just terrible

wow, the owners don't care since most lose money anyway, the players don't want to give up their big guarantee contracts

Somehow need a 20 game season so the veteran Mavs can stay fresh for a play-off run.

meh....we have football!

The owners are going to break them in half. They are itching to cancel the season.

Yep. At this point, it's looking like the owners aren't going to budge at all.

I don't mind them cutting player's salaries, even though the bad contracts are due to stupid owners. What I don't understand is how a hard cap benefits anybody but the small market teams, and teams like the Spurs, Grizzlies, and Thunder have shown that it is possible to succeed as a small market team under the current system.

I think the biggest storyline not being talked about is the split amongst owners themselves. I think the problem is that between the large market and small market owners, they can't decide what they want, and until that gets resolved, they aren't going to put out any serious offers to the players.

The Stern legacy:

1995: Owner lockout
1996: Owner lockout
1998: Owner lockout-games lost
2011: Owner lockout-games lost (apparently)


Yes, business in the NBA is apparently bad enough that the NBA can only afford to pay their top man over $20 million a year, and the franchises are losing so much money that the Warriors sold for a record amount.

The owners can't get things together amongst themselves.

See, that's my biggest problem. Owners complain that they don't make $$$ off the franchises, but are willing to pay WAY more than the franchises are worth on paper.

To me, that doesn't say business purchase, that says luxury purchase. I can understand if they're hemorrhaging money, but if that's the case the blame lies with them.

I agree that some players are "overpaid", but again that blame lies w/ the higher ups. The only people making too much money are rookies, I would have no problem with them going the NFL's route and making rookie salaries lower; they're unproven products. On that note, however, don't all 1st round picks have a ton of team options built into the K? So, these teams keep exercising the team option hoping the potential pans out.

Personally, this lockout is a bail out plan for poor management/ownership. The players may have too big a piece of the pie, but the fundamental issues that the owner's keep pointing to are entirely their fault.

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I don't understand is how a hard cap benefits anybody but the small market teams, and teams like the Spurs, Grizzlies, and Thunder have shown that it is possible to succeed as a small market team under the current system.

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That is all well and good, but the Spurs model centers on drafting a top-10 all-time power forward, about the same time you have a top-10 all-time center on board. The Spurs "creative roster" manipulation flat out doesn't work if Tim Duncan is not around. Ginobili and Parker are great, but they were both allowed to grow into the NBA because they didn't NEED to be great.

And you can just eliminate the Thunder and Grizz from the list as well. The Thunder are only good as long as Durant is around, and that isn't a guarantee. The Grizz have been league doormats for a long time, but had some playoff success last year. Both of theses teams will likely be sucking hind tit in 5 more years.

The startling trend of superstars forming "superteams" is going to kill what is left of the small market teams. I'm all for a hard cap like what is present in football, where draft picks are taken away and contracts can be voided if the cap is exceeded. If you're going to stick with the 30-team model, the talent needs to be spread around equitably.

And I'll add that I am 100% in favor of OWNER CONTROL of the NBA. They take the risks, they absorb the losses, they OWN IT. Nowhere else are "labor unions" demanding that even the worst employees make millions of dollars per year to play a game.

I don't think it is unreasonable that the owners should put measures in place that limit their business losses. Look at what happened to the auto industry, as a direct result of unreasonable union demands. Unions are like a parasite sucking the blood out of a business until it fails.

Contraction please. League is too watered down

My prediction when the lockout started in July was that there was almost no chance of any games happening before Christmas and that it was 50-50 that there wouldn't be a season at all.

I never thought the NFL would miss any games because it was a matter of how they were going to divvy up a humongous money pie. The gulf in the NBA is much, much wider.

MLB lost the '94 postseason due to a player's strike and I can easily see this lockout lasting into 2012. I have a partial season ticket (Rockets) and my rep told me that if there wasn't a season, I could get my money back with interest.

Pretty much in a 100% agreement Mass Ag.

If there are not some hard cap revenue sharing things in place the NBA will become worse then baseball with only a few teams competing for the prize.

In baseball teams like KC, Pittsburg, and most other small andmid market teams will catch lighting in a bottle here and there but really have little chance of ever fielding a consistently competitive team.

I used to be huge baseball fan but I find that I rarely even look at the scores any more and that was even before the Astros fell of the map.

