*****OFFICIAL 2019-2020 Houston Rockets*****
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Last: 4 yr ago by dshedd41
The Hornets' interest completely makes sense to me. That organization needs literally any kind of injection of excitement. Pistons and Knicks as well. What Windhorst is saying contradicts a lot of other major sources are saying.
I am pretty down about this whole Rockets offseason. We lose Morey and get nothing for him and then get to watch what appears to be TIllman and the front office burning this whole thing down.
I guess we will see where we go from here but we could a playoff team in the West next year or a 55 loss team that is starting to rebuild with other peoples picks.
I guess we will see where we go from here but we could a playoff team in the West next year or a 55 loss team that is starting to rebuild with other peoples picks.
The best thing that could happen to this team is an intricate government investigation into Tilman and his business dealings.
IMO the beginning of the end was when Tilman bought the team. He has a reputation for being unbearable to work with. I only met him once and never dealt with him directly, but have had some dealings with Landry's Inc. and it was an extremely unpleasant experience. A lot of adversarial communication when it wasn't at all necessary along with unrealistic expectations. Attempting to renegotiate and add on to the scope of the work after terms had already been agreed upon. Difficulty collecting final payment. The expectation that we would treat them as our #1 priority with the opposite feeling coming to us from their camp. This wasn't coming from just one individual - it was a general attitude and obviously part of the culture. I did not look forward to dealing with them and was relieved when the project was finished.
Obviously it's a successful strategy in certain industries and far be it from me to tell a guy worth 1M x more than me his business, but I don't predict that m.o. is going to be successful dealing with the delicate genius types in the NBA.
Obviously it's a successful strategy in certain industries and far be it from me to tell a guy worth 1M x more than me his business, but I don't predict that m.o. is going to be successful dealing with the delicate genius types in the NBA.
I agree with Harry D. Tillman also has a reputation for stiffing contractors on work they do for him, and forcing the contractor to either sue or settle for a reduced payment. A good friend withdrew a bid to do work for Tillman when he learned about Tillman's practices. An attorney advised my friend not to do work for Tillman unless he could get an acceptable amount upfront, because it may be hard to collect the balance. Tillman wouldn't pay enough upfront, so my friend withdrew his bid.
It seems clear to me that both Antoni and Morey had already had enough of him, and wanted out. Like Harry said, Tillman has made a fortune his way of doing things, but his approach doesn't seem like a good fit with high salaried players and coaches that also have big egos and other options.
It seems clear to me that both Antoni and Morey had already had enough of him, and wanted out. Like Harry said, Tillman has made a fortune his way of doing things, but his approach doesn't seem like a good fit with high salaried players and coaches that also have big egos and other options.
On the BS Podcast, he suggested:
Mike Conley to Philly
Westbrook to Utah
Hortford to Houston
Mike Conley to Philly
Westbrook to Utah
Hortford to Houston
I don't hate that
Maybe Russ cares more about getting his numbers than winning. Who would have guessed.
Do you think Russ is even a playable rotation player in the playoffs? I have doubts.
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Bill O Brien the GM for the Rockets now?
We would need like 5 first rounders there
...or for them to also take Russ.YNWA_AG said:
We would need like 5 first rounders there
Now you're just being dumb. Just because he's overpaid and past his peak doesn't mean he's a scrub all of a sudden.PascalsWager said:
Do you think Russ is even a playable rotation player in the playoffs? I have doubts.
He is still one of the top 50 players in the NBA, just closer to 50 than he used to be to 1.
Russ is the manifestation of the meaninglessness of the regular season. In a stupid mid January game where Lebron is giving 50%, Steph is playing 27 minutes, and Kawhi just sits out Russ can give you a huge 45 minute superstar performance. When everyone turns on their switch and starts caring Russ has nowhere to go because his game is all energy and effort.
Even at his peak he was an overrated regular season player. I grant he was better. The average shooting kept him at least mildly in the game. Now he's got nothing. Even if his horrible shot selections go in, the defenders will let him have that. For all his athleticism he's always been a bad finisher.
He's not a top 50 player in the playoffs. There is no evidence that he is. He's the horrible focal point on your 38 win team ( again I grant that he could get a team to 45 wins at his peak). He offers little as a second option. And if asked to be a role player what would his role be? A 6'4 center who can handle?
Send him to Charlotte. They don't care about winning playoff games there.
