You draft the Dream, you don't have to wait for him to finish his military service.

I'd draft Robinson. What he did on and off the court for the city of San Antonio is hugely important.

d-rob is my favorite as well. i remember staying up wayyyy late when they were playing portland in the playoffs...didn't have cable, so i was listening to it on the radio all night. killed me when we lost

anyway, i have him and manu at the top of my spurs list all time. for different reasons, but equally awesome spurs

Robinson was the most athletic big man to ever play the game-

consider he didn't grow up playing ball and was only 6 foot 6 when he entered the Naval Academy-

he hit a growth spurt in college

he led the fing Naval Academy to the Dance

The man has an engineering degree, did 2 years of military service that cost him millions of dollars

He was a freak of nature that almost had his career ended by a thumb injury and ended prematurely by his back problems

Would I take a Robinson over Akeem- hell yes

If you want to compare athletic 7-footers, Hakeem isn't in the conversation. Even though he was listed as 7', it is commonly known that he was actually only 6'9" to 6'10". He beat all the other centers in the league with his quickness.

So I guess you can say that David Robinson is the most athletic 7 footer.

Hakeem was still the better player though.

I guess Hakeem didn't actually get a 30/30 that night but that was how I remembered it. It was at least 25/25. He was a beast.

I don't know that I buy he could score 70 though because he didn't have the outside shooting game Robinson did and the ability to score on the fast break as much as Robinson. Hakeem did it in the paint or on short jumpers for the most part. His game was more suited for rebounding and defense, though he certainly could score. He was more like Tim Duncan and that's certainly not an insult.

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good points, all. As crazy as it seems, early on in his career I think DRob was the more "explosive" scorer. But Hakeem had the better footwork and an endless array of low post moves. DRob tended to be more clumsy on the block. He was much better finishing at the rim in the half-court or in transition. If you slowed him down with a body in the lane, a lot of times he didn't have the footwork to react like Hakeem did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4uXlRGAF0&feature=related

end of discussion :-)

:47 second mark FYI



"I'm looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. I'm just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland."


[This message has been edited by TxRebel007 (edited 11/23/2010 11:10p).]

dreams' link to terrorism?? If not nothing but libel on your part. or a butt hurt mavs, or slur fan.

[This message has been edited by XIaggie (edited 11/23/2010 11:55p).]

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end of discussion

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Some of you are having a different discussion than what was initially brought up. Why not go start your own thread and circle jerk to Hakeem's effigy over there.

Hakeem was better. Nobody in their right mind would dispute that. Now go yank your chicken while the rest of us can discuss which player was more "athletic". Showing us a 3-minute Youtube video with a few clips from a single playoff series that went 6 games doesn't necessarily end that discussion.

Case in point for those of you who still don't get it: Blake Griffin is 10X more athletic than just about any PF in the league, including Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan is the best PF of all time and was/is 10X player Griffin will likely ever turn out to be. The two are not mutually inclusive.

Get it now?

Hakeem's terrorism link:

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- A mosque established and funded by basketball star Hakeem Olajuwon gave more than $80,000 to charities the government later determined to be fronts for the terror groups al-Qaida and Hamas, according to financial records obtained by The Associated Press.

Olajuwon told the AP he had not known of any links to terrorism when the donations were made, prior to the government's crackdown on the groups, and would not have given the money if he had known.

"There is no way you can go back in time," Olajuwon said in a telephone interview from Jordan, where he is studying Arabic. "After the fact, now they have the list of organizations that are banned by the government."

A Treasury Department spokeswoman, Molly Millerwise, declined to discuss Olajuwon's contributions but said, "In many cases donors are being unwittingly misled by the charities."

Federal law enforcement officials said they were not investigating Olajuwon, a 7-foot center born in Nigeria who played 17 seasons for the Houston Rockets of the National Basketball Association before retiring in 2002.

Olajuwon, who became a U.S. citizen in 1993, was known as "The Dream" and won the NBA's Most Valuable Player award in 1994, when he led the Rockets to the first of back-to-back championships.

The Olajuwon-founded Islamic Da'Wah Center gave more than $60,000 in 2000 and $20,000 in 2002 to the Islamic African Relief Agency, the center's tax records show.

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For all the talk about how much more "athletic" David Robinson was over Hakeem Olajuwan, it sure didn't translate to the court. Looking at their career stats (pts, rebs, blks, steals, assists) there isn't one stat the the "supremely more athletically gifted" David Robinson has on Hakeem...not one. You'd think that he would, but I guess basketball is more than walking on your hands or having a 28 inch waist...or maybe that's just me.

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The dream only won it because MJ got bored and played a little baseball.

