further proof today that the rudy gay trade was the worst since the richard jefferson trade.

it might even trump it.

I still can't believe they traded for battier. Gay would've been a superstar in houston alongside tmac and yao when they were healthy... Le Sigh...

That one year when they were healthy?

hindsight is always 20/20...

if you've ever heard carroll dawson speak about it, the rockets never intended to draft rudy gay. had the grizzlies not wanted him, the rockets were going to draft someone else (possibly thabo sefolosha...thank God that didn't happen). that's the thing rockets' fans seem to forget...RUDY GAY HAD ZERO CHANCE OF BEING A ROCKET.

at that time, the rockets thought they had their two superstars (yao and t-mac) and needed someone like battier...someone who would play defense (remember, JVG was the coach), could shoot reasonably well, and do all the little things you want your complementary players to do.

had the rockets known t-mac would flame out and yao wouldn't be able to stay on the court, they almost certainly would've been more interested in rudy gay. but like i said, hindsight's always 20/20.

What's Rudy Gay's playoff record, since he is a superstar?

Rudy Gay may have been a guy they could build around.

The Battier - Gay trade was awful forthe Rockets. Lets get old and mediocre.

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hindsight is always 20/20...

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i was at the rockets official draft party in the toyota center when they drafted him, and we all booed. there were about 5000 fans there, all of us booing loudly as we all shouted "we want gay!" The guy was a stud at uconn and showed he would be a franchise/borderline franchise type player to build around. It was blatantly obvious from the start.

Ive been on here blasting that trade since i found this board

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we all shouted "we want gay!"

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I was at Toyota Center that night too.

Rudy is at best a #2 player on a championship team...and to whoever said Sefolosha was a bad pick, I beg to differ...the kid might of not panned out to be worth it in the lottery, but he definitely fills out the young/athletic/decent shooter mold.

Seems to me if you're a team in Texas, you better draft a badass or unearth a gem, b/c otherwise you aren't going to get your #1, franchise player.

If anybody wants to gripe, it should be Mavs fans for letting the Dirk/Nash combo break up...that is a major what if.

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The guy was a stud at uconn and showed he would be a franchise/borderline franchise type player to build around. It was blatantly obvious from the start.

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obvious? at the time, people were openly questioning his intensity and work ethic. his defense was suspect at best. and you thought he'd be a good fit with jeff van gundy?

He was so good that his UConn team, the most talented team in years either before or after, lost to freaking George Mason in the regional finals.

The dude is not a winner, as evidenced by Memphis doing jack crap since choosing to build around him.

To be fair, he IS good, he just isn't a #1 player. Rudy would be awesome w/ a D-Will/Paul/Nash type PG beside him to get him the ball..a lot of the best players in the league don't play defense, especially when they're not good enough to carry a team.

I mean, when your role is defined as "score as often as possible", you're going to be lazy on defense and save your energy for offense.

I'm not defending him because the way I played basketball and the way I want to see it played is players going both ways, but I can see how getting drafted to a ****ty franchise and having to shoulder that load lends itself to being lazy on one end while trying to carry your team on the other.

It's amazing how much a team a player gets drafted to can affect the way they're seen/the way they play the game.

Rudy Gay is not the superstar that Kevin Durant.

But right now, he's the 2nd best SF in the West.

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Rudy Gay may have been a guy they could build around.

The Battier - Gay trade was awful forthe Rockets. Lets get old and mediocre.

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Because that is exactly what the Rockets were looking for at that time.

It turns out their plan didn't work out, but they were trying to do what would help them the most that season. The team was already built around tracy and Yao, and Battier was a better immediate fit.

Also, lets not forget we also dumped Stromile Swift in that deal.

Sorry, but any real Rockets fan knows that the Battier/Gay trade was a great trade when it was made.

The team as it stood at the time was anchored around Yao/Tracy. We were set at the wing and in the middle. What they needed was defense and leadership and Battier under Van Gundy was the perfect fit.

Keeping Rudy Gay would have made no sense for that team considering how they were constructed in 2006. Gay was also coming off an underwhelming college career. He was projected as a guy who was talented enough to be the number one pick, but his attitude and work ethic were less than stellar. Nobody would have seen him coming to his own the way he has the past couple of years.

That trade was made by taking into account the Rockets mid-2000's team chemistry, structure, and window of opportunity.

It was a great trade at the time. No one saw Yao and McGrady dropping off the radar THAT bad over the next few years.

^^^^ +1

(sigh) this thread was over after Jackie's post.

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if you've ever heard carroll dawson speak about it, the rockets never intended to draft rudy gay.

