Per ESPN radio. Probably nothing relevant, but figured I'd share with the slow traffic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/27/sports/basketball/27draft.html

I really hope this isn't a huge conspiracy to get deluxe_aggie's hopes up, only to have them dashed... haha

James-Bosh-Rose would be a great top 3, and Luol Deng and Noah are also solid players. However, since none of them seem to be good outside shooters, would that be a huge weakness?

[This message has been edited by flnk06 (edited 6/27/2010 2:55p).]

Outside shooting would be a concern, but that lineup would be so nasty you probably wouldn't need a lot of help from 3-point land. The Bulls may end up trading Deng if they get James and they could look for a long distance shooter that way. I know this is just a pipe dream, but it would be stunning if they could sign James & Joe Johnson and then do a sign & trade with Deng and some other pieces to Toronto for Bosh.

If the Bulls get Johnson, Lebron and Bosh, I might need a few minutes alone...

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I might need a few minutes alone...

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like 2 minutes amiright

Rose-Johnson-LBJ-Bosh-Noah wins the next 5 rings, no? The obvious objection is there's only one basketball, is there enough shots to go around and so forth, but doubt that'd be a problem. I could see LeBron putting up at 27-8-12 with that crew easy.

If it's just Bron Bron and Bosh, what if they went and got Korver to fill a Steve Kerr-like role? Great shooter off the bench.

If it happens, never again doubt Worldwide Wes ('We're going to Chicago, and Bosh is coming too.')



[This message has been edited by funky07time (edited 6/28/2010 12:32a).]

There's no way they'll get all three (LBJ, Bosh, JJ). I do see LeBron and Bosh together in Chicago though.

Nobody out there is going to be willing to take Deng's contract after they land those two, especially after the Hinrich trade.

I see Johnson in New York with Stoudemire joining either him or Wade in Miami.

I could see Ray Allen going to Chicago for less $$ to try and redeem himself for his abortion of a Finals (save Game 2 of course).

Well, I know it's about the all mighty dollar, but I wouldn't want to go somewhere and be compared to Jordan. Rose, Lebron, and Bosh is something MJ never had, and he still did more without. If Lebron wants to be up there with the greats he needs to put his team on his back when it counts and win. If he goes to Chicago with those guys or Miami with Wade he will NEVER have to put a team on his back because those other players have the potential to do it themselves as well when needed.

In saying all of this why wouldn't he want to go play with Wade or Bosh and Rose. I would want to dominate as well and win as many as he could, but if he plays with all of those weapons he will never be compared to Jordan.

Larry Bird and Magic Johnson both played with 2 or 3 other players on their respective teams that were all probably top 25 players in the league at the time. Hell, Bill Russell did as well if you want to go back even further.

I think you are grossly underrating what a Championship ring or 2 does to a player's legacy in the NBA.

MJ had Pippen, one of the best players in the league and a top 50 guy.

the fact that he quit on his original team in his last playoff series and then left them high and dry will still be left on his legacy..

he had the chance to bring a championship to his hometown where they havent won one since the 60's and he couldnt get the job done...

27-19-10 has to be the best game a player who 'quit' on his team has had ever.

If you are talking about Game 5, great players have done this from time to time to make a point. Kobe did it this season in OKC... he's done it in the past as well. Jordan did it before he started winning titles too. Some teams 'get' that point... others don't. If Lebron leaves the Cavs and goes to a team that wins multiple titles, you are going to be shocked by how quickly everybody forgets about all of that.

Championships in the NBA generally makes you just a 'champion'... everything else gets forgotten about unless you really mess up a lot and often. Fact is, Lebron doesn't care about what internet posters with too much time on their hands think about him... he cares about his perception worldwide. Globally, nobody cares or will listen to anything else after if his name is preceded by Finals MVP or NBA Champion.

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 6/28/2010 7:22p).]

"MJ had Pippen, one of the best players in the league and a top 50 guy."

Pippen rode Jordan's back. What the hell did he do after MJ left? What did he do when he went to houston and got a big contract. Nothing.

Without Bird, those "great players" would have never been thought of as great. Put Parrish, Mchale, Ainge, Johnson on any average team and they look just like the other players...average. Bird made EVERYONE around him better. That team had great chemistry.

