap space for a max contract can even think of going after him, and teams like the Mavs are out of the picture immediately. Second, you can offer him more money and a longer contract than anyone else.

You take a chance that he leaves for less money and you get nothing, but at least you don't broaden his horizons or make someone's elses offer as good as yours.

Like I said before, that GM's only job right now is keeping Lebron. No matter what he gets back from a S&T he will still be the GM who lost the hometown hero and once-in-a-generation player.

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Harris+Lopez > Rose+Noah
Russian Mark Cuban+Jaz-Z > Reinsdrof
Brooklyn > Chicago with Jordan's statue at the arena

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I know we have already moved past this but I just had to give it the laugh/cry.

[This message has been edited by BigW59 (edited 5/14/2010 11:03a).]

OK. Now LeBron is a free agent.

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Like I said before, that GM's only job right now is keeping Lebron. No matter what he gets back from a S&T he will still be the GM who lost the hometown hero and once-in-a-generation player.

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I can see this logic. But the way so many teams have positioned themselves for FA max contracts weakens your "narrow the field" argument. Having a "Big 3" formula has proven to be very effective over the last decade, and he's got two destinations that have two fairly decent players and enough cap space to sign him as a max FA.

He'd be stupid to not take a serious look at Chicago.

there is 1000000000000000000000%%%%%% no chance the cavs S&T lebron. their fans would murder the org.


they are going to force him to walk. they can at least save face. that will probably be more important to be mad a lebron than get something in return for their moron fans.


that being said....lebron's gone, and Cleveland is screwed no matter what they do or don't get in return.

Newark =/= Brooklyn.....

simmons nailed it

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100514&sportCat=nba

lebron = Dr. J

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3. If he cares about winning titles (multiple) and reaching his full potential as a player, he only has one move: the Chicago Bulls. That's always been the play. If you've been listening to my podcast or reading this column, you know that I've been touting this possibility since last winter, and here's why: Deep down, I think LeBron (and just as important, the people around him) realizes that he needs one more kick-ass player to make his life easier. That means Miami or Chicago. And really, I can't imagine him signing with Miami because Wade is almost too good. LeBron wants help, but he doesn't want to be perceived as riding someone else's coattails, either. Dwyane Wade might be the best player alive for all we know -- he certainly was in 2006, and he's been banged-up and trapped on bad teams ever since.



No, Chicago makes more sense. Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah proved that they were warriors these past two springs. They could be his Pippen/Grant or McHale/DJ. Easily. Rose could take the creative load off LeBron on nights that he doesn't have it. Rose could come through a few times in the clutch. Rose could hide some of LeBron's faults. It's the single smartest basketball move for LeBron James. It's the Michael Corleone move.

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