Harper got pulled from a game and benched for not running out a gound ball all the way through the bag. Last night, I watched Ortiz do exactly the same thing. Which of the two managers do you support?

Apples and oranges.

Harper getting pulled for that play was a ****ing joke to the game of baseball. He hit directly to the pitcher for one of the easiest outs in baseball. Matt Williams is a ****ing moron in my book

There are deeper issues afloat with Bryce Harper, I think.

And to be fair, according to a few sources including the Washington Post, Matt Williams had given the team one of those "next guy that doesn't run a ball out..." speeches a few days ago.

May be a rookie manager biting off a little more than he can or should chew, but Harper was supposedly warned.

That's retarded any way it's spun

He framed it in part to address the whole team, but with Harper, in particular, the expectations have been so high, and the frustration building after what's been some stagnation, couple it with the sulking, the yelling, the getting ejected in spring training games, maybe Harper needs a reality check every now and then.

After the objective failure that was last season, I'm sure Matt Williams came in trying to give the whole roster a reality check of sorts.

Williams is a tough, fiery dude that won't take much from anyone. That's just his personality, and that came out.

I'm not sure this was the right time or situation to do it, but its not like the guy blew up on one of the game's hard working, batting cage rats.

ortiz takes 1 min home run trots, too, but no one ****ing complains. it's hilarious how he is an admitted steroid abuser and gets the HOF treatment, and raffy palmiero gets the shaft

I agree token

Token - When did Ortiz admit to PEDs? Every time I've suggested it, the Saux fans bellie ache about how he was one of the good guys who has never even sniffed allegations....

He tested positive for roids

wait you seriously didn't know he tested positive for steroids? how ****ing good is the boston media?

Wow... not sure how I missed this:

http://mlb.si.com/2013/08/07/david-ortiz-peds-biogenesis/

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ortiz takes 1 min home run trots, too, but no one ****ing complains

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Token - When did Ortiz admit to PEDs?

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admitted shouldn't have been the word. He refuses to admit to it because he hides behind the union. He was caught red handed.

Remember this:

http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=53&topic_id=2307308&message_id=35641289&hi=1#r35641289

Who is next Pujols?! Or did I miss that, as well.

when did Matt Williams become a manager?

nothing has ever come to light about what he actually tested positive for in 2003

in 2003 there were many supplements that players took that weren't on any "banned" lists that could trigger a positive test.

He's no saint, but he shouldn't be lumped in with bonds/rodriguez/palmeiro/clemens/etc

regarding Ortiz and 'roids...last I heard he need to check with his people. That was a few years ago. Never got an update.

remarkable that he could not hit a lot of home runs playing half his games in the Metrodome. Found the HR touch once he arrived in Boston.

if Oritz didn't use 'roids, he would be about the only Dominican slugger from the 90's and 00's that did not

He only played significant portions of 4 seasons in Minnesota (really only two of which he could have been called an every day player. And as I recall it wan't a chip shot to put it over the big baggie in RF.

his HR totals steadily climbed during his "peak years" of ages 26-30 as a young slugger's should, and have leveled off to a more reasonable level during his declining years. There haven't been any big fluctuations or outlier years that would suggest abuse of PEDs

[This message has been edited by Dropkicked Murphy (edited 4/22/2014 11:56a).]

[This message has been edited by Token (edited 4/22/2014 12:11p).]

Ortiz has failed more drug tests than Clemens

So, to be clear... at 28, 2003 was his debut year in Boston... also the year he "tested positive."

He went from a 26\27 year old with a .272 \ 20 HR season in 125 games to a .288 \ 31 HR season in 128 games... the same year he tested positive.

He jumps further in 2004: 41 HR \ .301 @ 28\29.

2007 was a CRAZY: .332 \ 35 HRs. A career high.445 OBP... A Career high 1.066 OPS.

If you think 2013 - .309 30 HR at age 37\38 is typical... Umm.. Ok.


Even A-Rod falls short of Ortiz' #s.

