*** 2023 NBA DRAFT ***

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WC94
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In reply to 94chem • 10:50p, 5/17/23
AG
94chem said:
WC94 said:
94chem said:
Know Your Enemy said:
Spurs have been in 8 lotteries and won 3. Not only did they win 3 but all of them had off the charts talent waiting to be taken #1. The Admiral. Timmy D, and now Wemby. Talk about lucky.


Meanwhile, the Dallas Mavericks have been in the lottery 17 times and have NEVER moved up, but have moved down 7 times for a total of 13 picks lower.


Maybe you should ask, why have you been in the Lottery 17 times. Ginobili, Parker, and Kahwai were not lottery picks and all will be in the HOF


I have never been in the lottery. But to re-direct your off-topic comment to make it relevant to this thread, I assume you're saying that the Spurs would have won all their titles without Duncan or Robinson? Interesting notion. Not sure I would agree with that.


Sorry, Dallas not you. My point is, the Spurs would potentially only have 1 title if they didn't draft 3 HOF players outside of the lottery draft. Tony Parker 28th, Manu Ginobili 57th, and they moved up for Kahwai Leonard at 15th by trading a fan favorite player.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to WC94 • 12:33p, 5/18/23
AG
WC94 said:
94chem said:
Know Your Enemy said:
Spurs have been in 8 lotteries and won 3. Not only did they win 3 but all of them had off the charts talent waiting to be taken #1. The Admiral. Timmy D, and now Wemby. Talk about lucky.


Meanwhile, the Dallas Mavericks have been in the lottery 17 times and have NEVER moved up, but have moved down 7 times for a total of 13 picks lower.


Maybe you should ask, why have you been in the Lottery 17 times. Ginobili, Parker, and Kahwai were not lottery picks and all will be in the HOF
We were an expansion team in the 80s when the lottery was instituted and terrible in the 90s. But since 2000, the Mavs have the 2nd best winning percentage in the NBA.

The Spurs have drafted and developed well but winning the lottery THREE times when there are consensus #1 generational prospects is a type of lucky no other franchise has had. So yes, congratulations on the sucess your favorite team has had, but it's not like luck (good and bad) haven't played a huge role in it.
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WC94
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 7:50p, 5/19/23
AG
M.C. Swag said:
WC94 said:
94chem said:
Know Your Enemy said:
Spurs have been in 8 lotteries and won 3. Not only did they win 3 but all of them had off the charts talent waiting to be taken #1. The Admiral. Timmy D, and now Wemby. Talk about lucky.


Meanwhile, the Dallas Mavericks have been in the lottery 17 times and have NEVER moved up, but have moved down 7 times for a total of 13 picks lower.


Maybe you should ask, why have you been in the Lottery 17 times. Ginobili, Parker, and Kahwai were not lottery picks and all will be in the HOF
We were an expansion team in the 80s when the lottery was instituted and terrible in the 90s. But since 2000, the Mavs have the 2nd best winning percentage in the NBA.

The Spurs have drafted and developed well but winning the lottery THREE times when there are consensus #1 generational prospects is a type of lucky no other franchise has had. So yes, congratulations on the sucess your favorite team has had, but it's not like luck (good and bad) haven't played a huge role in it.


Ok. Not running back with Tyson Chandler, not resigning Steve Nash, and trading Jason Kidd. Pop was desperately trying to trade Parker for Kidd.

Luck has jack **** to do with it. Culture and development everything. You can't have the all time winningest record in a small market otherwise. David Robinson deserves a ton the credit for setting the locker room leadership. Fun fact, Spurs used to be the Dallas Chapparals in the ABA.

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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Lake08 • 8:30p, 5/19/23
AG
Lake08 said:
Guitarsoup said:
Lake08 said:
misterguinness said:
Draft lottery is rigged. NBA marketing storyline is Wembanyana as next Duncan


Worst team he could have gone too. Especially to that fruitcake, liberal pop.


Worst team? Because the Spurs waste so much talent?


Yep. They are laughing stock of the league and pop is rediculously overrated as a person and coach.


To be this delusional.
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flashplayer
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 9:00p, 5/19/23
AG
M.C. Swag said:
WC94 said:
94chem said:
Know Your Enemy said:
Spurs have been in 8 lotteries and won 3. Not only did they win 3 but all of them had off the charts talent waiting to be taken #1. The Admiral. Timmy D, and now Wemby. Talk about lucky.


