I think that it's pretty obvious that Lebron in his prime is better than Kobe in his prime

Meh, I wouldn't say obvious. If I were to pick one or the other to build a team around, yeah, I would go with LeBron. But I haven't seen a player with a killer instinct and an ability to shut games down down the stretch like Kobe can since the MJ era.

Kobe's clutch-ness is such a myth. He definitely "shuts games down" in the sense that he's the guy taking all the shots, but he's very inefficient compared to Lebron.

http://swishnba.com/tag/the-truth-about-kobe-in-the-clutch/

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 12/17/2013 11:52a).]

Bron

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Kobe's clutch-ness is such a myth. He definitely "shuts games down" in the sense that he's the guy taking all the shots, but he's very inefficient compared to Lebron.

http://swishnba.com/tag/the-truth-about-kobe-in-the-clutch/

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 12/17/2013 11:52a).]

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Ulrich shoots and scores!

The initial post on this thread is like a Simplebag-Batsignal.

I will say that people saying LeBron is a "choker" is ridiculously silly. He has the stats to show that he can close games out, as that article suggests.

I think the reason throw out the terms "choker" for LeBron is because of the way he used to shy away from the big shot in the past. His first year in Miami, he had multiple chances to take the game over and shoot the ball, yet he seemed to be more interested in deferring to D-Wade (obviously that has changed a ton given that that was 3 years ago, but some people don't forget about that stuff so easily, and that's why the label "choker" still exists).

On the flip side, Kobe will NEVER shy from the big shot. He may miss a large amount of shots, but he is never afraid to take them, and I think that's a big reason why he is viewed as an "assassin" by many.

So with that said, if I could pick one person to take a last second shot with the game on the line, I'm taking Kobe every time. Just my opinion

If I were told "the final shot is going to be a fadeaway three over a double team 3 feet beyond the arc: pick someone to take it", I might take Bryant (Lebron is actually a much better 3 point shooter now than Bryant has ever been, and has some high degree of difficulty game winners himself). There's no other scenario in which there's even an argument to take Bryant over Lebron. I get that Bryant was a big part of really good teams and is fantastically skilled and we've been told a thousand times over how he's clutch, he's just... not clutch. You have to ignore his entire career to think you want him on your team when the game is close. His incredible skills are outweighed by his terrible decision making.

This idea that Lebron "deferred"... did Jordan defer when he passed the ball to a wide open Kerr for the game winner? People complain about ball hogs, but then they characterize players who care more about winning than being "the man" as unclutch or passive. If James is covered and sees a wide open player in a high percentage zone, he's going to make the pass and that is the right play.



Regarding the complete game... I took a quick look at James' stats this year, particularly the shooting splits. 64-41-78. That is absurd. This is the 7th consecutive season that his overall FG% has increased; it's sitting right at 60%.

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This idea that Lebron "deferred"... did Jordan defer when he passed the ball to a wide open Kerr for the game winner? People complain about ball hogs, but then they characterize players who care more about winning than being "the man" as unclutch or passive. If James is covered and sees a wide open player in a high percentage zone, he's going to make the pass and that is the right play.

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LeBron didn't always defer to a wide open D Wade. LeBron deferred to D Wade and had him take his defender 1 on 1 instead of himself.

And again, this was during the playoffs 3 years ago. I don't hold that same opinion that many do regarding LeBron and his tendency to choke. I think people who think that have either not watched the NBA the past few years or just plain don't like the guy. I'm just saying why that label is attached to LeBron's name and why it has never been attached to Kobe's

Got a good one for you guys:

Tom Brady or Peyton Manning?

Tom Manning

Fair enough, Summit.


And the correct answer is Tim Tebow. HE JUST WINS.

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And the correct answer is Tim Tebow. HE JUST WINS.

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Damn right

Kobe >>> Lebron

I like Kobe. But gotta take Bron.

Kobe: most overrated player of the last 20 years. Good player still.

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Kobe: most overrated player of the last 20 years. Good player still.

