No, I'm not saying voters will look at those numbers, nor am I saying that he will or should win the MVP. But to say he is having a down year because his totals are down is not right.

I also think the voters don't just stare at stats to decide their vote.

[This message has been edited by keithd03 (edited 2/10/2011 9:54a).]

Bron - bounced from playoffs
Kobe - has won 5 titles
Dirk - bounced from playoffs
Garnett - won 1 title
Nash - bounced from playoffs
Duncan - won 2 titles

quote:

---

And none of them are the only all-star caliber player on their team that is winning at a 70 win/season rate when they play.

---

When they play. You get points off for being hurt. Ask Hakeem.

As for only all-star- do you really think that matters much to the voters? They care about success and stats. Dirk's stats just aren't there with the top stat guys in the league. And some of those stat guys are winning more than Dirk.

They sure didn't seem to care about how great Nash's teammates were or the DAntoni system when Nash got his two MVPs- with 2 all-star caliber teammates.

And it isn't like Dirk is carrying them alone. He has some very good players around him.

quote:

---

I also think the voters don't just stare at stats to decide their vote.

---

I think it influences a lot. And they aren't going to vote the best player on the 4th best team in the league that is putting up a paltry 22/7 the MVP.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 2/10/2011 10:11a).]

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 2/10/2011 10:12a).]

Lebron is the only MVP candidate I've seen that is winning more than Dirk.

*I haven't seen anyone from Boston or SA mentioned as a top 5 MVP candidate. Not saying they aren't deserving, just that I haven't seen them listed near the top of the race.
*If you look at games played by each player, I don't know if Lebron is acutally winning more than Dirk.

quote:

---

Bron - bounced from playoffs
Kobe - has won 5 titles
Dirk - bounced from playoffs
Garnett - won 1 title
Nash - bounced from playoffs
Duncan - won 2 titles

---

Like I said 6 of the last 7 MVPs went to players who had only been bounced from the playoffs. Soooo....

quote:

---

You get points off for being hurt. Ask Hakeem.

---

Hakeem didn't compete for more MVPs because his team didn't win enough total games those years when he missed a few games to injury. The one year he got the Rockets to an elite win level he got his MVP. It's really simple.

quote:

---

They sure didn't seem to care about how great Nash's teammates were or the DAntoni system when Nash got his two MVPs- with 2 all-star caliber teammates.

---

They noticed when Nash missed a few games that the team completely tanked, and that was a big factor for him. The Mavs without Dirk in January were getting beat so badly that it became completely unwatchable .

I still say the "look how his team performs when he isn't there" criterion is bunk.

There's no doubt Dirk is MVP of his team. Is he MVP of the league? No.

He deserves discussion but not another trophy.

They have to find some way to get him there, and it isn't by stats and it isn't by record. What else is there?

He's not in the top-10 in PER. He's not in the top-10 in scoring. He's a 7' PF who isn't even in the top-100 in rebound rate or blocks-per-48. He's #20 in 3p% and #16 FG%.

It appears to me that the only thing on Dirk's 2011 MVP resume is "his team is really good, but they suck without him".

Oh, and Ginobili's PER is not that far off from Dirks (22.4 vs 23.4) and Ginobili is on a better team.

[This message has been edited by MassAggie97 (edited 2/10/2011 1:28p).]

He was top 3 in scoring and PER in December before injury. He came back too early, and I think his stats will improve. But my argument isn't about stats - it's all about wins. If the Mavs fall short of a win threshold then Dirk will drop to 7-10 and no one will complain. I also forgot that the Celtics are reeling right now. There may only be 1 60 win team. Lots of time left.

quote:

---

I still say the "look how his team performs when he isn't there" criterion is bunk.

---

Then I don't want to hear about Cleveland going from a playoff team to losing a professional sports record 26 straight as being ANY kind of evidence about the player that Lebron James is.

quote:

---

Oh, and Ginobili's PER is not that far off from Dirks (22.4 vs 23.4) and Ginobili is on a better team.

---

If the perceived small difference in these numbers are indicative of anything, then they are also indicative of the similarities between Dirk and Bryant, Durant, Stoudemire, Gasol, etc etc.

[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 2/10/2011 3:14p).]

quote:

---

Then I don't want to hear about Cleveland going from a playoff team to losing a professional sports record 26 straight as being ANY kind of evidence about the player that Lebron James is.

---

You won't. Read my post earlier. I think that argument is stupid too.

I hope we can at least agree that the 2010-2011 Cavs have validated the 2009-2010 MVP that Lebron James won.

Again, for those who didn't read the whole thread, Shaq, Ilgauskas, and West are gone, and Verajao and Mo Williams have been injured for much of the season. There are a bunch of young and inexperienced players playing for a new head coach with a new system. Losing Lebron was obviously going to be bad for the Cavaliers, but had they not lost half their playing roster they'd have probably been a little better than what they are. Lebron was only a piece of the puzzle (albeit a big one).

Lebron's 09-10 statistics alone validated his MVP. He doesn't need the Cavs to suck for validation.

Lets not forget the morale boost that Gloria James gave the Cavs.