swimming causes impingement on the shoulder (rotator cuff) its the same overhead trouble as throwing. However, doing Jobe program in the pool is awesome and I do agree that the pool is great for legs and core. Get a float board that you hold in front and kick back and forth. Thats an incredible workout.

Long toss is great but it's rarely defined properly. There should not be much air under the ball. Once you can't reach the target on a line (with maybe a small hump), you shouldn't go any further (consistent release points). The higher the arc the more you recoil instead of finishing through the throw.

Proper throwing is about getting the most backspin on the ball as possible and that is done from the ground up and with tremendous finish from wrist to fingertips (effortless carry on the ball equals less pressure on vulnerable muscles/ligaments in the shoulder and elbow).

Hitters who generate the most backspin hit the most home runs (and they make it look easy). The same ball flight principals apply to throwing. As someone said, chest to glove is correct to avoid a lazy front side and allow for a compact rotation (pressure off shoulder). Firm legs with torso rotation is good too. A loose grip with quick and thorough finish with the hand and fingers (using the big muscles of the forearm), takes pressure off the vulnerable parts of your elbow.

Watch the best players play easy catch or a catcher throw it back to the pitcher. It looks like they are shooting a free throw with a lower release point ("goose neck"). That's not an accident. Fingertip use is huge in throwing a football, baseball, and shooting basketball. It's where touch and control come from. Feel the seems under your fingertips and spin the ball through the chest of the target (forearm perpendicular to the ground, hand behind the ball, fingertips across seems, wrist cocked back just before finish).

Finally, high level pitchers aren't made when they're young kids. Anyone with a gift and use of proper throwing technique from other positions can pitch quite well at age 14 without ever trying it before. Sticking to low pitch counts and rest (lots of rest), are critical. I'd like to say to not ever let your young kid pitch but it's fun. It's also a great test of their ability to perform when they are the center of attention. It's a rush. I just hate seeing coaches ask for more mileage from a kids arm than is necessary.

OP seems like his head is in the right place so his kid will be fine!



[This message has been edited by Sandman98 (edited 7/21/2014 4:49p).]

Sandman - thanks for your input. My son just came back from camp where they had talked about the importance of using your fingers. It is all making sense to me now. I had always thrown with stiff fingers. I guess that's why I never pitched!

As an update - baseball is over now (2nd place at state) so we are taking a break for a while (other than camp).

I have watched him throw a little closer. He is definitely using more arm than he should. And I've determined that his front placement is due to him opening his shoulders too soon (probably causing him to use his arm too much). im hoping we can clean that up, but if not, I am reconsidering all this.

Weaver is interesting because he looks like a mess but eventually gets right here, which is perfect IMO.

Don't teach this. I'll stop now. Good luck to you and your son.

Give your kid a football and let him throw it around. Stretches the hand out and will strengthen the arm. I do it with the kids I workout. Usually what we'll do is;
-I'll have them run some routes with me throwing to get them warmed up
-then we'll start with the feet planted, using their mid sections mainly, throwing and backing up every 10 throws or so. Once they're loose, they're throwing bullets
- we'll then basically long toss with a football
- then we'll get the baseball out and do a similar routine

The throwing with the feet planted is a good way to teach them to use their mid section. Whether you teach pulling down on the oblique or rotating throughout the core, this drill will help. It also loosens up the mid section so you don't pull an oblique.

I understand the thought behind the towel still not being effective because you don't use a towel, however I've done a lot of stuff with kids who it's helped with tremendously. Young kids don't know how to finish, this helps that. If they don't finish, they're more likely to get hurt.

-Teach balance with mechanics.
-Proper elbow height
-Front side stays closed (glove/pinky to pit)
-Show the hitter your butt. It'll keep them closed.

Look up the Jaeger throwing program on youtube. If you're set on long toss programs, I've heard guys had success with it. I did it my last year in college.

One saying I tell all my pitchers to engrain in their heads is, "Stay back, stay closed."

Get someone that knows what they are doing and let him throw with them a few times so they can correct any mistakes. The Twelve has some great pitching coaches. Throwing correctly is just as important as pitching.

Before you sign junior up for travel ball:

http://www.cleveland.com/dman/index.ssf/2013/02/noted_surgeon_dr_james_andrews.html

quote:

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Where are you located at? I can recommend some awesome coaches in both Dallas and the CS/Houston area.

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FC12 - if you're still following this thread then I would really appreciate some recommendations for Dallas.

