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what happens if wade starts having injury issues again?

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I know. I'm already saying I think Chicago was the more prime place if winning really is priority #1. My "youth" comment is somewhat directed at DW's health. He's no spring chicken and with a significant history.

Why was Chicago the better choice??? NOt one player in Chicago is better than the Miami 3....Don't give me that complete team BS. Miami will have no trouble signing role players along side these 3.

jeter - arod is a different story. jeter already had 3 rings. wade has one. and no one that played with wade is even on the team anymore. so wade will have mario chalmers trust as a go to guy but thats about it. the jeter core of pettite, rivera, posada etc. had played with him and still play with him to know he is the clubhouse leader

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Why was Chicago the better choice??? NOt one player in Chicago is better than the Miami 3....Don't give me that complete team BS. Miami will have no trouble signing role players along side these 3.

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If you don't want the answer, then why did you ask the question?

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Doug - that's exactly my point...he sacrificed the "chosen-one" status, the undisputed MVP, the go-to-guy, a city that loved him and millions in order to win championships. You hear it all day everyday, the greats are defined by rings not season MVP's.

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but he still wants to be known as the chosen one, King James. you can't have the title without the responsibility and it doesn't seem he's interested in dropping the title. the greats are not just defined by rings, they're defined by how they won them. they're defined by being the best players on the best teams. Kevin McHale is a HoFer, but he was never the best player on his championship teams, so while he's a highly regarded player and probably a top 20 or 30 player, he's not Larry Bird. And that's fine, but Kevin McHale didn't go around calling himself the chosen one either.

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Piggy back??? Give me a break. Wade has won one championship with Shaq. If lebron went to the Lakers and played behind Kobe that would be piggy backing.......

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one more than Lebron won with Shaq. and yes, I know shaq still had some gas in the tank with wade, but wade was the undisputed reason they won. congrats though, you picked the one player who would have been even more obviously piggy backing. doesn't negate the point though.

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And again, I challenge anybody to name me an NBA team where just one super star led his team to a championship.

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Detroit had none (both recently, as well as the late 80's pistons). SA won their first title with TD and a very aging DR. Houston won their titles because of Hakeem...Drexler was ultimately very much second banana. I guess it depends on your definition of superstar, but I don't think guys like Pau Gasol are superstars. they're all stars. you generally need a hierarchy with one guy as the "leader". wade's that guy, it looks like.

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Detroit had none (both recently, as well as the late 80's pistons)

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Whoa there, young man. The late 80's Pistons had no super stars?

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Miami will have no trouble signing role players along side these 3.

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Dude, they have 5 players right now. You have to have 12 for a roster. No trouble? Yeah I guess no trouble if the big 3 are going to take big pay cuts. You can't just have NBADL scrubs come in and fill out your roster in this situation. You will need people who can actually contribute at some point. Role players and bench players are vital to winning in the playoffs.

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yeah, i'm sure the bulls were not going to sign lebron because rose didn't like him. ummm, ok.

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nobody said that. but if rose isn't welcoming him like dwade was, you can't see why lebron might perceive that as a strike against chicago?

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None of this changes the fact that Lebron is stil the most skilled basketball player that ever lived

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disagree.

Jordan is the most talented ever.

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Piggy back??? Give me a break. Wade has won one championship with Shaq.

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Shaq happened to be there to witness Wade win that championship.

Shaq averaged 13 and 10 against Dallas.
Wade averaged 35 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals and 1 block against Dallas.

Lebron is NOT the most skilled player that ever lived. As a matter of fact, he doesn't have a LOT of skills, like a back-to-the-basket game, ability to play off the ball, disciplined-man-to-man defense in all situations, etc. Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant are twice as skilled. Lebron is just one of the biggest athletic freaks ever in basketball.

Larry Bird had help
Magic Had Help
Kareem had help
etc... etc... etc...

You guys underestimate the talent that MJ had on the Bulls, as well as other Greats.

Pippen was probably the third best player in the league at that time, behind Karl Malone. That team went to the eastern conference finals and lost in seven games the first year after MJ's first retirement. The in '95-'96 when MJ came back they added Rodman to the team. So you can't say MJ was not surronded by talent.

So Shaq had nothing to do with Kobe's first three championships? What about the talent they needed to add to get back over the hump in '08?

