The Mets pitching staff is hitting .014 this year. Even their hitting coach is saying it is time to use the DH!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/sports/baseball/now-not-batting-for-the-mets-a-sorely-needed-designated-hitter.html?_r=0

I thought this was a Chris Carter thread.

The Mets regular lineup normally hits .016, so I'm not sure they're the best club to make this argument.

This part of the game should NEVER change. This is real baseball. /NL baseball purists

Yeah, just decided to look at Bartolo Colon swinging gifs. Sorry, work I was supposed to get done today.

Automatic Strikeouts

Yeah, they're definitely all automatic outs. People forget that Randy Johnson actually swung a lot like Josh Hamilton.

I was HOPING that Coconut Ed would come on here to defend this!

Good to see that someone compiled the 15 or so times out of 7000 at bats a year a pitcher actually deserves to hold a bat!

The rest of the time the only wood they should ever lay a hand on is in when he sits down in the dugout after his inning is over.

I mean, did you actually watch those gifs of Colon and Johnson? Can you honestly say the game is better served with them in the batters box? And guess what, it isn't going to get any better for pitchers. Their hitting performance is ONLY going to get worse.

And Capt, please post more gifs! Those are awesome!

It's a joke to have them hit. The game has changed. They are too specialized now. They often hit too little before getting to the majors (yes, some pitchers play other positions and are good, but it's rare). It's just flat out stupid to have them hit.

Bartolo Colon has like 1 hit in the last ten years.

[This message has been edited by Corporal punishment (edited 5/21/2014 12:46p).]

Oh, and Chowdah, it's only May so lets not give up on them just yet.

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It's a joke to have them hit. The game has changed. They are too specialized now. They often hit too little before getting to the majors (yes, some pitchers play other positions and are good, but it's rare). It's just flat out stupid to have them hit.

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This.

At one point in history, pitchers were the best hitters (Babe Ruth is the obvious example), hence the reason they were in the lineup. The AL decided to adapt to the change, while the NL is being a stick in the mud.

pitchers hitting

The one thing about forcing the pitchers to bat is that it forces the managers to be more creative and make tough decisions, with pinch hitters and double switches, etc. With a DH, that aspect of the game is taken away. But DH's offer more excitement to the average fan, and I understand that.

I'm fine with adding a dh

They just need to go to 23 man rosters too if that happens

Keep both leagues the way they are and sh*tcan interleague play.

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Keep both leagues the way they are and sh*tcan interleague play.

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I'd be ok with this..

Except it's not possible with an odd amount of teams in each league.

It's all the Astros fault

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I was HOPING that Coconut Ed would come on here to defend this!

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Sorry if I prefer the late inning chess moves and lineup changes to the static same-same lineups that result from the DH. I'm also sorry that I enjoy weird situations like this that would never happen in a DH game.

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Sorry if I prefer the late inning chess moves and lineup changes

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I get that.

I just prefer to watch players that actually belong in the batters box for all 9 batters and ALL 9 innings rather than this chess move you talk about that is so damn overblown.

Yeah, the AL never pinch hits or changes relievers late....

That's right...just like pitchers never get hits.

I'm sorry if I'm not fascinated by the manager "brilliance" required to manage around his no hitting pitcher. It's about the same as watching a little league coach put a lineup together that includes a special needs kid.

The game isn't more pure just because someone that can't hit his way out of a paper bag is required to be in the lineup.

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just like pitchers never get hits.

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Who said "never".

I conceded in my OP that that the Mets pitchers have ONE this season! YEAH! ONE!!!!! How amazing is that? ONE HIT IN 71 at bats!

I mean it would really be something if they were .000 like they were a week ago. But at this pace we can reasonably expect them to have as many as 5 this season!!!! Yeah!!! 5 hits.

A crappy 8 or 9 hole hitting is hitting what, .250, at best? What's your average SS or C hitting? Those guys are usually there for their gloves. So over the course they are gonna hit 100 to 150 points higher than most pitchers? Not that great. Maybe we should do away with all position players that hit above a certain average and let a DH take their spot.

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A crappy 8 or 9 hole hitting is hitting what, .250, at best? What's your average SS or C hitting? Those guys are usually there for their gloves. So over the course they are gonna hit 100 to 150 points higher than most pitchers? Not that great. Maybe we should do away with all position players that hit above a certain average and let a DH take their spot.

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100 points is HUGE. And this argument is dumb. Position players play daily. They spend significant time practicing hitting. Pitchers play every 5 days. They grow up not hitting because the DH is in so many levels. We then force them to hit MLB pitching. It is flat out stupid.

I am an Astros fan. I used to be a NL cheerleader purist. I used to talk about loving the managing strategy blah blah blah.


I've watched 1.3 season of AL baseball and the DH needs to become universal. I guarantee you not one of you asked outside of the stadium, "why did you buy this ticket?" would say, "I shelled out my hard earned dollars to watch Bo Porter have to make a double switch in the 8th so he can pinch hit for his LOOGY" or "I don't mind dropping big money to see my favorite pitcher bat."

You pay $ to see pitcher pitch. You pay $ to see hitters smash the ball.

Is it tradition? Yes. Does it need to change? Yes.

Yep, pitchers shouldn't hit. They can't do it. I'd be interested to see pitchers' batting average overall in years prior to and after the DH was first adopted. We all know that pitchers have gotten worse at hitting since the DH rule, because they are no longer asked to hit at lower levels, but how much worse? What we know right now is that arguably the greatest hitter in the history of the game would have been a pitcher in the DH era.

I'd also be interested in seeing fielding statistics for DH's. The designated hitter is that time in a player's career when he can no longer play the game, but he can still swing a bat.

Babe Ruth is an anomaly that is so far back it has zero relevance to the argument today. He pitched 100 more innings in a season than any pitcher did last year. Just stupid to compare and even assume he would have pitched given today's game.

It's fairly safe to assume that since he was signed as a pitcher, and was a good pitcher, that he would have continued pitching. With a DH rule, nobody would have ever known he could hit, because he wouldn't have picked up a bat for years before getting to the majors. It would be stupid to ignore this fact.

How many more have we not seen? How many above average hitters stopped batting early on because they were good pitchers? Or stopped pitching because they were good hitters? Is it not allowed to be good at both?

You're basically proving the point by arguing a 100 year old example. The NL clinging to the old days and ignoring reality is doing nothing but resulting in a crapload of terrible AB's. The game has become specialized, the game is played differently now, and players are developed differently. One league clinging to the old rule isn't going to change any of that.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/22/2014 3:55p).]

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They grow up not hitting because the DH is in so many levels.

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Funny, the way I remember it growing up, the best players I played with were all pitchers that could also hit pretty well.

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The game has become specialized, the game is played differently now, and players are developed differently.

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And this is good for the game? If you follow this line of thinking to its logical conclusion, you would have 100% free substitution; just send your best hitter to the plate every at bat and use your three best base runners to run the bases as necessary, and have a defensive lineup dedicated completely to fielding that doesn't bat at all. Would you support that?

[This message has been edited by coconutED (edited 5/22/2014 4:05p).]

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If you follow this line of thinking to its logical conclusion, you would have 100% free substitution; just send your best hitter to the plate every at bat and use your three best base runners to run the bases as necessary, and have a defensive lineup dedicated completely to fielding that doesn't bat at all. Would you support that?

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What leagues offer any of those suggestions now? The argument is whether the pitcher hitting makes sense today. It does not.