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Dirk is top 5. Unbelievable that a guy in the league 13 years is getting so much better in every facet of his game.

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Dirk isn't a top 5 player. He's top 10, but not top 5. he's not better than Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Howard, Rose, or Durant. That at best puts him at 7, and he's fighting it out w/ Mello for that that next spot, but he's not top ten at all.

Dirk is a top 5 player.

Dirk
Dirk
Dirk
Dirk
Dirk

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Dirk is a top 5 player.

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Who are you saying he's better than? Lebron? Wade? Howard? Rose? Durant? Kobe? There's 6 players right there...Lebron is Lebron, Wade is a Finals MVP, Kobe is one of the best players ever, Howard is the bes center in all of basketball, Rose is the youngest MVP in League history, and Durant won the scoring title. In fact, in this year's MVP voting he was voting 6th (outside of the top 5 btw) behind everyone but Wade...so please tell me which 2 Dirk is better than.


[This message has been edited by prepyag03 (edited 5/6/2011 1:45p).]

To be fair, most analysts have listed Dirk as the best player in the Lakers series. So he is currently better than Kobe who often hurts his team for than he helps it. All-time, Kobe is better, right now, Dirk is better.

The fact that these guys are all playing at an elite level makes this discussion pointless. Those of you upset about someone saying Dirk's a top 5 player just sound stupid.

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To be fair, most analysts have listed Dirk as the best player in the Lakers series. So he is currently better than Kobe who often hurts his team for than he helps it. All-time, Kobe is better, right now, Dirk is better.

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Lol, you're not serious are you? You're ready to dismiss Kobe as the better player after 2 games? Never mind the fact that Dirk finished BEHIND kobe in the MVP voting this year though right? I can't have a discussion with that kind of logic.

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The fact that these guys are all playing at an elite level makes this discussion pointless. Those of you upset about someone saying Dirk's a top 5 player just sound stupid.

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Actually, a grown man calling other stupid on a discussion board while adding nothing to the discussion at hand is...well you get the point.

[This message has been edited by prepyag03 (edited 5/6/2011 1:48p).]

Right now I would put him above Wade and Durant.

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Who are you saying he's better than? Lebron? Wade? Howard? Rose? Durant? Kobe? There's 6 players right there...Lebron is Lebron, Wade is a Finals MVP, Kobe is one of the best players ever, Howard is the bes center in all of basketball, Rose is the youngest MVP in League history, and Durant won the scoring title. In fact, in this year's MVP voting he was voting 6th (outside of the top 5 btw) behind everyone but Wade...so please tell me which 2 Dirk is better than.

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Right now I have Dirk ahead of Kobe and Wade. "Right now" being the operative words.

Here is my reasoning from the first page of this thread:

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Dirk elevates his game in the post-season (granted so does Wade), and has pretty elite company when you look at his career playoff stats(in reference to his 25/10 playoff average). I tend to prefer the precise skill in his game. His arsenal of move/counter-move shots kind of reminds me of the fade-away/jumper version of the Dream Shake, although not nearly as awesome. Both nearly unguardable though.

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You can call me a homer if that's how you wish to rationalize it, but I think Dirk is the toughest matchup in the NBA.

The problem for me (with this particular discussion), every time I think about it I have a different 5 players. The more I think about how dominant Howard can be at both ends, the more I think he should be up there (ahead of Durant).

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 5/6/2011 2:16p).]

Good point prep, it's totally okay getting upset about someone else stating who they think their top 5 is, because of course they are wrong.

Kobe
47 FG%, 36 3PFG%, 2.5 RPG, 1.5 APG, 3.0 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 2.0 TO, 29.5 PPG

Dirk
53 FG%, 60 3PFG%, 10.5 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 1.0 TO, 26.0 PPG

Dirk is shooting better thanks to the big difference in 3-point % and is dominating on the boards, Kobe is doing better defensively. Keep in mind this is after only two games and one great/terrible game completely changes this...

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 5/6/2011 2:20p).]

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Right now I would put him above Wade and Durant.

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Cool, and that's your opinion for sure, but I don't see how you can put him over a player in Durant whose averaging more points in the playoffs and in the regular season (scoring champion this season), not to mention the same amt of boards and assists and more steals and blocks, and Wade who averaged more points, almost as many rebounds (did I mention Wade is a guard and is 6'4 while Dirk is 7'0) and more assists...not to mention both Wade and Durant had a higher PER this season than Dirk too.