Wow. I did not know he had failed a drug test...


Boston media did a number on me.

Did he get to hit in front of one of the best right handed bats of a generation his last few full seasons at Minnesota DA? You don't think it's possible to see a few more fastballs with Manny sitting there in the on-deck circle?

The bottom line is he may have tested positive for something in 2003 (3 years prior to when the current MLB steroid policy was adopted). If a positive test came out, the substance he took should be able to be easily obtained. So why hasn't the specific substance been named?

Because whatever it was, the testers obviously determined it wasn't a big enough deal to go to the trouble of making it public. If it would've been the high profile steroids or HGH that everyone always thinks about in cases like this, they would've dragged him out in the open just like they did with bonds and a-rod and braun. They had/have no reason to protect Ortiz if he really is guilty of something that is truly egregious.

Token
mvm
DA94
Bond
IPA


Haters hatin'!

Kiss the rings biatches!

I don't glorify cheaters but congratulations

And see here are the Saux deniers I so aptly mentioned.

DKM

I don't know that they ever tested for HGH in those years.

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Did he get to hit in front of one of the best right handed bats of a generation his last few full seasons at Minnesota DA? You don't think it's possible to see a few more fastballs with Manny sitting there in the on-deck circle?

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Oh... you mean a 3-time positive tester? So, you want to defend his positive PED testing by saying he hit in front of a well documented PED user. Genius.

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Kiss the rings biatches!

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Lance Armstrong says hi!



I don't like him... don't like Ortiz... don't celebrate known cheaters...

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Lance Armstrong says hi!

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Armstrong is a dewsh.

Papi isn't.

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Because whatever it was, the testers obviously determined it wasn't a big enough deal to go to the trouble of making it public. If it would've been the high profile steroids or HGH that everyone always thinks about in cases like this, they would've dragged him out in the open just like they did with bonds and a-rod and braun. They had/have no reason to protect Ortiz if he really is guilty of something that is truly egregious.

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I think you're confusing the 2003 survey testing with Biogenesis.

But it really doesn't matter. It's been repeatedly proven that drug testing for steroids can be beaten. A positive test can be seen as a confirmation that a person is using, but a lack of a positive test is far from proof that a player is clean.

Just assume that most players are on some sort of PED and be fine with it. It's a pretty arbitrary line between what's allowed and what's not anyway. You're just setting yourself up for disappointment otherwise.

Players are going to continue using PEDs as long as it keeps paying off with mega contracts.

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I don't glorify cheaters

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Better chance than not that you do and just don't realize it.

that 3 time positive tester didn't test positive while he was in Boston, DA.

and even if he had, it doesn't matter. Because we're not talking about him, we're talking about Ortiz. Ortiz got to hit in a much better lineup than he did in Minnesota, and his best years were all within the parameters of a normal slugger's "prime" years. Neither of those two facts are up for debate.

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I don't glorify cheaters

Better chance than not that you do and just don't realize it.

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Everyone hates a guy who cheated (as long as he plays for another team).

[This message has been edited by Say Chowdah (edited 4/22/2014 6:09p).]

I hated ken caminiti once I found out he was a cheater

You have your head in the sand if you think that some combination of Biggio, Bagwell, Beltran, Berkman, Lidge, Everett and whoever your other favorite players happened to be weren't on PEDs just like everyone else. You're still celebrating cheaters; it's just that you're celebrating the ones who managed to not get caught.

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You have your head in the sand if you think that some combination of Biggio, Bagwell, Beltran, Berkman, Lidge, Everett and whoever your other favorite players happened to be weren't on PEDs just like everyone else. You're still celebrating cheaters; it's just that you're celebrating the ones who managed to not get caught.

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You're high as a ****ing kite if you think any of those guys were juicers. The ONLY one ever even discussed was Bagwell and there is zero proof pointing to him doing so. IF it ever came to light that he did use PEDs then I absolutely would change my view of him. And although I don't believe beltran juiced, who ****ing cares? I hate Carlos Beltran.