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Pippen was probably the third best player in the league at that time, behind Karl Malone.

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Wow. I'm a big Pippen defender and don't believe he gets his due.

However, Hakeem, Robinson and Shaq were the three next best players during Jordan's run. No way is Pippen or Malone better then those three.

GS +1

It doesn't matter if Lebron's not "the man" anymore. These are unselfsih players and I think both Wade and Bron will play whatever role they need to inorder to win on a night by night basis.

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You guys underestimate the talent that MJ had on the Bulls, as well as other Greats.

Pippen was probably the third best player in the league at that time, behind Karl Malone. That team went to the eastern conference finals and lost in seven games the first year after MJ's first retirement. The in '95-'96 when MJ came back they added Rodman to the team. So you can't say MJ was not surronded by talent.

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Disagree with Pippen being 3rd best, but absolutely correct that the Bulls had a lot of talent even without MJ.

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It doesn't matter if Lebron's not "the man" anymore

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Sure it does if he wants to be KING James and be compared to the all time legends.

King Wade
Queen James
Prince Bosh

& the Serfs

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Detroit had none (both recently, as well as the late 80's pistons)


Whoa there, young man. The late 80's Pistons had no super stars?

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sorry, I was stating that with the billups led ones, and then threw in the late 80's because they had one superstar. I should have made that more clear, but it still fit the criteria AgLandMan was asking for (teams that won with only one superstar). point was, that there have been plenty of teams that have won without 2 superstars. and you really have to define what a superstar is. in my mind, Pau Gasol is not a superstar. a superstar is someone who can carry his team and get them into and do well in the playoffs. The only teams that have had 2 superstars and won were the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Jordan/Pippen Bulls, arguably the Duncan/Manu Spurs (though I'd argue that Manu falls more into the Gasol camp...very good player, but not a superstar), etc.

LBJ and Wade are unquestionably superstars who have the capability of leading their teams on their own. this doesn't work nearly as often as has been asserted (especially when those two superstars play similar positions that require them to have the ball a good portion of the time). Shaq and Kobe did very different things (though both did require the ball a lot). Pippen deferred to Jordan and did all the little things Jordan didn't need to do. etc. etc.

either way, sorry for the confusion on the pistons comment.

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Disagree with Pippen being 3rd best, but absolutely correct that the Bulls had a lot of talent even without MJ.

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if Lebron takes a back seat and takes the pippen role (focuses on defense, rebounding, passing, etc.) then it could work, I'll give you that. but that's a big if, considering Lebron has spent the past 7 years being the focal point of the entire team. is he just going to stop doing that? He may, and the team may be better for it. but the Heat are still going to need to put some talent around them. Jordan couldn't win it on his own and Lebron/Wade won't either. They need shooters (Bulls always had a dead eye shooter who could hit a wide open shot), they need tough down low players (Bosh is not big/strong enough to be able to handle things down low on his own, he'll need a Kendrick Perkins type, which isn't that easy to find) and they'll need at least another couple role players to fill in the gaps for whatever else that team is missing.

a lot of this depends on what players they can convince to come and play for next to nothing. no doubt there will be a couple ring-sniffers that will take little money, but they this team certainly isn't a championship ready team without a few of those guys.

OR







You're righ, the man is a COWARD.

[This message has been edited by CalvinMurphy (edited 7/9/2010 1:37p).]

I would say that Kobe (as much as I ahte the guy), won the championship this year without lots of other superstars. I mean Gasol, Odom, Fisher, yes there is good talent, but they aren't megstars like Bosh and Wade. That's the difference. The great ones need help, but don't need megastar help.

Also, consider Duncan. I'll give you the first two with Robinson, but the second two were void of huge, mega talent. Parker and Ginobli are certainly good players, but Hall of Famers, questionable at best.

The truely great ones don't need other great ones for help.

and even then, Robinson was a shell of himself. He was basically a 17-10 kinda player...good, but not an elite player. Duncan was the unquestioned leader and best player by far on those early spurs champion teams.

Duncan was the only player on the 03 Spurs that averaged over 15 points per game in the playoffs. The only Spur that averaged over 6.6 rebounds per game. The only Spur that averaged over 3.5 assists per game.

Robinson averaged 7.8 and 6.6 in the 03 playoffs. He wasn't a 17 and 10 player at that point anymore.