Even at his peak he was an overrated regular season player. I grant he was better. The average shooting kept him at least mildly in the game. Now he's got nothing. Even if his horrible shot selections go in, the defenders will let him have that. For all his athleticism he's always been a bad finisher.
He's not a top 50 player in the playoffs. There is no evidence that he is. He's the horrible focal point on your 38 win team ( again I grant that he could get a team to 45 wins at his peak). He offers little as a second option. And if asked to be a role player what would his role be? A 6'4 center who can handle?
Send him to Charlotte. They don't care about winning playoff games there.
The germans land on the moon
Bulldog73 said:
Sounds like there's smoke of Harden to Nets being a possibility? There are quite a few tweets, this just happened to contain a little more information.
That would be an insane haul. I love all of those nets players. Dinwiddie and Lavert is a top 10 backcourt (not a hot take). Those guys plus WB, Tucker, Gordon, Roco and House...they would legit have one of the deepest teams in the league. Honestly I think the rockets would be dumb not to make that trade if it's available.
I hang my head in shame
Sarcasm??
I agree with most of that.
The only part we disagree on is how much less Russ is worth than what he's paid and what we most agree on is that his value is much higher on a team like Charlotte where he can subjugate everyone else to his style and put up glorious regular season stats on an 8-seed.
It's just dumb to say that he's not even a playoff rotation player, in general. Carmelo Anthony is still a playoff rotation player. Now Melo is not a rotation player on the Rockets...and maybe you're right, maybe Russ isn't either (on a Harden team), but that's not Melo nor Russ' fault.
Harden has given us some great memories and it's easier to hate Russ, but they are similar in different ways. The organization has bent over backwards to create a philosophy that suits Harden and surround him with guys that compliment him and while running off a lot of great players. After the nearly successful CP iteration, the desperation and personnel hail marys were borderline pathetic. This isn't playstation - you can't just keep turning the roster over and hoping it will work. The Russ experiment was such an ill-conceived notion, made by a GM and coach that were probably like "Eff it, we've got nothing to lose Tilman sucks and we've tried everything else - let's give it one last shot and if it doesn't work we are out of here."
Let's not even get started on small ball...and granted we made the most of it just like Mike Leach peak TT football, but at some point in the playoffs you're going to play more complete teams that will expose you when you can't match up or play interior defense or rebound and dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble step back 3 isn't working.
Bottom line is Harden is not a guy that can carry a team to a championship anymore and we flipped and flipped our roster to a point where it is too thin and too capped out to surround him with what he would need to win a championship. Plus the only GM with a prayer of doing it skipped town and we have a roster suited to a gimmick style whose architect took off as well. Harden's best bet is to go to the Nets, be the 3rd best player on that team and see if he can keep his ego in check long enough to win a championship.
Personally I'd 100% rather have blown it up last year and have Capela and some young talent and draft picks. The longer we wait, the less we are going to get in return and the further we are from being competitive again.
The only part we disagree on is how much less Russ is worth than what he's paid and what we most agree on is that his value is much higher on a team like Charlotte where he can subjugate everyone else to his style and put up glorious regular season stats on an 8-seed.
It's just dumb to say that he's not even a playoff rotation player, in general. Carmelo Anthony is still a playoff rotation player. Now Melo is not a rotation player on the Rockets...and maybe you're right, maybe Russ isn't either (on a Harden team), but that's not Melo nor Russ' fault.
Harden has given us some great memories and it's easier to hate Russ, but they are similar in different ways. The organization has bent over backwards to create a philosophy that suits Harden and surround him with guys that compliment him and while running off a lot of great players. After the nearly successful CP iteration, the desperation and personnel hail marys were borderline pathetic. This isn't playstation - you can't just keep turning the roster over and hoping it will work. The Russ experiment was such an ill-conceived notion, made by a GM and coach that were probably like "Eff it, we've got nothing to lose Tilman sucks and we've tried everything else - let's give it one last shot and if it doesn't work we are out of here."
Let's not even get started on small ball...and granted we made the most of it just like Mike Leach peak TT football, but at some point in the playoffs you're going to play more complete teams that will expose you when you can't match up or play interior defense or rebound and dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble step back 3 isn't working.
Bottom line is Harden is not a guy that can carry a team to a championship anymore and we flipped and flipped our roster to a point where it is too thin and too capped out to surround him with what he would need to win a championship. Plus the only GM with a prayer of doing it skipped town and we have a roster suited to a gimmick style whose architect took off as well. Harden's best bet is to go to the Nets, be the 3rd best player on that team and see if he can keep his ego in check long enough to win a championship.