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Gay was picked 8.
9. Patrick OBryant
10. Mouhamed Sene
11. JJ Reddick
12 Hilton Armstrong
13. Thabo Sefolosha
14. Ronnie Brewer
15. Cedric Simmons
16. Rodney Carney
17. Shawne Williams
18. Oleksiy Pecherov
19. Quincy Douby
20. Renaldo Balkman
21. Rajon Rondo
22. Marcus Williams
23. Josh Boone
24. Kyle Lowery
25. Shannon Brown
26. Jordan Farmar
27. Sergio Rodriguez
28. Mo Ager
29. Mardy Collins
30. Joel Freeland

Unless the Rockets got out their crystal ball and got lucky by drafting Rondo, if they weren't going to draft Gay, there is a 100% chance that pick would have sucked ass. The only players in the second round worth noting are Boobie Gibson and Paul Millsap.

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and to whoever said Sefolosha was a bad pick, I beg to differ

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Me too. People always undervalue perimeter defenders because they generally don't have numbers that quantify their value. Look at all the great defensive teams of the past few years, and they all have on thing in common...a great perimeter defender. Boston (Rondo), Cleveland/Miami (Lebron), San Antonio (Bowen....and the Spurs have gotten progressively worse defensively since Bowen has been gone), OKC (Sefolosha), LA (Artest).

Great defenses need guys like Sefolosha to shut down the opposing team's SG/SF position, which is normally where the athletes are at. He's as important to the Thunder as anyone who isn't Durant.

[This message has been edited by MassAggie97 (edited 2/25/2011 9:08a).]

Don't disagree with what you are saying for the most part... but Artest hasn't been a very good perimeter defender in about 3 seasons.

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Sorry, but any real Rockets fan knows that the Battier/Gay trade was a great trade when it was made

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win

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all of us booing loudly as we all shouted "we want gay!"

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I bet you do want some gay

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Don't disagree with what you are saying for the most part... but Artest hasn't been a very good perimeter defender in about 3 seasons.

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Between Artest and Kobe they get the job done. The Lakers have better interior defense than most teams too, so they don't rely so much on their perimeter guys to shut anyone down....just keep them from spotting up and funnel them into the paint.

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Sorry, but any real Rockets fan knows that the Battier/Gay trade was a great trade when it was made.

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yeah, whatever you say man. Yeah, you know, i'm not a real rockets fan.

i have a right to voice my opinion, and i have always thought battier was an overrated player. The guy would be a bench player on a championship team, yet he was starting for the rockets and was exposed time after time against kobe in the playoffs, who would just go off on him

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The guy would be a bench player on a championship team

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He could have started for the 2003, 2005 and 2007 Spurs instead of Bowen and they probably would have won all three titles.

I disagree with that

I'm a big Battier fan, but there's no way he would have started over Bowen on those Spurs teams. Battier is a really good defender and all around player, but Bowen was elite defensively. While I'd probably give Battier a slight nod on the offensive end of the floor, that wouldn't have mattered much since Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan were/are all capable of filling it up offensively if need be. Bowen would play over Battier on those Spurs teams.

Bowen wasn't elite anymore in 07. The Spurs would have easily cruised to the title with either player starting.

I agree with and will give you 07 for sure... but 03 or 05? Give me Bowen over Battier.

Bowen was definitely a better defender. But I think Battier was smarter and much better all-around offensively. And everyone knows Battier is a nice guy, so he gets a pass for all the little annoyances that he does that Bruce did too that made Bruce a 'dirty' player.

Plus other teams not being able to play hack-a-bruce would be nice.

Let's not pretend Bowen and Battier play exactly the same and Battier only got away with it because he was 'nicer'. By all accounts and everything I've seen, Bowen's a pretty nice guy too. Straight up, Bowen WAS dirtier than Battier ever will be as a defender... and that's good for him. Annual player polls that constantly landed Bowen in the top 5 or so verifies this. I'd still take him over Battier because for a role player, give me guys who are elite at one thing over guys who are just ok at everything. Even on this Rocket's team, although Battier was capable of more offensively than Bowen was, he was never needed and therefore never utilized for anything more than a Bowen-like offensive role. With the fire-power San Antonio has with their Big 3, I'm pretty sure the same would be the case there.

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 2/26/2011 1:10p).]

Budinger is going off tonight! Granted it's NJ but not bad for first time full starter. Still gonna miss shanes leadership but this is so far so good

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Shane is a good defender and a smart guy, but he is no Bowen.

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Yeah, Battier doesnt stick his foot under people while they are shooting.