I am finding that I really don't care if the NBA returns in it's present form or not.

You have a few Diva's running the league, and that will destroy it. Let em go play in Europe!

The only pro sport that I find my self a fan of at all is the NFL and that is because every team has a chance to create a winner and that goes back to the hard cap and revenue sharing, plain and simple.

College basketball and baseball is enough for me.

Nobody will notice until football is over.

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That is all well and good, but the Spurs model centers on drafting a top-10 all-time power forward

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You cant possibly be this big of a Mavs homer.

Clay, mass is one of the most active Spurs posters on this board. You can't be serious.

I'm having a really difficult time caring about the NBA anymore. The officiating is bad, most players are hard to like, and the franchises are generally poorly run. Overall, it's just not that interesting a sports league, and the court room reality show thing they have going isn't helping at all.

I've gotten to where I just focus on what goes on on the court and not off of it. If some franchise wants to run itself into the ground so be it. I just want to see the best players in the world play, and if they somehow manage to screw up a pretty sweet deal, then that's their problem and I'll still have college basketball.

Spurs fan, and he's pretty right clay. Sorry to tell you this, but if you think the Spurs win those championships without a Duncan-level big man, you're crazy.

But, they built around him correctly, just like the Thunder hope to do with Durant and the Grizzlies with bringing in Randolph. A small market team can succeed; yes, some luck is involved in getting a superstar, but hey, the Knicks are a large market and they sucked for a long time too, it can go both ways.

I assumed he was a Mav's homer due to the Top-10 proclamation. Name a player you can place above him at PF.

The owners need to decide what kind of league they want, and I don't think they are united or decided on that. Do they want a league where big names play in big markets and catch bigger media contracts for all or do they want a level playing field and the Memphis Grizzlies vs. the Indiana Pacers in the NBA Finals? That could net them all less money.

The BRI will get resolved when those other issues are fixed.

Also, I'm not sure the NFL is so popular because of the hard cap, but that hasn't hurt. The NFL is so much more popular than MLB or NBA because football is so much more popular.

HS and college football have no level playing field, but go look at how popular it is compared to other sports. Hell, college football has a playing field that makes it virtually impossible for non-BCS schools to win a championship, and yet it has the most eyes watching it on a weekly basis than any other college sport. The greatness of the college fb season isn't the "one loss and you're out", the greatness of college football is football on university campuses.

Quite frankly, college football generates better television ratings (which leads to better TV contracts) when big name teams play. Not TCU and Boise St.

[This message has been edited by Iowaggie (edited 10/13/2011 4:58p).]

clay, I'm assuming he's just trying to be politically correct and not de-rail the thread. There have been some great PFs, I mean, a lot of people think Malone is better than Duncan (not expressing my opinion on the matter, it's just what some people think).

I agree with you Iowa. Football is just more innately popular. I mean, people still supported Detroit even after an 0-16 season. Football will always be football, everything else is just competing for second place.

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The only pro sport that I find my self a fan of at all is the NFL and that is because every team has a chance to create a winner and that goes back to the hard cap and revenue sharing, plain and simple.

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Couldn't agree more. The NFL is successful because teams like Green Bay can draft, develop and feature an all-pro like Aaron Rogers without having to worry about him defecting to LA or Chicago.

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clay, I'm assuming he's just trying to be politically correct and not de-rail the thread

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clay- don't be so sensitive, and consider the context of my statement. While Tim Duncan is the "best all time", the point I was trying to make has absolutely NOTHING to do with that fact. I was trying to point out that in order to follow the Spurs model, you have to draft a top-10 all time PF (but not necessarily the best one ever).

agree with most of what's being said on here. I also think FF has really helped the popularity of the league. I watch games like crazy whereas 5 yrs ago, most NFL games bored me to tears

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Word.

Who is this player standing between Derek Fisher and Jermaine O'Neal?

Edit: Nevermind. It's Leon Powe. I couldn't think of it for probably 10 minutes; then it came to me two seconds after I hit submit.

[This message has been edited by Seven Costanza (edited 10/15/2011 7:50a).]

lol at short dude in the back

A crazy game took place in the pairs match between Chelsea and Arsenal.

<a href="http://www.juegosfollow.com/" title="Juegos" target="_blank">Juegos</a>,

and the NBA Lockout has officially gone on long enough for one of its players to get married and then divorced