that is all

Hard to argue with that air-tight reasoning.

So, Kobe has won with Shaq and Phil...Phil leaves and Shaq leaves and lakers don't make playoffs.

Kobe then gets Phil back and Gasol, Odum, Bynum, and now Artest and back in championship mode.

Kobe is great no doubt, but he didn't do it when there was no supporting cast.

Put Lebron where Kobe has been and Lebron has the same rings. Put Kobe where Lebron has been and Kobe has the same thing Lebron has.

Damn people good teams have tremendous talent around them. Bird had lots of talent around him, Magic had tremendous talent around him. Kobe has had good talent around him.

The problem with this new age player is that they all want to be "the" man. They all need to figure out that it's not all about them. If you want a ring, go play with other great players and not be afraid for them to get some attention.

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blue diamond to the op. genius.

^Real talk. The accolades will come with winning. Duncan has been on really good teams with good coaching and it's never detracted from his individual greatness or standing around the league.

Same with Garnett. Pierce and Allen (and a young Rondo) were pieces needed to win. I don't think it detracted any from Garnett's individual accomplishments. In fact, he won DPOY that year.

I think Kobe's career is pretty unique. Even though he's played on one team, it's gone through various transformations. Started out decent with the young Shaq/Van Exel/Jones team. Quickly rose to championship caliber with Phil Jackson. Bottomed out during the mid-2000's. Back on top. In that time, he got to: 1) grow (96-99), 2) win (00-03), 3) prove his individual greatness (05-08), 4) win on his own terms so to speak (09).

With LeBron, it's different. He came in expected to win. He has not wiggle room and the pressure of playing in Ohio could be too great even for him. For a player of his caliber, I think it was the worst-case scenario to get drafted to the hometown team. If he stays, I don't think he'll get a ring.

You're right, Lebron will not win a championship in Cleveland unless they make major changes which I don't see happening. If he does move to another city, I don't see him getting close to an NBA championship for a couple more years.

Lebron was expected to put Cleveland on the NBA map while Kobe was much more of an enigma. The only person who knew how good Kobe could be was the logo, Jerry West.

Its true that Kobe has never been asked to do what Lebron can do and Lebron is showing how hard it is to win a championship as the only megastar. Nevertheless its comparable to winning a championship with a franchise that expects nothing less than the Larry O'Brien trophy year after year. Kobe has had to deal with the media day in and day out since Day 1 and all those haters who say that he should have went to college, that he can't play defense, that he shoots too much, that he can't win without Shaq and that he doesn't make his teammates better.

Kobe is smarter than a lot of NBA coaches and we have yet to figure out if Lebron has the mental fortitude to push through expectations and injuries. Kobe just doesn't get enough credit for being a smart basketball player.

And just remember one thing, MJ retired in between championships while Kobe has not taken one single season off in 14 years and yet he still brings it everynight.

I would be willing to bet that if you took a poll of Laker versus non-Laker fans, only the Laker fans would say Kobe > Lebron. And maybe not even all of them.

Personally, I don't see how anyone could watch both players play, and think Kobe is the better of the two. To me that's a ridiculous notion. But to each, his own, I suppose.

disagree mass.

lebron is the most gifted athelete ever.

kobe was a freak at his atheltic peak, sure. but no lebron.

kobe's game is more complete. and, so far, he makes his teammates better than lebron has made his. plus, kobe works harder and has a huge mental edge over lebron (look who the ball went to the in gold medal game with lebron, wade, kobe on the floor).

thus, kobe > lebron.

There's no question who the most athletic player is (likely the most athletic ever) but there's also no question who's squeezed all the athletic ability and talent possible out of himself either.

If LeBron had Kobe's work ethic, look the F out. Not that LeBron's lazy or anything like that -- just saying Kobe leaves absolutely no stone unturned in his practice and preparation...something he doesn't always get credit for.

No one knew the Kobe from his first year or two would turn into what he is now...hell he didn't even start for the Lakers until his second year and that was only due to an injury in the line-up. You can't say the same thing about LeBron. He's been anointed since his junior year of high school (at least).

So, you guys are laker fans then?

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kobe's game is more complete.

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Kobe is a more complete scorer, Lebron is a more complete offensive player. Kobe has never come close to Lebron's assist numbers. Both are overrated but still good defenders.

lebron's assist numbers shouldnt be that high.

you seen the triangle offense? even when kobe was running with brick hands kwame brown and smush parker, he still wasn't dominating the ball as much as lebron.

if/when lebron gets in an offense where the offense is more than....."uhhh, sheet, lebron do something, here's a screen and roll"....his assist numbers will go down. they are overinflated.


if you think lebron is a more complete offensive player than kobe, you are flat out wrong. and an idiot. and 99% of "experts" in the media will disagree with you.

Right now the only thing I can say that Kobe definitively has over LBJ is the mental edge, which is a pretty big part.

Kobe is a better pure scorer, and finisher. LBJ is a better all-around player, more athletic, and he is a better teammate (he makes his teammates better then Kobe makes his).

LBJ is the better basketball player.
Kobe is and has been in a better position to be a winner.

Kobe's degree of difficulty on his jump shots would make even Jordan blush. I've never seen a guy shoot and make more what-the-f-are-you-thinking-ok-never-mind jumpers in my life. I think Jordan was a little better at getting separation on his shot, both legally and illegally (Exhibit A - 1998 Game 6 in Utah), than Kobe is.

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kobe's game is more complete. and, so far, he makes his teammates better than lebron has made his

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It's not that Kobe makes his teammates better than Lebron makes his, it's that Kobe's teammates are better then Lebron's to begin with.

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MassAggie97
posted 4:40p, 05/14/10



So, you guys are laker fans then?