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This is such a stupid thing to say. The guy's a top 10ish player ever

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Kobe: most overrated player of the last 20 years. Good player still.

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Just come out and say it: you don't like the guy. I mean it's fine. I think he's a f-ggot too. But the dude has game and he is absolutely a top 10-15 player. Anyone who suggests otherwise has a personal problem against the man

Rings need to always be given context. Kobe had the highest win shares on one championship winning team. Lebron has had them on two.

The question here is how much credit does a guy get for being the second best player on a title winning team.

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Kobe: most overrated player of the last 20 years. Good player still.

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Just come out and say it: you don't like the guy. I mean it's fine. I think he's a f-ggot too. But the dude has game and he is absolutely a top 10-15 player. Anyone who suggests otherwise has a personal problem against the man

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He's probably in the 10-15 range. Maybe right outside. Just because I say he's overrated doesn't mean I think he sucks dick. As far as I remember, the victim was female. You seem to know otherwise though based on your post. It's impossible for me to have a personal problem since I don't know him personally, but on that note, I don't have any problem with him. He's just overrated. Most overrated star of this generation. That did belong to Dwight but we've all come back down to earth on that guy.

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Kobe: most overrated player of the last 20 years. Good player still.

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Just come out and say it: you don't like the guy. I mean it's fine. I think he's a f-ggot too. But the dude has game and he is absolutely a top 10-15 player. Anyone who suggests otherwise has a personal problem against the man

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He's probably in the 10-15 range. Maybe right outside. Just because I say he's overrated doesn't mean I think he sucks dick. As far as I remember, the victim was female. You seem to know otherwise though based on your post. It's impossible for me to have a personal problem since I don't know him personally, but on that note, I don't have any problem with him. He's just overrated. Most overrated star of this generation. That did belong to Dwight but we've all come back down to earth on that guy.

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Why don't you name 15 players greater than kobe? Just for fun

Last night still doing his win the game for them things



[This message has been edited by simplebay (edited 12/18/2013 7:45a).]

JKeefe, there's that hostility I've come to know so well from you.

MJ
Magic
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Wilt
Russel
Lebron
Kareem
Oscar
Isiah
Dr J

Will likely pass him: D Wade

So that puts him at 13 or 14. Looks like that makes him a top 15 player of all time. Good for Kobe.

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Last night still doing his win the game for them things



[This message has been edited by simplebay (edited 12/18/2013 7:45a).]

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Based on the post, I thought this was a game winner. Then I see time and score. Lol.

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Isiah
Dr J

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Respectfully disagree. The rest on your list you can make a strong case for. Replace one of these with Hakeem and I would agree with that as well.

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Will likely pass him: D Wade

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No chance in hell

virtually was. that shot doesnt go in, i think memphis wins. had all the momentum and the lakers were in full meltdown mode.

MJ - of course
Magic - yes
Bird - maybe
Duncan - no
Shaq - hell no
Wilt - likely no
Russel - yes
Lebron - not yet
Kareem - yes
Oscar - maybe
Isiah - lol
Dr J - wut

kobe's clearly in the 4-7 range.

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Isiah
Dr J

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Respectfully disagree. The rest on your list you can make a strong case for. Replace one of these with Hakeem and I would agree with that as well.

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Will likely pass him: D Wade

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No chance in hell

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Ya I meant to put Hakeem but it's close. He was a little overrated himself.

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He was a little overrated himself.

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I'm bout to crawl through your computer screen and kick your ass!

Kobe is underrated if anything. He has been measured against Jordan his entire career and he obviously comes up short. The fact that we even use Jordan as his measuring stick is a testament to Kobe's greatness. Depending on how you view the old timers, he is a top 15 to top 5 player all time. He is undeniably the best player of his generation and one of the best to ever play.

The Duncan vs. Kobe argument is an ongoing one, and Duncan gets the nod as often as not. I'm not going making the argument, just saying that it's nowhere near "undeniable" that Bryant is the best player of his generation.