If you get within shouting distance of "the eye test" you can't justify leaving Ginobili out. He was the second or third best SG in the league for a long stretch, one of the two best players on two title teams, and came within a whisker of winning a finals MVP. But yeah, he's just some guy who couldn't break the starting lineup.
Parker HOF???
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Last: 11 yr ago by FireAg
Not to mention Manu will go down as the craziest passer ever with some of the stunts he pulls.
Manu led the Argentinian team that ended the US's record win streak in Intl play and he led the only Intl team to win a Gold Medal at the Olympics since they allowed pro players. I think it is safe to say you could build a team around him and it would do ok.
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But international competition should have no weight in deciding HOF status.
The NBA doesn't have it's own HoF though.
Manu's absolutely in. Heck, Yao might be in.
Yao will be in just for the goodwill to China. Again, they put in Ralph Sampson, so how do you deny Yao?
GS, I'm curious whose stats those are. I'll admit, they don't look like HOF stats, but I don't know what era, position, team.
btw, my 2nd group of stats are Jason Terry's. If you lobby for Manu, you have to consider JET. I'm a huge Mavs fan, and I do not think JET's a HOFer.
I disagree. But I also said Parker is on his way to the HOF, not quite in yet, but will be. Parker has started all 13 seasons, shoots a higher percentage, higher scoring average, more trustworthy with the ball, less likely to make bonehead Manu-like decisions with the ball.
Yes, I do give credence to minutes played/games started. IMO, HOFers are trusted to play more, simply stated.
And this is the very last thing I'll say about international ball: I. Don't. Care. We all know that the top international teams are run very differently than our "dream teams" we throw together every couple of years. Other countries' teams stay together for years, and place a much higher importance on international play, whereas they are more like pickup games to the U.S.
Our players see the Olympics, and international games in general, as exhibitions. Now, things have changed for the better recently (see 2012 Olympics), but during that Argentina run we didn't exactly have our stuff together.
btw, my 2nd group of stats are Jason Terry's. If you lobby for Manu, you have to consider JET. I'm a huge Mavs fan, and I do not think JET's a HOFer.
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But Manu is much better than Parker by every measure.
I disagree. But I also said Parker is on his way to the HOF, not quite in yet, but will be. Parker has started all 13 seasons, shoots a higher percentage, higher scoring average, more trustworthy with the ball, less likely to make bonehead Manu-like decisions with the ball.
Yes, I do give credence to minutes played/games started. IMO, HOFers are trusted to play more, simply stated.
And this is the very last thing I'll say about international ball: I. Don't. Care. We all know that the top international teams are run very differently than our "dream teams" we throw together every couple of years. Other countries' teams stay together for years, and place a much higher importance on international play, whereas they are more like pickup games to the U.S.
Our players see the Olympics, and international games in general, as exhibitions. Now, things have changed for the better recently (see 2012 Olympics), but during that Argentina run we didn't exactly have our stuff together.
Yao?! Now we're just trolling.
It was a center that played in the 90s and 00s.
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If you lobby for Manu, you have to consider JET. I'm a huge Mavs fan, and I do not think JET's a HOFer.
Except Manu was the captain and MVP of the only team to beat the US Basketball team in the Olympics since 92. MVP of Euroleague, had a good argument that he should have been Finals MVP. Manu was named 50 best EuroLeague players of all time. And Manu has three rings in the NBA. JET doesn't have a resume anywhere near that.
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Yes, I do give credence to minutes played/games started. IMO, HOFers are trusted to play more, simply stated.
You'll be thrilled to know that Manu will break the 5000 minute barrier in the playoffs in game 2. Only a handful of non-HOF players are above that. He already has more than playoff minutes HOFer Dennis Rodman.
No problem with Manu getting in based largely on his International experience, but I have a hard time seeing it based solely on his NBA career.
yao will be in the HOF, too
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It was a center that played in the 90s and 00s.
It didn't come to me right away, but based on his NBA career, no, Sabonis shouldn't be in the HOF. I didn't see any of his euro games.
DC,
You may not care about international ball but that is irrelevant, the HOF does and in a significant way. In the last 15 years especially they have put several international players in that don't have half of Manu's resume.
As for Sampson, you have to also remember that the HOF considers college ball as well. Sampson won the Naismith 3X and the Wooden 2X. He is one of the greatest college players of all time even if he was only a pretty good pro player.
Bernard King makes no sense other than he played in NY.
It isn't the NBA HoF, never has been.
You may not care about international ball but that is irrelevant, the HOF does and in a significant way. In the last 15 years especially they have put several international players in that don't have half of Manu's resume.
As for Sampson, you have to also remember that the HOF considers college ball as well. Sampson won the Naismith 3X and the Wooden 2X. He is one of the greatest college players of all time even if he was only a pretty good pro player.
Bernard King makes no sense other than he played in NY.
It isn't the NBA HoF, never has been.
quote:quote:
It was a center that played in the 90s and 00s.
It didn't come to me right away, but based on his NBA career, no, Sabonis shouldn't be in the HOF. I didn't see any of his euro games.
The legends is that he would have been Hakeem, only a better passer, five inches taller with a three point shot.
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and I do not think JET's a HOFer
Good, because he isn't HOF worthy at all.
If you are just looking at stats, their career averages are very similar. Not surprisingly for a 6th man, neither of their stats improve in the postseason.
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and I do not think JET's a HOFer
Good, because he isn't HOF worthy at all.
It's settled then: Neither Manu nor JET are HOF worthy.
Except Manu has a gold medal in the Olympics as captain of a team for a team other than the USA. Every team captain on every Olympic gold medal team in the last 30 years is either in the HOF or isn't able to be voted in yet.
Jason Terry is not close to the player Ginobili is. I can see the superficial comparison, but there is a big difference in actual ability. When you add achievements, I don't know why you would even bring him up.
In what year could you have argued that JET was the best player on his team, all-around? That's where the comparison between him and Manu ends.
Won't even bother going into how JET could not take over games like Manu has / can.
quote:as a rockets fan i vehemently disagree
Won't even bother going into how JET could not take over games like Manu has / can.
quote:quote:as a rockets fan i vehemently disagree
Won't even bother going into how JET could not take over games like Manu has / can.
Yes
nope
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as a rockets fan i vehemently disagree
As a Rockets fan, it is highly unlikely that you were still watching the playoffs when Jet and Manu were at their best.
Parker will pass Wilt for 15th in playoff points this season.
quote:quote:
as a rockets fan i vehemently disagree
As a Rockets fan, it is highly unlikely that you were still watching the playoffs when Jet and Manu were at their best.
Ouch...
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