Personally I'd 100% rather have blown it up last year and have Capela and some young talent and draft picks. The longer we wait, the less we are going to get in return and the further we are from being competitive again.
No thanks. That roster might be a 7 seed in the East, so probably a 10th seed in the west. If we are going that route, lets just dump everyone for picksM.C. Swag said:Bulldog73 said:
Sounds like there's smoke of Harden to Nets being a possibility? There are quite a few tweets, this just happened to contain a little more information.
That would be an insane haul. I love all of those nets players. Dinwiddie and Lavert is a top 10 backcourt (not a hot take). Those guys plus WB, Tucker, Gordon, Roco and House...they would legit have one of the deepest teams in the league. Honestly I think the rockets would be dumb not to make that trade if it's available.
I say roll it back again. The westbrook/Harden combo looked much better when Westbrook was healthy. I haven't seen a single trade that really makes the rockets better and I'm not keen on trading Harden for anything that isn't a guaranteed star.
Westbrook just doesn't have any real trade value right now, so its not worth trying. The best option might be to roll it back again and have Russ restore his value, then flip him before the trade deadline. I don't like selling assets when the market perception has already plummeted. The money is sunk, might as well wait till the commodity regains some value before moving it.
Yeah in theory that's perfect, but how do you think it's going to go with Harden and Russ still together under a completely rookie regime this year. I'm not real confident their trade value is going to be higher at the deadline.
I really dislike that players can just start saying "I don't like it here" and you have to trade them for inferior talent.
They don't like it here? Too ****ing bad, Harden. You've got a contract.
They don't like it here? Too ****ing bad, Harden. You've got a contract.
Good take.PascalsWager said:
Russ is the manifestation of the meaninglessness of the regular season. In a stupid mid January game where Lebron is giving 50%, Steph is playing 27 minutes, and Kawhi just sits out Russ can give you a huge 45 minute superstar performance. When everyone turns on their switch and starts caring Russ has nowhere to go because his game is all energy and effort.
Even at his peak he was an overrated regular season player. I grant he was better. The average shooting kept him at least mildly in the game. Now he's got nothing. Even if his horrible shot selections go in, the defenders will let him have that. For all his athleticism he's always been a bad finisher.
He's not a top 50 player in the playoffs. There is no evidence that he is. He's the horrible focal point on your 38 win team ( again I grant that he could get a team to 45 wins at his peak). He offers little as a second option. And if asked to be a role player what would his role be? A 6'4 center who can handle?
Send him to Charlotte. They don't care about winning playoff games there.
He's kind of found himself without a niche (maybe similar to Melo a few years ago).
He's too much of a ball dominant alpha to carve out a role on a good team. He doesn't offer enough upside for a team that's already cohesive to try and mix him in. Risk outweighs the reward. But he's also not good enough as a lead dog for a lesser to team to give him the reigns and expect to be a contender.
Peak Russ was probly 2013-2016 when he just played "your turn, my turn" with KD on teams that were very good defensively and had solid role players around them. Russ in 2017 got more of headlines and an MVP, but that version of Russ never had a chance of leading a team into contention. Teaming him up with PG just delayed the inevitable. Been downhill ever since.
I guess it was worth it for the Rockets to try and recreate that "your turn, my turn" offense with James instead of KD, but Russ is too far past his prime now. The ball needs to be in Harden's hands and Russ is never going to be comfortable playing off the ball.
Quite frankly, OKC got lucky to get the deal that they got last offseason. The Rockets were probably the last team in the NBA that could feasibly look at Russ and think they could make it work. Unfortunately it didn't and now the Rockets are probably stuck with him unless they're willing to take back some really bad contracts.
The only role that seems to make sense for him on a contending team at this point is a microwave scorer off the bench, but I don't think he'd accept that role at this point in his career. He still sees himself as a top tier player.
This is, unfortunately, the world we live in now. Across all sports, but especially in the NBA.MuckRaker96 said:
I really dislike that players can just start saying "I don't like it here" and you have to trade them for inferior talent.
They don't like it here? Too ****ing bad, Harden. You've got a contract.
Good article and solid points by O'Connor. Stone has his work cut out for him, but it sounds like he needs to deal with Westbrook first and foremost.Guitarsoup said:
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/11/16/21569761/the-rockets-may-need-to-trade-james-harden-but-why-now
That is bill obrien bad if that happens
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