Hell, put Bosh and Lebron on the Mavs and Dirk would become a legend with rings. I'm saying that people get overrated based on the team they play on. Garnett was viewed as a guy who couldn't get over the hump. Then he joins Allen and Pierce and Rondo and what do you know he is now a ring holder. Amare will not put up the numbers when he is away from Nash. Nash made him look like a stud that he isn't.

Jordan did it with far less which will separate him from ALL others

Jordan did make pippen better, but he was a pretty good player, much, much better than anyone James has currently.

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Pippen rode Jordan's back. What the hell did he do after MJ left? What did he do when he went to houston and got a big contract. Nothing.

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That's not fair to Pippen. Without Jordan in 93-94 he averaged a 22-9-6-3 and led the Bulls to the 2nd round. 94-95 (Jordan came back for the last 17 games and wasn't in MJ form), he put up 21-8-5-3. Pretty damn good, especially with a supporting cast of Grant, Kukoc, Armstrong, Kerr, Perdue, Harper, Longley, etc.

By the time he went to Houston, he was 33 and on the downside of his career.

Kukoc, Pippen, Grant/Rodman, and Kerr/Paxson weren't exactly a bag of balls...some of them may have been slightly one-dimensional but they were damn good at that one dimension. They knew their role and executed it well.

Scottie was absolutely one of the best defensive forwards of the 90's...Grant was a fundamentally sound player on both ends...Rodman was arguably the best rebounder of the 90's...Kerr/Paxson could shoot the lights out. That second three-peat group of Bulls had three tremendous defenders on the court most of the time. Jackson has turned out to not be too shabby a coach either.

I can still remember Paxson throwing dagger after dagger during the Bulls first title run against the Lakers. This is when people started publicly espousing the philosophy of getting a jump shooter to go with a penetrator that required a double-team.

Jordan was an incredible player and, yes, the best ever. But to compare what LeBron had in Cleveland to what Jordan had in Chicago is ridiculous.

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 6/29/2010 9:40a).]

So, Pippen played for a team that got bounced in a lock out shortened season and then he helped take Portland to the playoff and lost in a game 7 to the Shaq-lead Lakers? This after an incredible amount of regular season and playoff minutes on the way to many championships.

That does seem like a whole lotta nothing.

He was a must-have player for both Dream Teams. The man was a lock down defender and could do anything on the court.

So who would Lebron be teaming up with? Bosh? he has really done a lot. Rose? he has a ton of rings too. What have Johnson, Stoudemire, Boozer, or any other potential Lebron teammate done that Scottie didn't (besides wade, which is an understandable argument)?

Lebron has had one teammate who was an all star, one guy. He didn't even have great role players around him.

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Jordan did it with far less which will separate him from ALL others

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The one season that the Bulls were completely without Jordan (1993-1994), they won 55 regular season games and made it to the second round of the playoffs. In other words, when Pippen was in his prime and doing it without Jordan, the Bulls team was pretty damn good. Saying otherwise is just ignorance.

Meanwhile, if you removed Lebron from the Cavs, the Ohio State basketball message board would probably be in a tizzy right now that the Cavs just nabbed them a franchise player in the Draft. I have no doubts that that team without Lebron would have no less than the 5th most lottery balls in the Draft Lottery.

Same goes for Bird and Magic. Calling McHale, Parrish, and ESPECIALLY Dennis Johnson just average players without Bird is almost as ridiculous as saying Jordan played with nothing.

I suppose Worthy and Kareem wouldn't have been **** without Magic too.

Jeez man, you are reaching and you know it.

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 6/29/2010 12:30p).]

I'm not saying Pippen wasn't a good player, but Jordan carried his team and he refused to lose. Bird and Magic were very similar players. Today's players are a bunch of money hungry whiny pansies. When the going gets tough they blame someone else and when the going is good they take full credit. I'm saying that James hasn't reached the point where he can put a team on his back. You anti Mavs guys say Dirk is the reason for the Mavs lack of success and that he isn't tough enough to lead his team. So why do we give Lebron a pass?

If Dirk went and played with Lebron and Bosh and won 4 rings would you say that he was a stud?

My point is that players sometimes get overhyped because of who they play with. Yes, Mchale, Bird, Johnson, Ainge were all good players but they looked much better when Bird was around them.

Jerry Rice is a hall of fame reciever but he had Montana and Young throwing to him. If Jerry Rice plays for Detroit his whole career does he look as good...no

Amare will not look as good if he leaves Nash.

