As for the Cavs, I wait and see what I have in Wiggins. Kid has NBA-ready defense and will only get better offensively. If Bennett is really healthy and busting his butt, you could be better off with those guys long term. If Minnesota doesn't trade Love before the season starts, the offers are going to start going down when the trade deadline approaches as they aren't going to let him just walk out the door without getting anything in return.

ESPN has a column saying this should be a no-brainer decision for the Cavs, but it's insider only access.

The Knicks' situation is further proof that it's better to just wait for the superstar player than trade all your good young players for him

What superstar player did the Knicks have that they should have waited for?

He's talking about the Nuggets/Knicks trade.

http://nypost.com/2014/02/07/three-years-after-knicks-deal-for-melo-still-no-clear-winner/

The Nuggets got Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Felton, Mozgov, second rounders in 2012 and 2013, and a first rounder in 2014. The Knicks got Anthony, Billups, and trash. The Nuggets have posted a better record since the trade, and did it in the Western Conference.

The Nuggets posted a better record because of their coaching. Not because of those players. The point is the Knicks needed to make that trade at that time because they weren't advancing anywhere with that collection of players and D'Antoni as their coach. They needed a true superstar to at least try to build around and you can argue that Carmelo isn't/wasn't that, but it was better than what they had.

The Cavs situation is different. They have two superstar and they're trying to fill out their core with Love. They're not trading away their future to lure a Carmelo-type. They're (entertaining the idea of) trading away assets in order to win now which is the right move.

You would take Carmelo over Gallinari, Felton, Mozgov, and Wilson Chandler?

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The Cavs situation is different. They have two superstar and they're trying to fill out their core with Love. They're not trading away their future to lure a Carmelo-type. They're (entertaining the idea of) trading away assets in order to win now which is the right move.

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They already have a core. It has a superstar, a budding superstar, one can't-miss rookie, and a number of quality role players. They are already going to win now. Love might marginally improve their chances at a title for one year (I disagree, but at least an argument can be made), but he also destroys their chance to build a dynasty.

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You would take Carmelo over Gallinari, Felton, Mozgov, and Wilson Chandler?

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All day everyday. You wouldn't?

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The Nuggets posted a better record because of their coaching. Not because of those players.

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That Nuggets team was better after they traded Melo than before they traded him (same season). They won more games. Isn't that the point?

No. That's one season. The point was whether moves like this are worth in the short term compared to the long term. What's more important, winning now or winning later?

The Nuggets had a better record directly after the trade. A season later, the Knicks have the better record.

I'm saying with the Cavs, the window of opportunity is now. You can't plan for a dynasty in 2014. Dynasties like the ones we saw even in the early 2000's don't exist anymore. There are too many things that can go wrong and an infinite number of factors that can't be predicted.

Look at OKC. Their dynasty window is closing as we speak. I'm sure Chicago thought they were set up for the next 10 years with Rose. Same thing with the Rockets and Yao.

In today's NBA, windows are shorter than ever (unless you're San Antonio). Go for the sure thing, don't hope and pray Wiggins pans out and Bennett comes to his senses. You have LeBron and Kyrie. Get those guys all the help then need and want now, not five years from now.

Am I the only one that thinks Love is really overrated?

No. He's overrated. At least in the aspect that he is not a superstar. But he would be a good fit in Cleveland.

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The Nuggets had a better record directly after the trade. A season later, the Knicks have the better record.

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Th Nuggets have had a better record every season except for a one game difference last year, when Gallinari, their best player, was hurt the entire year.

And yeah, Love is overrated. A top 10 player should be able to get that T'Wolves team to the playoffs.

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What superstar player did the Knicks have that they should have waited for?

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the knicks could've just waited 3 more months and signed carmelo outright. He wasn't going to sign that 3 year extension with denver, no matter how much garbage posturing he tried

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In today's NBA, windows are shorter than ever (unless you're San Antonio). Go for the sure thing, don't hope and pray Wiggins pans out and Bennett comes to his senses. You have LeBron and Kyrie. Get those guys all the help then need and want now, not five years from now.