Meanwhile, the Dallas Mavericks have been in the lottery 17 times and have NEVER moved up, but have moved down 7 times for a total of 13 picks lower.


Maybe you should ask, why have you been in the Lottery 17 times. Ginobili, Parker, and Kahwai were not lottery picks and all will be in the HOF
We were an expansion team in the 80s when the lottery was instituted and terrible in the 90s. But since 2000, the Mavs have the 2nd best winning percentage in the NBA.

The Spurs have drafted and developed well but winning the lottery THREE times when there are consensus #1 generational prospects is a type of lucky no other franchise has had. So yes, congratulations on the sucess your favorite team has had, but it's not like luck (good and bad) haven't played a huge role in it.


Robinson was far from a generational talent for his era.

While Duncan turned into an all time top player, no one knew thats what his ceiling was. There were people making a case for Keith Van Horn to be picked first that year and there were a fair number of people saying that even though they were definitely the minority.

Duncan and his attitude/ work ethic was the biggest maker of the modern spurs but it was a 2 way street and he never would have reached the same heights in a bad organization like Philly or Washington or Charlotte.

But yes, luck still does have a lot to do with it. Though like any great success story in life, it's usually a combination of luck and good habits/culture working together that separates the great from the good.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to flashplayer • 9:32p, 5/19/23
AG

Quote:
Robinson was far from a generational talent for his era.
He averaged 26points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.7 steals and 3.1 blocks per game prior to his back surgery/broken foot.

He is the last player to have a quadruple-double.
He and Kareem are the only two players to lead the league in scoring, rebounds, and blocks.
He was never lower than 6th in MVP voting until his injuries.
DPOY, MVP, ROY - Only Robinson and Jordan won all three.
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flashplayer
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 8:02a, 5/20/23
AG
I meant based on perception. He was amazing when healthy after he served his time in the Navy up until all the injuries/overuse piled up. But they weren't projecting him as what he ended up being leading up to that draft.

The other poster made it sound like the Spurs have gotten to pick 3 HOF locks from the moment they were drafted.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to flashplayer • 8:44a, 5/20/23
AG
flashplayer said:
I meant based on perception. He was amazing when healthy after he served his time in the Navy up until all the injuries/overuse piled up. But they weren't projecting him as what he ended up being leading up to that draft.

The other poster made it sound like the Spurs have gotten to pick 3 HOF locks from the moment they were drafted.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there, dawg.

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/21/sports/nba-draft-clippers-hold-three-key-choices-and-a-13000-prize.html


Quote:
''David Robinson is alone in his greatness,'' said Marty Blake, who directs the league's scouting service. ''Whether you draft third or 10th, a team is apt to get the same good player. This is a draft that will require patience.

Robinson took freaking NAVY to the Elite 8 in a 30-win season. A&M has never even been to the Elite 8 or had a 30-win season. He beat #2 Syracuse, which had 4 future NBA players on it and was coach by HOF coach Jim Boeheim. That Navy team eventually lost to Coach K's 37-win Duke team full of talent like Johnny Dawkins, Danny Ferry, Quin Snyder, Jay Bilas, Mark Aliaire, Dave Henderson, etc.

Robinson was very hyped. The only question with him is that he could choose where he wanted to go. If he didn't sign with the Spurs, he could reenter the draft in 88. If he decided not to sign with that team, he could become an unrestricted free agent and sign with any team he wanted for any salary he wanted. And remember the league didn't have max contracts at the time.

Robinson came to SA, the Spurs showed that it was a strong military town with BAMC, Kelley, Randolph, Lackland, Fort Sam Houston, etc and he signed with the Spurs. Also, I know the Spurs paid Robinson more than the Bulls paid Jordan while he was in the Navy serving those two years.

Robinson was a 2x All-American, led the NCAA in blocks and rebounds and was 3rd in points.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to flashplayer • 8:55a, 5/20/23
AG
Robinson and Duncan were absolutely no brainer, consensus #1 picks in their class. Idk what memory gymnastics you're doing.
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flashplayer
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9:18a, 5/20/23
AG
I didnt claim that. Robinson was a consensus #1 and so was Duncan outside of a very fringe group of Keith Van Horn bandwagoners.

They weren't hyped like Lebron or like Wembanyama though as players who would have a giant impact on the whole league.