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Pippen rode Jordan's back. What the hell did he do after MJ left?

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Jordan didn't win jack without Pippen.

Pippen played exactly one full season without Jordan in his prime. What did Pippen do?
22 points
9 rebounds
6 assists
3 steals
1 block
55 wins
Took the Eastern Conference Champion Knicks to 7 games

That's a pretty damn good season for a guy who just lost the greatest player ever. 55 wins and a 7 game series against the conference championship? Plus 22/9/6/3/1 are amazing numbers.

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What did he do when he went to houston and got a big contract. Nothing.

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Dude's career was basically over by that point.

What point do most people agree that wing players are basically done. 1000 NBA games.

When Pippen signed with Houston, he had already played 1011 games. Plus he played with Dream Team 1 and Dream Team 2.

Pippen basically ran the point for Chicago. He brought the ball down the court and set Jordan up or fed Jordan in the blocks. The famous point-forward. In addition to that, he was every bit the defensive stopper that Bruce Bowen was. He is one of the best perimeter defenders who ever played the game. Only two players ever have more All-Defense first team selections: Gary Payton and Michael Jordan.


You, like many other people, vastly underrate Pippen because he played with Jordan. But he showed that he could hold his own in 93-94. Pippen wasn't the pure scorer that most of your stars like Kobe or Jordan are, but he did absolutely everything else great. Terrific ball handler and passer, one of the best perimeter defenders ever, great rebounder for his size...

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Kukoc, Pippen, Grant/Rodman, and Kerr/Paxson weren't exactly a bag of balls...some of them may have been slightly one-dimensional but they were damn good at that one dimension. They knew their role and executed it well.

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Having one-dimensional players isn't necessarily bad. You NEED those players if you have a good enough coach to utilize them.
Phil Jackson and Gregg Pop are good enough, and that is why each of their teams are littered with those one-dimensional players.

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You anti Mavs guys say Dirk is the reason for the Mavs lack of success and that he isn't tough enough to lead his team. So why do we give Lebron a pass?

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Because Dirk has had a million times more talent and better coaching that Bron.

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Amare will not look as good if he leaves Nash.

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No doubt Nash and DAntoni have helped Amare a lot, but Amare did muster 20 and 9 in his second season without Nash.

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You anti Mavs guys say Dirk is the reason for the Mavs lack of success and that he isn't tough enough to lead his team. So why do we give Lebron a pass?

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Because Dirk's proven he isn't enough. Dirk's a great player, but the Mavs have pissed away lots of opportunities with him at the helm. He's had at LEAST 9 teams MUCH better than Lebron's in Cleveland.

Lebron on the other hand has never had a supporting cast that would even come close to sniffing the playoffs without him. Management in Cleveland is pissing away his prime by trying to nickel and dime to build teams around him... that's how he ended up with Antawn Jamison last season and not Amare Stoudemire. List of players the Cavs have brought in to be Lebron's 2nd banana for a title run: Shaq 4 seasons past his prime, Ben Wallace, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison... as a fan, would you be satisfied if ANY of those guys were the Mav's 2nd best player? Yeah... I wouldn't either. They let a legit star get away for nothing when Carlos Boozer walked and instead of getting an experienced proven coach to coach him, they brought in Mike Brown. I give Lebron a pass because, if you look at the history, the Cavs would likely be LA Clipper-like over the past 7 seasons if they didn't get lucky... just bad decision after bad decision.

I don't blame Lebron for wanting to leave Cleveland. Aside from drafting him, they've been a joke of a franchise. And maybe Lebron DID pout a little bit about the crap sandwich he's been dealt, but you know what? Lots of the great ones do... Jordan has, Kobe has, Garnett did... but can you blame them? As a fan of good basketball, I approve of good players wanting to and campaigning for going to good franchises.

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 6/29/2010 8:16p).]

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Management in Cleveland is pissing away his prime by trying to nickel and dime to build teams around him

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you just lost all credibility with a quote like that..

lebron knows the cavs have paid the price to win..having one of the NBA's top three payrolls over the last three seasons..and paying gobs into the luxury tax...lebron was also consulted before the team made deals for shaq and jamison..

if you want to talk about franchises that nickel and dime..i suggest you look at the front-runner in the lebron sweepstakes as suggested in the title of this thread..jerry reinsdorf did it to jordan and he's been doing it ever since he left...