So I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on, but it is your opinion.

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You can call me a homer if that's how you wish to rationalize it, but I think Dirk is the toughest matchup in the NBA.

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I'm not sure it's being a homer, but I do think alot of people on this thread are letting there mavs love cloud there responses. To your specific rationale regarding elevating his play in the playoffs, both Kobe and Wade have seen there productions go up in this playoff as well. In fact, so has Durant, Lebron and Howard until they were ousted. Rose had a sprained ankle and still is dominanting that series. I'm not saying Dirk isn't elite, but in my opinion he's not a top 5 player.

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Good point prep, it's totally okay getting upset about someone else stating who they think their top 5 is, because of course they are wrong.

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Pleae show me where I got upset...or are you the kind of poster that if someone disagrees with you that's "getting upset." I just don't agree with Dirk as a basketball God, nor do I think you calling people stupid is warranted, especially from adults...but that's just me. If that makes me upset, call it what you will. I'm having a discussion, you're name calling. Take that to the zoo please and thank you.

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Kobe
47 FG%, 36 3PFG%, 2.5 RPG, 1.5 APG, 3.0 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 2.0 TO, 29.5 PPG

Dirk
53 FG%, 60 3PFG%, 10.5 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 1.0 TO, 26.0 PPG

Dirk is shooting better thanks to the big difference in 3-point % and is dominating on the boards, Kobe is doing better defensively. Keep in mind this is after only two games and one great/terrible game completely changes this...

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Now I see...you guys are basing this off of the 2 games thus far in the playoff series w/ the Lakers. I'm basing it off of the entire year, not just 2 games. perhaps that's where teh wire's getting crossed.

While Wade and Durant scored more than Dirk in the regular season, Dirk was by far the best shooter of the 3. He also played almost 5 minutes less than Durant and about 3 minutes less than Wade. Keep in mind that it should be easier for Wade and Durant to pile up better stats because they have the ball in their hands so much more.

I also believe that the 2nd best player on the Mavs is not as good as the 2nd best player on OKC or the best player on Miami.

I think good arguments can be made for all of the players listed to be in the top 5.

[This message has been edited by keithd03 (edited 5/6/2011 2:33p).]

For the year:
Kobe
45 FG%, 32 3PFG%, 5.1 RPG, 4.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 3.0 TO, 25.3 PPG

Dirk
52 FG%, 39 3PFG%, 7.0 RPG, 2.6 APG, 0.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 1.9 TO, 23.0 PPG

Dirk's been the better shooter and rebounder, as he has been throughout his career, while Kobe's generally been better at everything else.

My top 5... not a solid order
Lebron
Rose
Durant
Kobe
Dirk

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agree, dirk is unstoppable....offensively. however, if this was a best scorer thread (which it is not) durant would still win.

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Dirk is 5% better FG%, 4% better 3pt % and 1%+ FT %... Dirk scores .67 points per minute and Kevin is .71.

Dirk is .2 Rebounds per game more and .1 assist less.

Are you sure?

D'Andre Jordan led Dirk in FG%. I don't think anyone's saying he's a better player than Dirk.

Part of being a better player is being aggressive/trying to get up shots too (maybe not to Kobe's extent in the past, but you see my point).

Your example of DeAndre is 65%, 10% 45% for a total of 120. Dirk is close to 180 so in context you can make that comparison and Dirk dominates DJ as he should... comparison valid...

Dirk takes less easy shots than Durant also. OKC is an uptempo team and they get a lot of easy buckets.... his FG % should be better.

Dirk is one of maybe 3 guys in the history of the NBA close to that 50%, 40%, 90% mark.

Durant had a down year as far as his shooting also but I think Dirk would be considered the better offensive player by many.

The 3P FG% for D'Andre is a throw away stat -- he only shot one all season. Free throws are also completely different animal. My issue is making buckets with someone trying to physically stop you.

'Dirk takes less easy shots than Durant also'
I disagree with this. Durant hits more than his share of crazy guarded shots.

Dirk is a phenomenally-gifted shooter for his size, perhaps the best ever. That's what makes him so good -- the shooting AND the size.