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That's because most teams aren't trying to build dynasties, they are either tanking or trying to hit home runs with trades and FA acquisitions to please shortsighted fans. Love is not all the help they need, Love is a no defense scorer on a team that has defensive issues and two of the best scorers in the game. Wiggins is the help they need. A lockdown defender to give them one of the very best defensive 2-3 combos in the game. Any scoring from him is icing on the cake because they already have Lebron+Irving+Waiters combining for 60 a game. Then you get to give Wiggins an honest tryout, let him grow into the player he can be while learning from the best, and all this on a rookie contract instead of having to tie up most of the cap in three players, two of whom have large holes in their game.

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Am I the only one that thinks Love is really overrated?

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Back in late December, when about 12 people frequent this board, there was a very brief discussion on this topic. Actually, it was whether or not Aldridge was the best PF in the game.

http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=52&topic_id=2416673&message_id=37923042&hi=1


I think all, including me, believe Love is really good, but put me in the overrated camp, as well.



[This message has been edited by Iowaggie (edited 7/25/2014 11:14p).]

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Not sure I understand why the Bulls are pushing so hard. They got Pau Gasol and already have Noah. You can't play Love on the floor at the same time as those two, so you are basically gonna split the three of them over the two positions through the season but what about in the playoffs? Who is on the floor for the last 6 minutes of the game? I think keeping Butler for defense/all-around game, Gibson for backup post off the bench (great hustle and defense) and McDermott as the new scorer is a better fit.

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IMO, the Timberwolves are floating those rumors to put pressure on Cleveland. As a Bulls fan, I don't think trading for Love makes much sense right now. We can't give up Butler (only true perimeter defender on the team) and it would look bad if they traded Mirotic because he left his Euro team to sign with the Bulls. If we can get him for Gibson, McBuckets and a few other non core assets, maybe. I think Cleveland could probly beat that offer though.

Love is far better than Pau and would give the Bulls a go-to scorer they need. Also it would keep Cleveland from getting him.

Agree that the ideal scenario for Minnesota is a Chicago-Cleveland bidding war to keep Love away from the other team. Obviously it all comes down to price, but as a Bulls fan, I just don't know if I'd give up alot for him.

I like the Bulls roster as presently constructed. If Rose is able to regain close to his old form, I think this will be the best supporting cast he's ever had. They have shooters (Mirotic, McBuckets, Dunleavy, Hinrich), elite defenders (Butler, Gibson, Noah), two of the best big men passers in the NBA (Gasol and Noah). Thibodeau will have alot of lineup versatility. Ability to go big and go small. After Popp, I think Thibodeau is one of the best coaches in the NBA from a game planning standpoint, esp on the defensive end. If the Bulls played the Spurs in the finals, I wouldn't bet on them to win, but I would bet on it being a good series.

Pros of McBuckets, Mirotic and Gibson for Love (assuming Love signs long term deal) - Raise overall talent level, keep Love away from Cleveland, have running mate for Rose for next 3-5 years, don't have to give up Butler

Cons of McBuckets, Mirotic and Gibson for Love - parts don't fit quite as well, Gasol and Gibson are great compliments at the 4 depending on matchups, lose shooters, lose upside of McBuckets and Mirotic (I think both could be very solid NBA players, maybe one will reach all star level)

At the end of the day, I'll be happy either way.

Deal is apparently official. Love to Cavs for Wiggins, Bennett, and 2015 1st.

Wow. I think I like what both teams got.

MIN has to be ecstatic. I guess CLE has to do the deal to try to win now. They can't wait for Bennett and Wiggins to mature, LBJ might be on the downside by then. they definitely paid the max for an expiring guy who was never going back to MIN anyway.