Robinson was drafted in an era of great bigs. Go five years either way and you see the following drafted 1st overall in that time:
Ralph Sampson
Hakeem
Ewing
Shaq

Robinson was great. I'm not arguing that. But he wasn't hyped as some transcendent basketball God that was going to catapult the Spurs to the top of the league. He ended up being close to something on that order, and I don't think it's a stretch to say he was a bit of a high achiever relative to his hype, #1 pick or not.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to flashplayer • 11:37a, 5/20/23
AG
I never said they were hyped like Lebron. I said they were the clear cut best players in their draft and it was only luck that decided who took them #1.
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WC94
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3:31p, 5/20/23
AG
Tin Duncan was the absolute consensus #1 pick. Rick Petino and the GM offered up the 3rd/6th pick (Chancy Billups/Ron Mercer) to move to #1. Pop said he wouldn't trade that pick for Michael, Magic, or Larry.

The former GM said this:

"Because I knew right then, to get Tim Duncan away from San Antonio, we'd have to give them the Prudential Center, all the money on the Mass Pike, you'd have to give them all of the North End, you'd have to give them all the suburbs, and probably the Callahan Tunnel revenue, as well as the Ted Williams revenue for the next 40-50 years."
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Ag with kids
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In reply to WC94 • 4:11p, 5/20/23
AG
WC94 said:
Tin Duncan was the absolute consensus #1 pick. Rick Petino and the GM offered up the 3rd/6th pick (Chancy Billups/Ron Mercer) to move to #1. Pop said he wouldn't trade that pick for Michael, Magic, or Larry.

The former GM said this:

"Because I knew right then, to get Tim Duncan away from San Antonio, we'd have to give them the Prudential Center, all the money on the Mass Pike, you'd have to give them all of the North End, you'd have to give them all the suburbs, and probably the Callahan Tunnel revenue, as well as the Ted Williams revenue for the next 40-50 years."
Hell, IIRC, Duncan would have been the consensus #1 after his junior year and everyone was surprised when he went back for his senior year to get his degree...and then was still the consensus #1 after that year.
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Head Ninja In Charge
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In reply to Ag with kids • 9:25a, 5/24/23
AG
Ag with kids said:
WC94 said:
Tin Duncan was the absolute consensus #1 pick. Rick Petino and the GM offered up the 3rd/6th pick (Chancy Billups/Ron Mercer) to move to #1. Pop said he wouldn't trade that pick for Michael, Magic, or Larry.

The former GM said this:

"Because I knew right then, to get Tim Duncan away from San Antonio, we'd have to give them the Prudential Center, all the money on the Mass Pike, you'd have to give them all of the North End, you'd have to give them all the suburbs, and probably the Callahan Tunnel revenue, as well as the Ted Williams revenue for the next 40-50 years."
Hell, IIRC, Duncan would have been the consensus #1 after his junior year and everyone was surprised when he went back for his senior year to get his degree...and then was still the consensus #1 after that year.
This is correct. He was the clear and away best player in college/amateur basketball after his junior year. Would've been the clear-cut top pick in one of the two most legendary drafts ever. Probably top pick in the 95 draft too; he had a better season that year than Joe Smith, McDyess, Rasheed, etc.
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Guitarsoup
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11:13a, 6/20/23
AG
https://sports.yahoo.com/portland-is-determined-to-improve-around-damian-lillard-and-holds-interest-in-bam-adebayo-145358329.html

Jazz trying to move up from 9 & 16 to maybe Detroit's #5 to target Amen or Black.

Collin Sexton on the market.
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Guitarsoup
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2:33p, 6/20/23
AG
New ESPN mock draft:

