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And this is good for the game? If you follow this line of thinking to its logical conclusion, you would have 100% free substitution; just send your best hitter to the plate every at bat and use your three best base runners to run the bases as necessary, and have a defensive lineup dedicated completely to fielding that doesn't bat at all. Would you support that?

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I love this good ol' straw man argument. Not one damn person who wants the DH would argue for that.

Babe Ruth played in an era that is and was very different. If you want to play 1900 style baseball, then go join this http://www.vbba.org/ and lose your glove and everything.

Here's your proof (I hope the statistic wRC+ isn't too new fangled for yal, it's the best total offensive output measure).

That graph is just perfect.

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And this is good for the game? If you follow this line of thinking to its logical conclusion, you would have 100% free substitution; just send your best hitter to the plate every at bat and use your three best base runners to run the bases as necessary, and have a defensive lineup dedicated completely to fielding that doesn't bat at all. Would you support that?

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As pointed out, this is a ridiculous strawman. We're not discussing some slippery slope, grandpa. We're just dealing with the reality of changes that already happened .... decades ago.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/22/2014 4:59p).]

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Not one damn person who wants the DH would argue for that.

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Why not? You are OK with replacing one guy with a better hitter, why not everyone else?

Per ESPN at this moment, the Red Sox currently have a team batting average of 0.246, but the best regular hitter (Xander Bogaerts) has a BA of 0.283.

Victor Martinez of the Tigers has a batting average of 0.327, while his team averages 0.276.

All of MLB has a batting average of 0.251, while the top 30 best averages range from 0.303 to 0.380 with a median of 0.317.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est!!!!!!!

Don't understand why AL fans feel that the NL needs the DH? Anyways, how pitching staffs are used these days the starter at most will get 3 ABs in a game and if that happens things are likely going quite well so anything the pitcher contributes is a bonus.

[This message has been edited by jkag89 (edited 5/22/2014 5:35p).]

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Why not? You are OK with replacing one guy with a better hitter, why not everyone else?

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Because those guys play every day and hit in every league they play in. You cannot really be this stupid.

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Not one damn person who wants the DH would argue for that.

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Why not? You are OK with replacing one guy with a better hitter, why not everyone else?

Per ESPN at this moment, the Red Sox currently have a team batting average of 0.246, but the best regular hitter (Xander Bogaerts) has a BA of 0.283.

Victor Martinez of the Tigers has a batting average of 0.327, while his team averages 0.276.

All of MLB has a batting average of 0.251, while the top 30 best averages range from 0.303 to 0.380 with a median of 0.317.

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Here's how you are arguing man: Why don't you just have all the pitchers and the bullpen hit? I mean, you want 1 pitcher to hit! Why not all of them?! The fielders can just field and then nothing but pitchers hit?! That's your logic.



Is straw man argument all you do?

[This message has been edited by irish pete ag06 (edited 5/22/2014 5:47p).]

[This message has been edited by irish pete ag06 (edited 5/22/2014 5:48p).]

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Because those guys play every day and hit in every league they play in.

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Ah, so if, in the course of the evolution of the game, this statement were to no longer be applicable to one of the other positions (say, the catcher, for example), then you would support a DH for that person as well, correct?

Coconut.






None of us want a DH for other positions. Not one person has said that besides you. Our logic doesn't lead down that path.

This rule is over 40 years old. I think we can give up worrying about the baseball world going to hell in a handbasket over the DH rule. Give up the slippery slope bull**** about wanting other players replaced, etc. It's a simple rule that has been executed the same way for 40 years and no one is asking or considering changing it further.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/22/2014 5:57p).]

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Ah, so if, in the course of the evolution of the game, this statement were to no longer be applicable to one of the other positions (say, the catcher, for example), then you would support a DH for that person as well, correct?

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Maybe after 40 years. I sure as hell wouldn't want it now though. And doing that is completely different than doing it for pitchers like the DH did.

In the 5 years leading up to the DH you had a total of 2 pitchers above 100 (average hitter) in wRC+. When another position does that we can have that conversation.

CoconutEd returns with the drama queen argument.

One thing changed and the whole game will follow suit.... Yada, yada, yada.

And the AL fans wouldn't care what the NL does except for God damned inter league being played every night.

[This message has been edited by Say chowdah (edited 5/22/2014 7:09p).]

I admit the DH is not the most logical thing in the world, but pitchers hitting has proven to be idealistic. I'm willing to surrender the ideal for good baseball.

And the "strategy" argument is an argument FOR the DH in my opinion. "Hey, I'm going to take out my ace in the 6th so that I can put in my best bench lefty to get a lefty/ righty matchup. Exciting, right?"

Each team plays 18 interleague games which means each AL team has to suffer through 9 whole games out of a 162 without the DH. Oh Noes!!!!!!!!!

The one nice thing about the current rules is the AL advantage in inter league and World Series.

It comes down to $$$$.

That is all.

Pitchers aren't paid to hit. Fans aren't paying to see them hit.

Pitchers, managers, pitching coaches and hitting coaches don't get bonuses for a pitcher getting high averages, home runs or RBIs from their hitting pitchers.

So why have them hit?

[This message has been edited by Say Chowdah (edited 5/22/2014 9:53p).]

Every superstar position player isn't paid big $$$ for the most part what they do in the field, yet they field those positions.

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Pitchers, managers, pitching coaches and hitting coaches don't get bonuses for a pitcher getting high averages, home runs or RBIs from their hitting pitchers

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They are paid to win games, if having a decent hitting pitching staff helps them win, they would work to get them to handle the bat for those two or three times they go to the plate every five days. Again why all the angst for the nine games out of 162 the poor AL fans have to endure a game without the DH.

[This message has been edited by jkag89 (edited 5/23/2014 5:38a).]

Coconut, I watched your link and I'm a bit confused. What is so brilliant and "cool" about a manager burning through every non-pitcher in the late innings, only to have a pitcher play the field, and ironically be the last out of the game at the plate? Do you enjoy roy o catching a flyball THAT much? Why don't you just google "cat jumping thru window"

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Again why all the angst for the nine games out of 162 the poor AL fans have to endure a game without the DH.

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I'm an AL guy and think this is a fair point.

Leave the NL alone and let their pitchers hit.

Jettison the Astros back to the NL where they want to be, sh*tcan interleague play, and move along.

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Jettison the Astros back to the NL where they want to be, sh*tcan interleague play, and move along.

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Make me the commish and I'll make it happen. I'll even allow the DH in every All-Star game.

It amuses me how people keep bringing up Babe Ruth. From 1914 through 1917, he hit a total of 9 home runs and 108 hits in 361 at bats.

That's pretty decent for a pitcher, but he didn't start tearing it up until he transitioned to being an everyday player in the outfield.

Oh, and Rick Ankiel's average as a pitcher was only .206 with 1 extra base hit.

There's just no way to become proficient at hitting major league pitching when you only see it every 5th day.

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It amuses me how people keep bringing up Babe Ruth. From 1914 through 1917, he hit a total of 9 home runs and 108 hits in 361 at bats

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Accomplished during the dead ball era when where it was not all that unusual that the home run leader for the league would not reach double digits.

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...he didn't start tearing it up until he transitioned to being an everyday player in the outfield.

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And why did they try this transition for a pitcher with numbers that Ruth had on the mound, because he showed great potential at the plate. He would never have had the chance to show that potential if the DH existed when Ruth played.

Mets pitcher Jacob deGrom is batting .800

...and he looks like Howard Stern.

Ryu has a perfect game going thru 7 IP and is running the bases. Thought y'all would like to know.