http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6534048

1st:
Rose
Kobe
Durant
Lebron
Howard

2nd:
Wade
Westbrook
Dirk
Gasol (Pau, that is).
Amare

3rd:
Paul
Ginobili
Zach
The Marcus
Horford

[This message has been edited by Whistling For Flies (edited 5/12/2011 2:15p).]

Marginally surprised it's not James at the SF and Nowitzki at PF, but I can understand putting Durant in the top 5 with his scoring title and the surprising play of the Thunder.

I still shudder to think what could have been in Austin if Aldredge and Durant had played together.

LA: a 1st and a 2nd.
Heat: a 1st and a 2nd.
OKC: a 1st and a 2nd
Chicago: a 1st and a 3rd.
Orlando: a 1st
Dallas: a 2nd
NY: a 2nd
NO: a 3rd
SA: a 3rd
Memphis: a 3rd
Portland: a 3rd

Sad to see Hortford there over Timmy.

Dirk had better numbers than Kobe this year. Kobe should have been on the second team, but that wasn't going to happen.

I think Durant deserved 1st team.

Dirk is a F and Kobe is a guard. So kinda irrelevant.

You could easily make the case that Westbrook or Wade deserved first time over Kobe.

I don't know how they determine who is eligible for which positions, but Lebron could play the other guard spot.

My list would probably be:

1st:
G Rose
G Westbrook
F Durant
F James
C Howard

2nd:
G Wade
G Kobe
F Dirk
F ZBo
C Amare

3rd
G Paul
G Ginobili
F Griffin
F Carmelo
C Gasol

I'd go

Rose
James
Durant
Nowitzki
Howard

Why not just name 5 forwards first team?

Two guys on that third team (LaMarcus and ZBo) that should have been named on the All-Star team instead of KLove.

So glad to see Gasol earn his 2nd Team status come playoff time.

WFF - Horford is on the Hawks. You're probably thinking of Noah. Bulls only have 1 player.

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2010-11 All-NBA First Team
Position Player, Team (1st Team Votes) Points
Forward LeBron James, Miami (119) 595
Forward Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City (69) 492
Center Dwight Howard, Orlando (118) 593
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers (98) 551
Guard Derrick Rose, Chicago (118) 593

2010-11 All-NBA Second Team
Position Player, Team (1st Team Votes) Points
Forward Pau Gasol, L.A. Lakers (2) 259
Forward Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (47) 437
Center Amar'e Stoudemire, New York (2) 258
Guard Dwyane Wade, Miami (24) 392
Guard Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City 184

2010-11 All-NBA Third Team
Position Player, Team (1st Team Votes) Points
Forward LaMarcus Aldridge, Portland 135
Forward Zach Randolph, Memphis 67
Center Al Horford, Atlanta 62
Guard Manu Ginobili, San Antonio 106
Guard Chris Paul, New Orleans 157

Other players receiving votes, with point totals (first team votes in parentheses): Rajon Rondo, Boston, 68; Paul Pierce, Boston, 55; Carmelo Anthony, Denver-New York, 53; Kevin Love, Minnesota, 48; Tim Duncan, San Antonio, 43; Blake Griffin, L.A. Clippers, 36; Tony Parker, San Antonio, 27; Kevin Garnett, Boston, 22; Deron Williams, Utah-New Jersey 19; Steve Nash, Phoenix, 17; Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee, 13; Monta Ellis, Golden State, 11; Nene, Denver, 11; Andrew Bynum, L.A. Lakers, 9; Kevin Martin, Houston, 7; Tyson Chandler, Dallas, 7; Joakim Noah, Chicago, 5; Marc Gasol, Memphis, 3; Al Jefferson, Utah, 3; Kendrick Perkins, Boston-Oklahoma City, 3; Andrea Bargnani, Toronto, 2; Chris Bosh, Miami, 2; Andre Iguodala, Philadelphia, 1; Emeka Okafor, New Orleans, 1; Eric Gordon, L.A. Clippers, 1; Gerald Wallace, Charlotte-Portland, 1; Jason Kidd, Dallas, 1; Luis Scola, Houston, 1; Luol Deng, Chicago, 1; Ray Allen, Boston, 1

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Closest races were Durant beating out Dirk for 1st team F and Westbrook beating Paul for 2nd team G.

