Relax, I was just teasing you.

If you want numbers:

Malone is the 2nd leading scorer of all-time
He averaged 25pts & 10 rebounds a game for his career
He was an NBA all defensive player 4 times in his career so he didn't suck at defense
Two-time MVP
Played in a time with better all-around big men in the NBA

So that is why I lean Malone. But as I said I think the case for Duncan is just as strong. This is just my personal opinion.

Malone was a PF when there were better centers. But he never played center. Duncan played PF in a time when there were better PFs than Malone played against (Dirk/Webber/Garnett.)

Malone scored a lot. No doubt.

His defense was largely made fun of by his peers because it was mainly hacking at wrists. In the 92 Olympics, Jordan and Magic made a skit about it during a practice. Meanwhile, Duncan has been All-Defense more than any other player that ever lived. Duncan has been All-Defense as many times as Michael Jordan and LeBron James combined.

Malone shouldn't have won either of his MVPs. One over Jordan, one because the vote was split three ways and he was easily the least deserving of the three (Simmons went into both of those in his book.)

Case for Duncan is much stronger. Including the fact that Duncan has back to back MVPs, four rings and three Finals MVPs. He is also 11 spots higher than Malone in the Simmons HOF Pyramid. http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html LeBron has won two rings since Simmons updated that, so Malone will likely be lower next time Simmons updates.

Again, all you really have is longevity and scoring. Malone was a worse rebounder, worse defender, worse shot blocker (didn't even average 1 per game) and was never a winner. Plus what really matters: Duncan has scored more points in the playoffs than Malone, despite quite a few less seasons. Duncan has more rebounds in the playoffs. Duncan has more assists in the playoffs. Duncan has the most blocks in the playoffs all time - 400 more than Karl. Duncan has more blocks.

Oh yeah, probably has something to do with the fact that Karl Malone only got the Jazz to the Conference Finals 5 times and lost in the 1st round 9 times, despite playing with two top-30 players of all time and a HOF coach. Meanwhile, Duncan has made it to at least the Conference Finals 9 times, has four rings and was the best player on every Championship team he was on. Oh yeah, and Duncan only lost in the first round twice.

So if you value winning and playoff performances, there is no question Duncan is the better player. If you value scoring a lot of points over 20 years, go ahead and pick Malone.

PG: Magic - $5
SC: MJ - $5
SF: KD - $2
PF: Dirk - $2
C: Dream - $1

(1) Frazier
(5) Jordan
(5) James
(3) Duncan
(1) Olajuwon

quote:

---

Malone was a worse rebounder

---

True, by not by much. Both were excellent rebounders.

quote:

---

worse defender

---

Agreed.

quote:

---

worse shot blocker

---

Agreed

quote:

---

and was never a winner

---

If you're only counting championships. He made it to the finals twice but ran in to the Bulls whom nobody could beat. 5 conference finals appearances isn't too shabby either.

quote:

---

Duncan has scored more points in the playoffs than Malone, despite quite a few less seasons.

---

Duncan has played in 227 playoff games, Malone played in 193. Malone averaged 24.7pts per game in the playoffs, Duncan has averaged 21.5pts per game.

quote:

---

Duncan has more assists in the playoffs

---

He may have more total due to playing in more games. But they both averaged about the same. Duncan 3.1 vs Malone 3.2

quote:

---

Duncan has more rebounds in the playoffs

---

Yes but just like season average they aren't far apart. Duncan's playoff average is 11.7. Malone's was 10.7

I have no problem with going Duncan due to playoff success. Few players can match him in that area and it's unbelievable what he's done late in his career. I think these two guys are really close as overall players despite being different style power forwards.

Plus Malone was a world class *******...

I can agree with that. He was a Jazzhole, Co-inventor of the flop.

quote:

---

True, by not by much. Both were excellent rebounders.

---

Not so much. Karl failed to reach 10 RPG in 9 seasons. Duncan in 4. Duncan has only once ever averaged under 11.0 rebounds per 36 minutes played. Malone only averaged over 11 rebounds per 36 minutes played once. And Malone never shared the court with a HOF center that led the league in rebounds.

Malone was above average as a rebounder, Duncan once led the league in rebounds. 11.5 vs 9.5 rebounds per 36 minutes played.

quote:

---

If you're only counting championships. He made it to the finals twice but ran in to the Bulls whom nobody could beat. 5 conference finals appearances isn't too shabby either.

---

5 conference finals isn't bad at all. Only Duncan has made it 9 times in less years. People say poor Karl, he ran into Jordan and couldn't win a title. But Karl failed to make the Finals with Stockton in 12 seasons that Jordan didn't win a title.

Malone wasn't a winner by any stretch of the imagination or by any metric. He put up a lot of points and played a lot of minutes. You have to admire his durability. But that is about the last admirable quality he has. Certainly doesn't have many off the court (denying the existence of his kids/refusing child support until they get drafted to play pro ball for one.)

quote:

---

Duncan has played in 227 playoff games, Malone played in 193.

---

Right, that is a big part of why Duncan is better. Malone played more seasons. But he got bounced in the first round nine times while Duncan got bounced twice. Duncan's team won at least 61% of their games in every season of his career. Malone's Jazz won 61% of their games in 67% of their seasons. He missed 6 times of 18. (I picked 61% because that is the 50 game threshold and both were over 61% in the lockout season.)

quote:

---

He may have more total due to playing in more games

---

Because Karl was not a winner and he lost too much despite playing with a second top-30 player of all time and a HOF coach. 9 times bounced out of the first round. That was half his career with the Jazz. How can you not penalize him for that, considering he had all those years with another HOFer in his prime?