I do love how alot of the Dirk fans like to use the "analysts" opinions regarding Dirk in the Playoffs, but ignore the fact that Dirk was 6th in MVP voting this year. I guess we can defer to the experts on this one.

Bottom line is that everyone is enamored by the first 2 games of the playoff series w/ LA and it's getting the best of ya'll.

NOTE: I didn't realize that being a great shooter is what makes you an elite player. If this was a shooting thread then Dirk is hands down in the top 5 if not top 3, but it's not...it's a 5 best PLAYER thread.

[This message has been edited by prepyag03 (edited 5/6/2011 3:13p).]

Both KD and Dirk play within their respective offenses very well. I don't think KD takes poor shots very often... neither does Dirk.

I left DW off my list mostly because I hate that he falls down after every play. Putting him in the top 5 is no stretch, he is an amazing player. DH is not on my list because of his poor free throw shooting... close of game he is on the bench or away from the ball; however, he is an amazing athlete and defender and his offensive game is getting much better.

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Dirk is a phenomenally-gifted shooter for his size

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He is one of the best ever for any size.... granted, his size may allow him to do that but his percentages are in the top 5 all time for any size any position!



[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 5/6/2011 3:42p).]

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I do love how alot of the Dirk fans like to use the "analysts" opinions regarding Dirk in the Playoffs, but ignore the fact that Dirk was 6th in MVP voting this year. I guess we can defer to the experts on this one.

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Because Rose is definitely the best player right now...

As a Mavs fan, I am happy when I see Kobe shoot. What does that mean? The best way to beat the Lakers is to goad Kobe into trying to take over the game and hoist up a ton of shots. Kobe trying to take over the game makes his team worse, Dirk trying to take over the game makes his team better.

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I do love how alot of the Dirk fans like to use the "analysts" opinions regarding Dirk in the Playoffs, but ignore the fact that Dirk was 6th in MVP voting this year. I guess we can defer to the experts on this one.

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I don't think analyst opinions or where you ended up in the MVP voting this year (except in the case of DRose because he won) should have much bearing on who is in the top 5, right now. In Dirk's case specifically, he played 3-4 minutes less than everybody above him except Kobe (33.9 to 34.3), who took about 500 more FGs than Dirk did. Dirk also missed 8 or 9 games, and that proved pretty costly because the Mavs were terrible in that stretch.

That's not to say the MVP rankings are completely invalid. There's definitely some merit there, but for me I don't really care how the voting went below #1 (maybe #2 if it was a really tight race). I'm actually surprised Dirk was that high seeing as his game isn't athletically aesthetic or flashy, he's not a 5-time champion, and he was injured. All that considered he still finished just 1 spot out of the top 5.

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Bottom line is that everyone is enamored by the first 2 games of the playoff series w/ LA and it's getting the best of ya'll.

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I agree, you shouldn't just look at Dirk and Kobe's 2 games against each other in these playoffs. It's pretty hard to argue with Dirk's 25/10 average in terms of playoff production though.

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I do love how alot of the Dirk fans like to use the "analysts" opinions regarding Dirk in the Playoffs, but ignore the fact that Dirk was 6th in MVP voting this year. I guess we can defer to the experts on this one.

Bottom line is that everyone is enamored by the first 2 games of the playoff series w/ LA and it's getting the best of ya'll.

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I take anything you say about about any metroplex sports player man with an absolute brush off. You hate Dallas more than the sips and always have. It will be great come June when Dirk is holding the Larry O'Brien trophy along with the playoff MVP trophy so you can just shut the hell up. You also tried to make a case why Josh Hamilton was not the best player in baseball last year and that was egg on your face.

Karl Malone was better than MJ in ...... 96? (not sure the year he won MVP but you get the point).

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It will be great come June when Dirk is holding the Larry O'Brien trophy along with the playoff MVP trophy so you can just shut the hell up.

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LOL!

First of all, Dirk is an amazing player. He just plays in an era where the top 5 is stacked. So it's easy to leave him out if you want. But no question is one of the league's superstars along with the other guys in the mix for top 5, so I'm not sure it matters much anyway. Nobody is arguing he is not a superstar. At least I hope not, because he clearly belongs in the top group.

[This message has been edited by Aston04 (edited 5/7/2011 12:48a).]

Preppy: there is no such word as "alot". Just a pet peeve.

And Dirk is top 5 in the playoffs so far. I'd say top 3.