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Player Total Selections
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 15
Karl Malone 14
Shaquille O'Neal 14
Kobe Bryant 13
Tim Duncan 13
Bob Cousy 12
Julius Erving 12
Hakeem Olajuwon 12
Dolph Schayes 12
Jerry West 12
Dirk Nowitzki 11
Charles Barkley 11
John Havlicek 11
Michael Jordan 11
Bob Pettit 11
Oscar Robertson 11
Bill Russell 11
John Stockton 11
Rick Barry 10
Elgin Baylor 10
Larry Bird 10
Wilt Chamberlain 10
Magic Johnson 10
David Robinson 10
Kevin Garnett 9
George Gervin 9
Gary Payton 9
Moses Malone 8
Patrick Ewing 7
Hal Greer 7
Allen Iverson 7
Tracy McGrady 7
Steve Nash 7
Scottie Pippen 7
Bill Sharman 7
Dominique Wilkins 7
Walt Frazier 6
Elvin Hayes 6
LeBron James 6
Jason Kidd 6
George Mikan 6

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On the all-time list, looks like Duncan will stop at 13 All-NBA teams. Kobe ties Duncan at 13 total and 9 1st team and now has his sights set on Shaq, K Malone and Kareem.

"Borderline Top 50 player" Dirk shoots up to 11th all-time with 11 selections. KG holds at 9 and is probably done. Nash holds at 7 and is probably done, but I could see him jumping back in with a trade to the right team. Lebron already has 7.

EDIT: T-mac holds at 7. Probably done

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 5/12/2011 3:55p).]

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Durant barely edged out Dirk for 1st team F.

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Durant had 492 points and 69 First-Team votes to Dirk's 437 points and 47 First-Team votes.

That's a bit wider than 'barely edged out.'

**** I couldn't edit fast enough. I knew that was bad wording

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Michael Jordan 11

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Surpisingly small number. But I guess he lost a few due to injury and baseball .

quote:

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"Borderline Top 50 player" Dirk shoots up to 11th all-time with 11 selections. KG holds at 9 and is probably done. Nash holds at 7 and is probably done, but I could see him jumping back in with a trade to the right team. Lebron already has 7.

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It should probably be noted that until 1988, there were only 2 All-NBA teams, whereas there are now three.

It seems that the people that voted on the all-time best cared more about actual talent than being very good for an extended period of time as evidenced by everyone thinking that Bill Walton is one of the all time greats, even though he was only great for about 150 games over three seasons before his feet exploded.

In counting All-NBA appearances, should they be weighted?

Dirk has 11 appearances.
Magic Johnson has 10.

But would you want Dirk's 4 first teams, five second teams and 2 third teams or Magic Johnson's 9 first teams and 1 second team?

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It should probably be noted that until 1988, there were only 2 All-NBA teams, whereas there are now three.

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It could also be noted that there were only 23 teams in 1988. And it could be noted that up to 1968 there were always less than 10 teams.

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It seems that the people that voted on the all-time best cared more about actual talent than being very good for an extended period of time as evidenced by everyone thinking that Bill Walton is one of the all time greats, even though he was only great for about 150 games over three seasons before his feet exploded.

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Bill Walton is a special case. I don't see many others who wouldn't be considered an all-time great. Except T-Mac.

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In counting All-NBA appearances, should they be weighted?

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If only there was someone on the internet with the time, resources and an agenda who would put that spreadsheet together for us?

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 5/12/2011 4:13p).]

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 5/12/2011 4:23p).]

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In counting All-NBA appearances, should they be weighted?

Dirk has 11 appearances.
Magic Johnson has 10.

But would you want Dirk's 4 first teams, five second teams and 2 third teams or Magic Johnson's 9 first teams and 1 second team

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If you go 3-2-1 for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd respectively, Dirk would have 21 and Magic would have 20. If you eliminate the 3rd team votes, Dirk would have 19 to Magic's 20.

Plus Dirk should get bonus points for not catching AIDS.... Wait, I guess Magic would get even more bonus points for discovering the cure for AIDS. It's all so subjective!

MW03 - huh? "If you go 3-2-1 for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd respectively, Dirk would have 21 and Magic would have 20. If you eliminate the 3rd team votes, Dirk would have 19 to Magic's 20."

By my math, Dirk would have 24 (4x3+5x2+2x1) and Magic would have 29 (9x3+1x2).