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And who did the Rockets beat in the Western Conference Finals to get to those Jordan-less championships? It's funny how you knock Dream for only winning because MJ got bored and "retired", but I'm pretty sure that the Spurs started their championship run in 98-99 while Jordan retired then again?

But don't let a thing like sense and facts mess up a good argument...

quote:

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Case in point for those of you who still don't get it: Blake Griffin is 10X more athletic than just about any PF in the league, including Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan is the best PF of all time and was/is 10X player Griffin will likely ever turn out to be. The two are not mutually inclusive.

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No he's not...

[This message has been edited by prepyag03 (edited 11/24/2010 12:12p).]

[This message has been edited by prepyag03 (edited 11/24/2010 12:49p).]

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I hope the Rockets never have success again just based on their continual need to shat on David Robinson every time he is mentioned. This thread has nothing to do with Hakeem and inevitably, here come the Rockets fans.

Here's to their continued failure in the Western conference.

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So houston fans "shat" on Robinson because they won't call him the best ever? Being a little dramatic don't ya think?

quote:

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Now go yank your chicken while the rest of us can discuss which player was more "athletic".

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Did you NOT go look at the :47 mark like I stated?





"I'm looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. I'm just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland."

The Spurs won in '03 with Jordan having played that season.

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No other power foward is anywhere near Duncan on the list of best PFs of all time.

Duncan has 4 more championships than the second, third and fourth best PFs of all time combined.

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Oh really? so by that logic than Robert Horry is actually a better PF than Tim Duncan, since he has 7 rings and Duncan only has 4. In that regard I guess Dennis Rodman is a better PF than Duncan too since he has 5 championships to Duncan's 4. So that puts Duncan 3rd behind those 2 right?

oh, and never mind that Karl Malone has more points (2nd all-time leading scorer), more pts, assists, and steals per game than Duncan as well. But I see what you're saying...(sarcasm)

You guys that use championships don't really think that argument through do you? I mean by using championship as the measure of a player you're basically saying that Horry is one of the best players to ever play in the NBA and Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are both better QB's than Dan Fonts and Dan Marino. I mean to each his own, but come on man...

^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!



"I'm looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. I'm just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland."

quote:

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You guys that use championships don't really think that argument through do you?

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It's not that black and white. Duncan is the best because of his championships AND because of his elite status in the league. Rodman and Horry weren't franchise players with monster career stats like Tim. Sure, Malone has superior stats, but what does he have to show for it?

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It's not that black and white. Duncan is the best because of his championships AND because of his elite status in the league. Rodman and Horry weren't franchise players with monster career stats like Tim. Sure, Malone has superior stats, but what does he have to show for it?

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In a team sport like basketball to even use championships as a criteria makes little to no sense, just like using wins for a pitcher or QB as a measure of there value makes no sense. Karl Malone had elite status, had all the individual awards (defensive all NBA teams, all star games, MVP's, etc...) has better stats than Duncan over all, is the 2nd all-time leading scorer in the History of the NBA, but because he didn't win a championship he's not the best? like I said before, makes no sense.

But like I said before, to each his own.

NOTE: I'm not a fan of any NBA team, but I am a fan of players, and Duncan is in fact one of the best PF's to ever play, but he's not the best. Malone would dominate Duncan one on one, statistically and on the court...jmtc

[This message has been edited by prepyag03 (edited 11/24/2010 4:17p).]

You can ask any NBA player which he would rather want, an MVP or finals MVP. Every single one of them would take the latter.

And team championships absolutely matter. He anchored argueably one of the best defenses ever for over a decade and made his teammates better players. That's why he is so great.



[This message has been edited by ItalAggie (edited 11/24/2010 4:32p).]

And please stop trying to compare basketball to baseball and football. That's what makes no sense.

Wow Prepy. You obviously don't know **** about basketball.

Malone vs Duncan
PPG: Malone wins 25 to 21
RPG: Duncan wins 11.6 to 10.1
BPG: Duncan wins 2.3 to 0.8
PER: Duncan 25.0 to 23.9
MVP: Push 2 to 2
Finals MVP: Duncan 3 to 0
NBA Championships: Duncan 4 to 0
All-Star Games: Duncan 12 of 12 opportunities. Malone 13 of 17 opportunities.
All-NBA Teams: Duncan 13 of 13 opportunities. Malone 13 of 18 opportunities.
All-NBA Defense Teams: Duncan: 13 of 13 opportunities. Malone 4 of 18 opportunities.
Known Illegitimate ignored: Malone 2, Duncan 0

Last year, when Slam Magazine tried to rank the top 50 players of all time, Duncan was ranked 8th. Malone was ranked 18th.

Last year when Bleacher Report named the top 10 PFs of all time, they named Duncan #1.

