I don't know what to think about the Cavs the last two years...you don't rack up 120+ regular season wins and the top overall seed twice with anything even remotely resembling a bad team...on the other hand, I honestly never believed they had the collection of talent needed to beat Boston, Orlando or L.A. in a best of seven series either...they really remind me of Dallas to be honest. They can sting you in a one game situation but best of seven not so much.

You put Lebron on this Lakers team in Kobes spot and the Lakers are just as good as they are now.

Mo Williams is horrible, Shaq sucks, Mike Brown is complete garbage. Lebron is playing with scrubs.

Here are the nucleuses of teams that have won titles in the past decade….

2000-2002 – Bryant, Shaq (in his prime when he was probably the 3rd best center of all time behind Wilt and Hakeem)
2003 – Duncan, Robinson, Parker/Ginobili
2004 – Billups, Hamilton, Wallace
2005 – Duncan, Parker, Ginobili
2006 – Wade, Shaq (tail end of Shaq’s prime), Payton
2007 – Duncan, Parker, Ginobili
2008 – Garnett, Pierce, Allen
2009 – Bryant, Gasol, Odem, Bynum

LeBron has had Moe Williams as his 2nd fiddle for the last several years. Tell me which player on any of those championship teams that he is better than besides maybe Payton (who was the 3rd or 4th fiddle on that Heat team that year).

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Mo Williams is horrible, Shaq sucks, Mike Brown is complete garbage. Lebron is playing with scrubs

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No, no, no, and no. The Cavs are a good team, he couldn't win 60+ games with scrubs. His supporting cast could be better, but it's not garbage. The Celtics are just a better team. Rondo is playing like the best point guard in the league and the Big 3 are all meshing the way they were designed to. Like somebody else said, the Cavs have the 1st and 6th best players in this series and that's not enough... and they certainly can't overcome Lebron having a hurt elbow and being mentally out of the game.

Mo Williams was an All-Star last season and Antawn Jamison is was putting up 20 and 8 for the season before Cleveland got him (22 and 8 last year). Varejao is also an All-Defense player.

The Cavs have the personnel. Their coach has to go, though. Why does Shaq log extended minutes on this team? Why? Some of the minutes he allocates and the substitutions he makes are completely ridiculous.

Actually, I'd say no, yes, yes. Moe Williams isn't horrible but he is too inconsistent to be considered a great player. Mike Brown is garbage. He is honestly one of the worst coaches in the league. Anyone should be able to tell this by the way that moron uses (or doesn't use in a lot of cases) his timeouts.

No team will ever win a title with Mo Williams as their second best player. Case closed.

I'd say Mo contributes more to Cleveland than Bynum did in the run last year. Bynum was hurt and played sparingly (sounds like a broken record -- though he's been decent this time around). With Odom you never know what you are going to get --sometimes he's great and sometimes he's a turd -- kind of like Mo actually.

If you want to pair anyone with Kobe and Gasol in 2009, you'd have to put Fisher or Ariza in that slot but they are bit players and not all-stars.

Antawn Jamison is their second best player.

If you think Mike Brown is an idiot, then you think basically every coach is an idiot except for Pop, Adelman, Jackson, Brown, and Sloan.

Lots of people think Doc Rivers are idiots, but one of them will probably get a ring this year. People think Alvin Gentry is a genius now, but that reminds me of when we thought the Hornets coach was a genius and now he looks like an idiot.

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Head Ninja In Charge
posted 10:17a, 05/14/10



Antawn Jamison is their second best player.

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HotardAg07
posted 10:19a, 05/14/10



If you think Mike Brown is an idiot, then you think basically every coach is an idiot except for Pop, Adelman, Jackson, Brown, and Sloan.

Lots of people think Doc Rivers are idiots, but one of them will probably get a ring this year. People think Alvin Gentry is a genius now, but that reminds me of when we thought the Hornets coach was a genius and now he looks like an idiot.

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If you consider Mike Brown to be a good coach, then I don't know what else to say. I think Doc Rivers is a good coach. He is certainly getting the most out of his team and players right now.

Bill Simmons calls Doc Rivers an idiot pretty much every game and thinks his decisions are laughable. Doc Rivers has his team in contention because he has 4 all-stars in his starting lineup and his young point guard is playing like the best PG in the league.

Just looks at his rotations and his insistence to keep playign Rasheed Wallace. Wallace has been laughably bad this year.

[This message has been edited by HotardAg07 (edited 5/14/2010 10:43a).]

Bill Simmons also references Spencer and Heidi more than he does Naismith and Wooden.

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No, no, no, and no. The Cavs are a good team, he couldn't win 60+ games with scrubs

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Its much easier to win in the regular season then the playoffs, when teams dont care as much. You get the other teams best shot in the playoffs, not so much during the regular season.

Mo Williams would be the 4th option, maybe worse, if he was on the Lakers. He is the second scoring option on the cavs.

From the Marcin Gortat twitter page:

BUhahhhaahahha...WE ALL WITNESSES!!!!

http://twitter.com/MGortat/status/13952983784




[This message has been edited by Iowaggie (edited 5/14/2010 11:27a).]

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The fact that Kobe even sniffed the playoffs in the Western Conference during that stretch with arguably the worst supporting cast in the league is nothing short of a miracle.

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In 2007, they finished with 42 wins & tied for the last playoff spot, they got the 7th seed. The TWolves, Blazer, Sonics, Kings & Grizzlies were ALL ****ing horrible. With their best players either being rookies or Gasol who Kobe got the next year.