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unforetunately, I'm a Rockets fan

Better athlete- Lebron
Better basketball player- Kobe

and I don't think either conversation is that close

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It's not that Kobe makes his teammates better than Lebron makes his, it's that Kobe's teammates are better then Lebron's to begin with.

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I have said it before, but Lebron has no sidekick, no one to pick up the slack when he has a bad game. Kobe won championships with Shaq in his prime, and then couldn't win again until the Lakers robbed Memphis in the Gasol trade. A one man team can't win a championship in the NBA, matter how good that player is.

Although an interesting discussion would be whether or not Jordan could have taken this Cavs team to an NBA title. I'm leaning no, but it's close.

[This message has been edited by J. Walter Weatherman (edited 5/15/2010 1:38p).]

in 2010

lebron: better athlete, unstoppable on way to basket, spotty j

kobe: better j, more moves, better player with mental edge, clutchness


might change since lbj is only 24/25.

I'm a Spurs fan, for the record, and I've been on record all along as still saying Kobe is #1. I keep being on the verge of changing that but LeBron still hasn't snatched the title, IMO.

Everything that watty said, but I'm a Rockets fan. Kobe is still that dude.

Everything that watty said, but I'm a Rockets fan. Kobe is still that dude.

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unforetunately, I'm a Rockets fan

Better athlete- Lebron
Better basketball player- Kobe

and I don't think either conversation is that close

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+1

Might someday be better?

Who has the third highest career PPG in NBA history behind only Jordan and Wilt?

Who has twice as many NBA MVP awards as the next guy?

Who has absurdly dominant statistics across the board in every major category? PPG, RBG, APG, 3PT%, you name it. And this is career OR this seaso.

What exactly are we debating here? Is it who has the most rings on his fingers? If so, let's go ahead and toss Robert Horry in to the mix.

Kobe's lone championship without the most dominant center in NBA history in his prime should be asterisked because KG was injured. For the doubters, this fact will become painfully clear in a few short weeks.

Kobe is the most skilled player, but Lebron is the best athlete and most unstoppable force in the game.

I don't think we can say Kobe is better until we see what Lebron can do with a top 5 player at his position as a sidekick and a competent coach. When Kobe has won a championship he has had either Shaq (at his peak the most dominant center of my lifetime) or Gasol (currently a top 5 power forward in the prime of his career) along with excellent role players and the most accomplished coach in the game Phil Jackson.

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Diet Cokehead
posted 1:56a, 05/18/10



LA would murder Boston.

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Yeah...similar to 2008

[This message has been edited by David_Puddy (edited 5/18/2010 9:07a).]

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Gasol (currently a top 5 power forward...

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Gasol is good, but top 5?

Garnett
Duncan
Bosh
Stoudamire
Nowitzki
Boozer
Aldridge

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Gasol is good, but top 5?

Garnett
Duncan
Bosh
Stoudamire
Nowitzki
Boozer
Aldridge

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Yes, right now in 2010 Gasol is a better player than Bosh, Stoudamire, Boozer, and Aldridge. If you watch these games Gasol is working people right now, he's got incredible game.

Calvin, if if's and but's were candy and nuts...you put old guys - talented though they may be -- on your team, you have to deal with the consequences. Two weeks ago, everyone had written Boston off.

Kobe scored 40 in essentially three quarters with a myriad of nagging injuries after not practicing for a week...LeBron is at home because he quit on his team because one of his teammate's was banging his mom.

Kobe has brought it for 14 years, LeBron for 7. I consider 14 better. And Steve Nash has twice as many MVP's as both Kobe and Shaq. Who do you think history will shine a more favorable light on?

Right now LeBron is the king of the regular season -- some of that is his doing and some of that is his management. Sure he could end up better, but that's on him to get more mature and improve his game like Kobe has.

I don't disagree that Boston will give L.A. all it wants, but to assume Boston will whip L.A.'s ass is as ignorant as it is ridiculous. If L.A. didn't choke away a 20-plus point lead Game 4 in 2008, that series goes 7 -- and that was with Allen, KG, and Pierce all two years younger.

Anybody that says that Kobe is "clearly" better then Lebron is an idiot, and likely victim to a recency effect after watching the Celts/Cavs series.

Kobe is a better shooter, is more fortified mentally, and plays on a better team. That's about all he's got on LBJ.

Fact is the two of them are in their own echelon atop the NBA.

If I had to choose between the two I'd take Lebron. All he needs is one dominant post player to keep the defense honest, something Bryant had had every year he's been successful.

Holy sheet, I agree 100% with a Judge post

I think Lebron is a phenomenal talent, but perhaps his method of play is not most conducive to winning. Lebron is unmatched in the open court and with the ball in his hands coming off a pick and roll. However, I feel like he dominates the ball and doesn't lend to having the teammates around him create scoring opportunities. I think he makes you want to just surround him with 3-point shooters and other role players, because how could he share the ball? Obviously, he's a willing passer -- but he still controls almost every possession. The Cavs were actually more efficient when Mo Williams was working against the Celtics. I think Lebron needs to be better off the ball and he needs to get a post-up game. Remember the olympics when he played with other teammates who could create their own shot? He was outshined by Kobe and Carmelo and even Wade for much of the trip. I dont' think a team that has one guy controlling the ball can win the championship against elite defenses like the Celtics and the former Spurs who could scheme all day long against that one person.

Its funny how LeBron needs what Kobe can't win without. Isn't this hypocritical? Kobe sucks b/c he's won with some players around him, yet that's the excuse for LeBron not winning.

Its also funny how many people say Jordan's better than Kobe because he has more rings, yet no one's allowed to say Kobe's better than LeBron because of the rings.