Cleveland is going to have a really bad defense. Irving, Love, the 3-pt shooting old stiffs. Gonna be a hell of an offense but lol@that D. Gonna run LBJ into the ground again busting his ass on both sides of the ball

I foresee a lot of SportsCenter highlights featuring Love getting a rebounder and firing an outlet pass to LeBron for the dunk.

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Wow. I think I like what both teams got.

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Love, varejao (nothing more than a hustle guy), and some min salary scrubs is a really really bad def front court. Gasol and Noah will obliterate that unit on O. Barring a legendary playoff hot shooting streak, the Cavs cannot win it all w that group. They should have shopped around for a better defensive big. Irving and James and their three point shooters formed a good enough offensive core to win it all. They needed to address the other side of the ball and instead they've likely gotten worse.

Varejao is a solid 4th or 5th best starter, but I still don't like that team very much. Awfully weak on defense and 6 through 13.

with a healthy rose..bulls drop the cavs in the eastern conference finals...

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I still don't like that team very much

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Yea don't get me wrong, that is going to be a glorious offense if Blatt can put it all together (and he should be able to do that). But yea. Hot damn that roster now has a lot of offense-only players. Here's their frontcourt:
Varejao: solid defender but not spectacular
Love: bad defender
Tristan Thompson: mediocre to very bad defender (Found this in an article from Feb 2014: "Tristan Thompson’s Defense Contributing to Cavaliers Collapse... So basically, opposing power forwards who Thompson has spent a majority of the game guarding are averaging 25.2 points and 8.4 rebounds per game over the losing streak"). I'd say Thompson has the physical tools to be a respectable defender.

Think about what Gasol, Noah, and McDermott are going to do to that frontcourt. Think what Splitter, Duncan, and Diaw would do. Either of those teams would obliterate that unit and have their way in the paint.

Also, other than LeBron, the Cavs don't have stellar exterior defenders either. Waiters and Irving are terrible and Jones and Miller are old and creaky.

This is looking a lot like 2013-2014 Miami: Bron busting his tail to keep the defense semi-respectable for the entire regular season and then being gassed come the playoffs (or at least the later playoff rounds).



On a totally different note, here's the Taiwanese "Love to the Cavs" animation, complete with Manziel snorting coke from a giant rolled up bill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uVIOjsZ-s0

[This message has been edited by Deputy Travis Junior (edited 8/8/2014 1:49a).]

Yall think this would have happened if Lebron didnt want it?

Whatever makes Lebron happy, do it. If Lebron was pushing it you pull the trigger.

I personally don't like it, but I also dont think its bad.

Not sure who they would get, but you have to think Cleveland tries to find a serviceable big before the trade deadline to put in some hard defensive minutes at the 4/5.

Also, I never heard exactly what 2015 1st round pick they gave up. Is it the Cleveland pick or the Miami pick? (pretty sure they still have this one) So maybe they dangle a future pick plus bench player for a decent rotational big from a crappy team.

Sixers are sending Thad Young to the TWolves for Bennett apparently.

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Not sure who they would get

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Honestly? I haven't looked at the Cavs roster so this is just spitballing, but I would have gone after Splitter or Chandler or DeAndre or somebody like that (Splitter is just an example as there's no way Pop trades him). Splitter isn't an offensive game changer like Love is, but he's just fine as a 4th option and his defense is great.

I know I'm beating a dead horse now, but I saw this in Simmons' newest column:

"Of anyone averaging 30-plus minutes per game at power forward or center last season, the NBA’s five worst interior defenders were Thaddeus Young (60.2% FG), Tristan Thompson (59.1%), Kevin Love (57.4%)"

So they've now put the #2 & #3 worst interior defenders in the league on the same team with just Varejao to bail them out. The Cavs management better hope they can find that interior defender because right now, every team they play is going to shoot 50%+ on bad days.

ttt.

Bennett is a big bag of nothing, but I wouldn't say that Love has proven to be worth Wiggins, Bennett, and a first round pick, especially since the Cavs still had to go find a big man in the middle of the season. This will probably get more obvious as the years go by.