[ol]
  • SAS: Victor Wembayama
  • CHA: Brandon Miller
  • POR: Scoot Henderson
  • HOU: Amen Thompson
  • DET: Jarace Walker
  • ORL: Ausar Thompson
  • IND: Taylor Hendricks
  • WAS: Anthony Black
  • UTA: Cam Whitmore
  • DAL: Dereck Lively II
  • ORL: Gradey Dick
  • OKC: Kobe Bufkin
  • TOR: Jalen Hood-Schifino
  • NOP: Jordan Hawkins
  • ATL: Cason Wallace
  • UTA: Bilal Coulibally
  • LAL: Jett Howard
  • MIA: Nick Smith Jr.
  • GSW: Brandin Podziemski
  • HOU: Olivier-Maxence Prosper
  • BKN: Noah Clowney
  • BKN: Keyonte George
  • POR: Rayan Rupert
  • SAC: Kris Murray
  • MEM: Jaime Jaquez Jr.
  • IND: James Nnaji
  • CHA: Leonard Miller
  • UTA: Maxwell Lewis
  • IND: Ben Sheppard
  • LAC: Dariq Whitehead
  • DET: Brice Sensabaugh
  • IND: Marcus Sasser
  • SAS: Andre Jackson Jr.
  • CHA: Trayce Jackson-Davis
  • BOS: Julian Phillips
  • ORL: Colby Jones
  • DEN: Gregory Jackson II
  • SAC: Kobe Brown
  • CHA Jalen Wilson
  • DEN: Jordan Walsh
  • CHA: Sidy Cissoko
  • WAS: Jalen Pickett
  • POR: Seth Lundy
  • SAS: Terquavion Smith
  • MEM: Tristan Vukcevic
  • ATL: Amari Bailey
  • LAL: Julian Strawther
  • LAC: Keyontae Johnson
  • CLE: Mouhamed Gueye
  • IND: Hunter Tyson
  • BKN: Colin Castleton
  • PHX: Emoni Bates
  • MIN: Chris Livingston
  • SAC: Ricky Council IV
  • IND: Toumani Camara
  • MEM: Jordan Miller
  • WAS (via Boston): Adama Sanogo
  • MIL: Adam Flagler
    • [/ol]
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    Guitarsoup
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    2:34p, 6/20/23
    AG
    New Ringer Mock Draft: KOC:

    [ol]
  • SAS: Victor Wembayama
  • CHA: Brandon Miller
  • POR: Scoot Henderson
  • HOU: Amen Thompson
  • DET: Ausar Thompson
  • ORL: Anthony Black
  • IND: Jarace Walker
  • WAS: Kobe Bufkin
  • UTA: Cam Whitmore
  • DAL: Taylor Hendricks
  • ORL: Dereck Lively II
  • OKC: Bilal Coulibaly
  • TOR: Keyonte George
  • NOP: Noah Clowney
  • ATL: Jalen Hood-Schifino
  • UTA: Cason Wallace
  • LAL: Nick Smith Jr.
  • MIA: Jaime Jaquez Jr.
  • GSW: Gradey Dick
  • HOU: Olivier-Maxence Prosper
  • BKN: Jordan Hawkins
  • BKN: Leonard Miller
  • POR: James Nnaj
  • SAC: Jett Howard
  • MEM: Brandin Podziemski
  • IND: Brice Sensabaugh
  • CHA: Kris Murray
  • UTA: Dariq Whitehead
  • IND: Colby Jones
  • LAC: Trayce Jackson-Davis
  • DET: Ben Sheppard
  • IND: Tristan Vukcevic
  • SAS: G.G. Jackson
  • CHA: Maxwell Lewis
  • BOS: Andre Jackson Jr.
  • ORL: Seth Lundy
  • DEN: Sidy Cissoko
  • SAC: Jordan Walsh
  • CHA Marcus Sasser*
  • DEN: Amari Bailey
  • CHA: Rayan Rupert
  • WAS: Julian Phillips
  • POR: Chris Livingston
  • SAS: Adama Sanogo
  • MEM: Keyontae Johnson
  • ATL: Julian Strawther
  • LAL: Hunter Tyson
  • LAC: Terquavion Smith
  • CLE: Jalen Wilson
  • IND: Charles Bediako
  • BKN: Jaylen Clark
  • PHX: Colin Castleton
  • MIN: Jordan Miller
  • SAC: Kobe Brown
  • IND: Ricky Council IV
  • MEM: Mouhamed Gueye
  • WAS (via Boston): Toumani Camara
  • MIL: Emoni Bates
  • No One has the 59th but KOC Also Didn't Have Anyone to 39: Marcus Sasser*
    • [/ol]
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    Enzo The Baker
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    In reply to Guitarsoup • 2:36p, 6/20/23
    AG
    Jaquez in the top 20.
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    West Texan
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    12:27p, 6/21/23
    AG
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    Enzo The Baker
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    In reply to West Texan • 1:10p, 6/21/23
    AG
    Great move by Denver to further extend their window.
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    Guitarsoup
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    11:15p, 6/21/23
    AG
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    mavsfan4ever
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    8:19a, 6/22/23
    AG
    It's a great deal for the Celtics imo. But Washington had no leverage so I get why they aren't getting much in return.