Playoff per 36 minutes played:
21.7 vs 21.5 points
9.5 vs 11.7 rebounds
2.8 vs 3.1 assists
.6 vs 2.4 blocks
1.2 vs .7 steals
.463 v .499 FG%
106 vs 110 O rating
103 vs 99 D rating
23 vs 35 win shares
.14 vs .20 win shares per 48
.526 vs .547 true shooting %
21.1 vs 24.7 PER

There you have the players stats top to bottom for the playoffs. One is clearly better in almost every category.

Duncan had more games in the playoffs simply because he didn't get his ass kicked out of the first round in half his seasons (Thanks again, Hakeem!) and he is a winner. And that is why he will be forever considered the greatest power forward that ever lived by everyone that is involved with the NBA.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 5/29/2014 5:02p).]

And I have no issue calling Duncan the greatest PF of all time.

Good discussion. I concede.

Don't concede, FROK! Duncan was about to walk over during the timeout to debate you himself!

That's ok, mw, I don't expect Mavs fans like yourself to know much about Malone since the NBA as you know it didn't really exist until about 2001.

Everyone knew Malone. He was Bruce Elbowin's mentor!

I don't how you argue against Duncan as greatest PF.

Soup, good Lord being a photog provides a ton of free time, all this research

All off the top of my head.

quote:

---

All off the top of my head.

---

Ha, you've fought this battle enough it sounds like.

I decided that if there's a player not on the list, you can buy them for $1 and that's what I did at the PG position.

1 - Gary Payton $1
2 - Jordan
3 - LeBron
4 - Duncan
5 - Hakeem

Good luck scoring against them...

how i chose in order

C: hakeem @ 1 is thievery
PF: duncan at 3 is thievery
SG: MJ 5, obvious
PG: KD 2
SF: oscar 4

Frazier
Jordan
Bird
KG
Russell

Isiah
Jordan
LeBron
KG
Hakeem

Jordan + Magic and the other 3 won't matter.

Zeke, MJ, Pippen, Duncan and Wilt.

Few bucks leftover to bring Manu in off the bench.

I came up with

Thomas
MJ
LeBron
Garnett
Hakeem


Basically taking MJ and LeBron automatically, then taking Hakeem because he's a steal at $1. Came down to liking Isaiah Thomas enough to make it worth taking the cheapest PF.

Note: good luck scoring on them.

hakeem - $1
durant - $2
jordan - $5
magic - $5
dirk - $2

PG- Stockton (2)
SG- MJ (5)
SF- LJ (5)
PF- Dirk (2)
C- Olsjuwon (1)

Love having a pg who runs the offense in Stockton. GREATLY underrated PG in all-time greats talk. Give me Jordan and James on the wing to play lock down Defense and attack the rim. Ill take dirk to space out the floor, open up the lane and give me great 3 point shooting. And Olajuwon to add the post presence.

all $1, pocket $10, put in the bench

Jordan
James
Stockton
Dirk
Olajuwon

^ this. Stockton to a 7' shooter. Would love to see this group on the offensive glass.

Holy hell that center list... That's definitely the strongest position of the five. Kareem, Russell, and Wilt are top 5 players all time. Shaq is probably top 10-15. Olajuwon is top 20-25 overall and probably top 10-15 if you're talking about his abilities at his peak.

I'd draft an ultra big lineup.
Magic: $5
Bird: $4
Wilt: $3
Shaq: $2
Olajuwon: $1

Obviously not going to take many 3 pointers and they aren't going to defend the 3 very well either, but who cares? Wilt and Shaq are two of the most dominating paint players in NBA history and Olajuwon had his bottomless bag of footwork tricks. And the rebounding...

Stockton Jordan James Nowitski Hakeem.

Stockton
Kobe
LeBron
Duncan
Hakeem


-All are good passers (Kobe just has to want to pass).
-All have been named to numerous All-NBA defensive teams. They are also versatile enough to guard multiple positions and would be just fine on switches.
-All have range on their shots and would stretch the floor.

stockton - assists leader and steals leader
Jordan - greatest ever, can also play lock down defense
james - lockdown defense, most versatile
dirk - best big man shooter in history, space the floor, deadly on the pick and pop with stockton. while liability on defense, has the most uguardable short in history after the skyhook
hakeem - incredible value for one of the greatest defensive and offensive centers



[This message has been edited by awinlonghorn (edited 6/8/2014 2:08p).]

(By the way, Malone and Barkley > Duncan?? Are you [expletive] kidding me??)
PG: John Stockton $2 (hated him, but gotta save $ somewhere, need a distributor)
SG: Michael Jordan $5 (greatest competitor ever, in any sport)
SF: Larry Bird $4 (dude put Indiana State in the NCAA title game, case closed)
PF: Tim Duncan $3 (greatest PF of all time without question, and STILL adding to legacy)
C: Hakeem Olajuwon $1 (way undervalued on this list)

Bird+Duncan > LeBron+Dirk

John Stockton - I have enough scorers, I want the best facilitator of the bunch, and for 2 dollars, he is a steal.

Michael Jordan - The only position I'm spending five dollars on. He's the guy I want with the game on the line. The best closer in basketball history.

Larry Bird - Deadly three point shooter and maximized his skills more than any other player in NBA history.

Tim Duncan - Greatest power forward of all time for 3 dollars is a steal.

Hakeem Olajuwon - The biggest value of any player. Him plus Duncan gives a much better version of the twin towers. I thought about Chamberlain, but I have issues with him going against modern day players. If Bill Russell could defend him, I don't think guys like Olajuwon and Duncan would have issues either.

quote:

---

Few bucks leftover to bring Manu in off the bench.

---