In 2005, when ESPN had a panel of experts vote on the best Power Foward of all time, Tim Duncan won.


Tim Duncan is far and away the best power forward of all time, and no one else comes close. Anyone who says different has no clue what they are talking about.

oh I see, it's professor plum in the library with the candlestick. I can't argue with spurs fans that are blinded by their man crush for Tim Duncan that they can't see the 2nd leading scorer in the History of the NBA, that has a better ppg, apg, and spg better, is an inferior player.

I have the advantage of not having a team to cheer for that I can be objective. you fellas don't so this discussion was unfair for you from the beginning. For that I apologize

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Last year, when Slam Magazine tried to rank the top 50 players of all time, Duncan was ranked 8th. Malone was ranked 18th.

Last year when Bleacher Report named the top 10 PFs of all time, they named Duncan #1.

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So Slam Magazine and the Bleacher Report must be run by Spurs fans.

Hell even ESPN must be run by Spurs fans.

[This message has been edited by Sooner Born (edited 11/24/2010 8:31p).]

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I can't argue with spurs fans that are blinded by their man crush for Tim Duncan that they can't see the 2nd leading scorer in the History of the NBA, that has a better ppg, apg, and spg better, is an inferior player.

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Tell me something. What stats are more important for the power forward position: Assists and steals OR rebounds and blocks?

Yeah, rebounds and blocks. And Malone was a subpar rebounder AND he didn't spend a significant portion of his career playing side by side with one of the league's leading rebounders.

Malone was a better scorer. Duncan completely dominates Malone on defense and is one of the best defensive power forwards of all time.

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I have the advantage of not having a team to cheer for that I can be objective. you fellas don't so this discussion was unfair for you from the beginning.

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Because you don't have a favorite team doesn't make you objective or unbiased.

What did you do tonight? I was paid to be a journalist at an NBA game. That's my job. I'm paid to be objective for a living.

Duncan was a better rebounder than Malone.
Duncan was a better defender than Malone.
Duncan won more Championships than Malone.
Duncan didn't choke in the clutch like Malone.
Duncan has been named to more NBA All-Defense teams than anyone else ever. No forward or center has been named to more All-Defense First teams.

Sure, Malone had a lot of points. He was a very good scorer.

And Malone had more steals - but then again - EVERYONE had more steals then than now that they have tightened up the rules. In 1989, 17 teams had over 700 steals and the average number of steals on a team was 745. Last year, only one team had more than the league average in 1989. Only two teams had over 700 steals (Golden State and Boston with 701.)

So either you are wrong and ESPN, Bleacher Report, SLAM Magazine and all these other respected news organizations are Spurs homers, or you don't know what the hell you are talking about. My money is on ESPN and SLAM, not some dumbass on Texags.

This thread is ridiculous. Everyone who knows basketball will acknowledge that the Spurs had/have the greatest center in league history, the greatest forward in league history, the greatest point guard in league history, and if not for some stat padding by complicit NBA officials, the greatest two guard in league history.

Still waiting to see a link where Hakeem support terrrisom??? Don't you think he would've been arrested or charged by the US gvt if he supported terror??

Like I said you're a butthurt slur fan...san mexico only got good because they tanked the whole season to get the number 1 draft pick which was duncan...this is common knowledge.

"slur"? WTF are we in grade school again. It's like tourettes syndrome with you guys. When David Robinson is mentioned you just spew out Hakeem stats unwittingly. Robinson helped build one of the best franchises in all of sports. Hakeem helped a 2 year run with the current best team out. Robinson is STILL out there building the team and the city up. Hakeem is paying suicide bombers. Sorry, I'll take DRob any day.

this thread comes down to Jesus vs allah-

i going with Jesus

quote:

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I have the advantage of not having a team to cheer for that I can be objective. you fellas don't so this discussion was unfair for you from the beginning. For that I apologize

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This is just awesome. Look, I watched the Mailman completely lose his **** and poop the bed when it mattered the most down the stretch WAY too much to even give him credence as being the best PF ever. Duncan destroys him hands down in the discussion of best ever. Statistically, Malone might have done more, but Duncan has brought home the championship 4 times for the Spurs.

I might give your argument a shrug of validity if Duncan only did it once, but he didn't. He brought home championships for the better part of a decade while Karl Malone put of Dominique Wilkins-like empty stats.

Robinson was amazing his first few seasons, then the burden of expectations exposed him a little, then injuries ended his reign as an elite payer by his early 30s.

Bob Petitt or Karl Malone is the best power forward of all-time, then Barkley, Garnett, Nowitzki, McHale.

Duncan is the 4th-5th best center of all-time (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Moses), and I don't see how he could crack the top 3 at this point.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 11/27/2010 4:15p).]