So, that left the Lakers battling with the Clippers, Warriors & Hornets for the last 2 playoff slots.

You know that stacked Clippers team with "I Miss 1/2 the season" Brand, "Old Man" Cassell & Kaman & Hornets with Paul & West in their 2nd & 3rd years.

Yeah, totally ****ing miraculous!!! How did he ever do it with 5 TERRIBLE teams that were all lacking talent & then managing to beat out a weak Clippers team by 2 games & a very young Hornets team by 3. Again, just ****ing amazing! A weak roster w/Kobe & Odom should finish ahead of a weak roster + a rookie Roy & Aldridge, or Gasol & Miller, or Allen & Lewis, or Garnett & Davis, etc. The Lakers in those years finished exactly where they should have finished.


[This message has been edited by Syd_X_Barrett (edited 5/14/2010 12:24p).]

2006 was basically the same story as above just switch the Kings & Warriors, but then add another horrible team in Houston (yeah, that Rockets roster that year was just loaded). The Hornets, Blazers & Sonics were even WORSE than they were in in 07 too.

Miraculous my arse.

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HotardAg07
posted 10:43a, 05/14/10



Bill Simmons calls Doc Rivers an idiot pretty much every game and thinks his decisions are laughable. Doc Rivers has his team in contention because he has 4 all-stars in his starting lineup and his young point guard is playing like the best PG in the league.

Just looks at his rotations and his insistence to keep playign Rasheed Wallace. Wallace has been laughably bad this year.

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That is because Bill Simmons is a Boston homer. No different than what MassAggie posts about Popavich on this board all year. You thing Popavich is a bad coach?

Maybe you didn't watch the game last night, but Wallace hit a couple of huge 3s to silence Cavs runs and finished with 13 points. Besides, he is their 4th option on offense anyways.

I hate Kobe but he is on or very near Jordan's plain. You can't just ignore what he did based on the players around him.

Based on the previous comments it seems like you can't be considered a good player unless you willed a bad team to title which has never, ever happened. Good teams w/ good players win titles.

t-cam with the sledgehammer to the temple of spurs homers

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Maybe you didn't watch the game last night, but Wallace hit a couple of huge 3s to silence Cavs runs and finished with 13 points. Besides, he is their 4th option on offense anyways.

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He's like their 6th option on offense.

I gotta agree with DP. Doc Rivers motivated his guys and got them to start playing playoff basketball. He easily outfoxed Brown, which really isn't much of a task.

It doesn't hurt that his team is stacked, but they played beyond themselves in this series, and motivating his guys to do that falls to the coach. Tony Allen played some solid D on Lebron for two straight games, and Doc knew exactly how to handle him.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 5/14/2010 12:28p).]

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I hate Kobe but he is on or very near Jordan's plain. You can't just ignore what he did based on the players around him.

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You also can't go around acting like he was the hand of God willing his roster of spares, a still too young Bynum & Odom to finish 2 games ahead of a "loaded" Clippers team w/Brand, Maggette & senior citizen Cassell.

Kobe's teams finish about where they should. When they have 2-3 other All Star type players they are championship caliber. Ooh, what a shocker there. When he had a roster like the Blazers, Clippers, Sonics, TWolves, Kings, etc had in those years they finished a few games ahead of those teams. Again, ooh, what a shocker.

Same thing can be said about Jordan before Pippen turned into a top 5 player.

mike brown is such a good coach he was fired 14 hours after their season ended.

everyone hates matt barnes, even kobe

Hotard- You still think Mike Brown isnt complete garbage? The cavs wasted no time canning that no talent clown.

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LeBron's team that made it to the Finals was a good team with a decent supporting cast.

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The second best player on that team was either Sasha Pavlovic or Larry Hughes. Donyell Marshall and Eric Snow got big minutes and Drew Gooden was a starter. Sorry, but that is one of the worst playoff teams of all time.

And regarding this last game... you don't blame the guy who had 27, 19 and 10 with 3 steals and a block. Blame Jamison, who had 5 points and 5 rebounds in 30 minutes even though the Lebron haters keep saying he is anything but empty numbers when it doesn't matter. Blame Delonte West, who had 3 points, 1 rebound, no assists and didn't make a field goal. Blame Mike Brown for thinking he can roll the ball out on the court and beat 4 perennial all stars with street ball.

It's like all the Dirk haters.
Dirk can average 30+ and 10 boards and somehow it isn't Terry or Kid's fault at the end of the day.

tcam hit it.

dosent matter that dirk plays his heart out and averages 30 and 10, but he has a "great" supporting cast who fail to show up every playoffs.

but its dirks fault.

so far, dirk haas done more in the plaoyofs than lebron.

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LeBron's team that made it to the Finals was a good team with a decent supporting cast.

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The second best player on that team was either Sasha Pavlovic or Larry Hughes. Donyell Marshall and Eric Snow got big minutes and Drew Gooden was a starter. Sorry, but that is one of the worst playoff teams of all time.

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This. Lebron's team that played the Spurs WAS FREAKING TERRIBLE for a finals team. They had Lebron and a bunch of damn spares. The fact that they made it past a good Detroit team on Lebron's heart alone is rather remarkable.

When they rolled into San Antonio, Lebron couldn't contend with a team that had multiple stars. He has been the lone ranger from day 1 in Cleveland. It's no surprise that he hasn't won a title yet.

[This message has been edited by aggie_2001_2005 (edited 5/15/2010 11:30p).]