Oops typo...maybe I shouldn't type so fast when being critical of others :-)

[This message has been edited by bayouaggie (edited 5/13/2011 5:41a).]

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25 (4x3+5x2+2x1)

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Methinks that is 24 not 25.

How many Aggies does it take to do simple multiplication and addition.

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Dirk had better numbers than Kobe this year. Kobe should have been on the second team, but that wasn't going to happen

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No he didn't. Sometimes I really think you maverick fans just say things w/out checking. Kobe had more points, assists, steals, per game and had a better PER while playing less minutes btw. Unless you're ONLY talking about shooting percentages, then no Dirk most certainly did not have better stats than Kobe this year at all.

Dirk has the edge in:

• FG% (.517 to .451)
• 3Pt % (.393 to .323)
• FT% (.892 to .828)
• Rebounds (7.0 to 5.1)
• Blocks (0.6 to 0.1)
• Turnovers (1.9 to 3.0)

Kobe has the edge in:

• Assists (4.7 to 2.6)
• Steals (1.2 to 0.5)
• Scoring (25.5 to 23.0)

So, if you ignore the categories that Dirk has the edge in, then Kobe has the beter statistics. If you ignore the categories Kobe is better in, then Dirk has the better stats. It's kind of irrelevant in the context of spots on the ALL NBA teams though since they play different positions.


[This message has been edited by Mutual_Friend (edited 5/13/2011 10:08a).]

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Dirk has the edge in:

FG% (.517 to .451)
3Pt % (.393 to .323)
FT% (.892 to .828)
Rebounds (7.0 to 5.1)
Blocks (0.6 to 0.1)
Turnovers (1.9 to 3.0)


Kobe has the edge in:
Assists (4.7 to 2.6)
Steals (1.2 to 0.5)
Scoring (25.5 to 23.0)


So, if you ignore the categories that Dirk has the edge in, then Kobe has the beter statistics. If you ignore the categories Kobe is better in, then Dirk has the better stats. It's kind of irrelevant in the context of spots on the ALL NBA teams though since they play different positions.

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I'm pretty sure that's what I said, except you left the overall indicator out...PER which Kobe leads in as well, albeit by a slim margin. I agree that they play different positions so it's almost immaterial to compare them to each other.

So Kobe is less accurate from the field and the three yet he has more ppg this means more lost possessions.

You keep citing PER as if it were the end all be all but here is where they stack up:

5 Bryant 23.94
10 Dirk 23.52
Difference of .42

That really puts them in a close range, if you were to find how many players are within .42 +/- you get this.

Kobe (+1, -5)
Dirk (+5, -1)

What this means is that #5-10 (Kobe thru Dirk) are pretty damn compact.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics

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You keep citing PER as if it were the end all be all but here is where they stack up:

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Dirk fans on here have been pretty quick to use PER when it suits their argument.

It would make sense that a player like Kobe, who does most of his team's ball handling and his game relies on penetrating, would have a lot more turnovers than a power forward that doesn't do a lot of ball handling or penetrating. 3.0 turnovers a game for Kobe is not bad and 1.9 for Dirk is not bad.

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Dirk fans on here have been pretty quick to use PER when it suits their argument.

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Not when the difference is .42.

I have already demonstrated that Kobe is closer to #10 than he is to #3, likewise Dirk is closer to #5 than he is #12. Those 6 players #5-#10 are pretty much even. This is why PER is a wash. If you want, call your 7th grade teacher and make up a scatterplot.

But what about those "meaningless" stats Dirk has over Kobe?

For every 1000 shots, Dirk makes 66 more.

For every 1000 FTs, Dirk makes 64 more than Kobe.

For every 10 games, Kobe gets one block, Dirk gets 6. Its not very impressive but it is playing to the position they play.

Granted Kobe is a guard and it expected for him to have more steals and, unfortunately, more TOs. Is there a way to equate these two stats? Remember your calculus? Simpson's rule. Without posting a screenshot, I will just boil it down. Kobe's TOs were a huge liability, however doubling Dirks steals made him more valuable in those two stats. But this is a comparison of ball-handling skills that skew toward guards (steal/TOs) and Dirk did win the TO question. But prima facie, does Kobe capture Rebs or Blocks? No. No where close.


[This message has been edited by BillOnCapitolHill (edited 5/13/2011 12:31p).]