    On the other hand, wtf is Memphis thinking? They gave up tyus and 2 firsts for Marcus smart? That's insane to me.
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    Guitarsoup
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    In reply to mavsfan4ever • 8:33a, 6/22/23
    AG
    They got back a high second for one first, so really they gave up a first next year and moved down ten spots this year.

    Not too bad
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    mavsfan4ever
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    9:14a, 6/22/23
    AG
    But also gave up tyus who is really good. He could start on many teams.
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    TheNotoriousP.I.P.
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    In reply to mavsfan4ever • 9:29a, 6/22/23
    AG
    Tyus is nice but Smart has played in 108 playoff games at 33 MPG and is only 2 years older.
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    Head Ninja In Charge
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    10:30a, 6/22/23
    AG
    Having two DPOYs rostered > Tyus Jones. Tyus has been in the league for 8 years; he's a serviceable back-up at best. Easy win for Memphis.
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    Enzo The Baker
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    In reply to Head Ninja In Charge • 10:37a, 6/22/23
    AG
    Not to mention Smart's locker room presence which that team desperately needs. Also makes $20MM a year for the next three years so great value. I think it moved Memphis to a contender. The firsts are going to mid to high 20s anyways. Not a huge deal on a team that has a big window with young players.
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    mavsfan4ever
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    1:04p, 6/22/23
    AG
    Y'all are much higher on Smart than I am. Tyus' win share was greater than Smart's last year, and Tyus is much better on the offensive end. The Grizzlies couldn't score in the playoffs last year (it was horrible to watch), and adding Smart is going to make that even worse.

    I do agree that Smart should really help out in the locker room, and I bet that's a big reason Memphis did the deal. They are hoping he can take Ja under his wing. I hadn't thought about that.
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    Iowaggie
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    2:20p, 6/22/23
    AG
    If you mutated Tyus Jones with Dillon Brooks, Marcus Smart is the result. He can play the PG position like Jones, and defend and take horrible shots like Brooks.


    Tyus Jones is a really nice pg, until it is playoff time when he turns the ball over much more often and his shooting falls off a cliff.

    If they want to pursue a free agent, the Grizzlies are closing up against the roster cap limit so the 2nd round pick, instead of the first, may end up going to someone who they know will take the 2 way contract. I'm guessing they do another trade in the next 72 hours.
    The big cost is the 2024 GSW draft pick if the Warriors fall off the cliff again this season.
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    Enzo The Baker
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    In reply to Iowaggie • 2:21p, 6/22/23
    AG
    Now doesn't seem to be the case with Warriors. Going all in next year with CP3.
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    Iowaggie
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    In reply to Enzo The Baker • 2:22p, 6/22/23
    AG
    And the 2024 draft is supposed to be relatively weak, so the risk is relatively small.
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    Enzo The Baker
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    In reply to Iowaggie • 2:26p, 6/22/23
    AG
    Exactly.
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    flashplayer
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    6:33p, 6/22/23
    AG
    Wemby rocking a Hugh Hefner robe / suit combination.
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    Broncos
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    6:50p, 6/22/23
    The spotlight ESPN did on Brandon Miller made him look even worse. Everything was about him, he commented on his points and awards with no mention for the team.

    Also, reactions to the gun questions were pretty bizarre.

    If I'm in a front office no way I'm taking him even with his talent. I'd take Scoot all day at two over him.
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    Guitarsoup
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    In reply to Broncos • 6:52p, 6/22/23
    AG
    Broncos said:
    The spotlight ESPN did on Brandon Miller made him look even worse. Everything was about him, he commented on his points and awards with no mention for the team.

    Also, reactions to the gun questions were pretty bizarre.

    If I'm in a front office no way I'm taking him even with his talent. I'd take Scoot all day at two over him.
    I cannot say it enough. He's Josh Jackson with off-court problems.

    https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-the-night-could-ve-changed-career-less-heartbeat-brandon-miller-reflects-gun-incident


    "It's all a lesson learned," the young star said. "You just always have to be aware of your surroundings and what you're surrounded by. I feel like the night could've changed my career in less than a heartbeat."


    He's a POS.
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