We've got a 9 year old that is going to be pitching for the first time in LL Fall ball. He just had his first practice with pitching tryouts and we're already getting emails from the coach & other dads about working with him and/or finding a pitching coach, so either he impressed them with some natural talent and/or the other dads don't know anything more than I do (which is absolutely nothing).


[This message has been edited by agent-maroon (edited 8/17/2014 9:54a).]

Colin Charland with the Arlington A's. He was my instructor for years....helped me get drafted so I trust him.

Thanks!

Brandon Agamennone at Pro Choice.

Just an update on my son (I know you all care)

We have been throwing 2-3 times a week, never more than 30 or so pitches. We long-toss here and there but usually just a few as a part of warming up. He is a little wild, so I told him to not throw as hard for now and concentrate on throwing strikes. It has helped, and each time we practice he has gotten better. He still throws harder than most kids his age while backing off.

He got to pitch for the first time last weekend and did well. He only faced two batters and got a put out and a strikeout. We were getting killed so it was a good low pressure situation for him. I was proud he kept his composure and was able to throw enough strikes to get the outs. This was two games into a doubleheader too, so he was really tired.

I taught him the 3 finger changeup and he throws a 4 seam fastball. He has thrown a 2 seam, but I have not encouraged that one as he sometimes loses his grip on the ball. Yesterday, he threw one to me that started outside but then tailed in and down. I asked him what he did and he said "I dont know, I didnt pay attention to my grip. I just threw it." I've never been able to tail a ball like that!

I know everyone thinks their kid is an All-star, but it sure is going to be fun watching this kid grow up.. haha!

My 9yo son pitched his first game tonight. Four strike outs, 2 walks, no hits, and nobody scored in two innings worth of work (40 pitches). Not bad for a rookie making his first start.

Ours is tall and lanky. He did TaeKwonDo from age 8 to 10. After that he was much better at all sports. I don't know if there is any correlation. He also played basketball and soccer from age 4 to age 10. Our U14 baseball coach only has his son playing soccer, he doesn't think T-ball is beneficial for baseball.

WHEN THEY ARE OLDER... I don't know if any of this would be appropriate for younger kids. This is all new to me. Our's just started this after he turned 13 and moved from LL to a select U14 High School prep team. He's been in it a month now.

Tubing Cord program - to strengthen and maintain stamina in the all-important rotator cuff region of the shoulder. They pull an elastic band overhead with the arms going strait up in an arching motion, and around the sides with the arms parallel to the ground. They do this in both directions.

Shoulder Workout program - strengthens the all-important rotator cuff muscles of the shoulders. They hold a few balls in each hand and do tight circles with the arms extended, parallel to the ground.

Medicine Ball - step-back shot put, step slam, rotational slam. Google it.

They do a lot of speed and agility training = leg pain. This includes flipping big tires and fancy footwork. Everyone does a lot of long toss, first thing after running two laps to open practice. When throwing indoors, they hang a home plate from the ceiling with bright yellow straps. Every non pitcher throws between the straps and the pitchers aim for various locations on the plates as instructed by the coach (mostly low and outside).

The only thing that he's doing outside of baseball is running three miles twice a week. I would not recommend that much running until your doing high school prep. He loves the running though, and he loves being the fastest kid on the team for the first time even more. One more thing to think about; There are 13 kids on a Varsity Baseball team. You have to be a great pitcher or catcher and great at least one more position.

Our job is to keep it fun, or not make it miserable. Luckily, that has been easy so far. Does any of this stuff work? I expected our's to struggle his first time on a 60' 6" mound after last pitching on a 46' LL mound, two months earlier. He didn't do as well, he did better and had only been doing this training for three weeks. He never had a single practice throw from an outdoor 60' 6" mound before his first game.

Batting:
The coaches presented a batting "approach" on Saturday and the team swept a double header on Sunday where that approach won both games. I'm starting to think it was a setup (as in our coach knew the team we were about to play was in love with breaking pitches). The approach is to look for fastballs, don't swing at breaking pitches and expand the zone with two strikes. New to me, anyway.

One more "select" Tid-bit: If your kid is good, he'll play every out. Some hardly play at all. The daddy coaches and entitled types are not going to like it. Ran into a kid who's been select since ten and compared to the kids who did LL through thirteen and only three months in select, all that extra baseball didn't help him at all.

As our kid's first fall 14 U select season ends, I surprisingly had a couple more comments/observations. Not that anyone will ever read this far.

Two of the best players are the youngest, just turned 13 in July. More great catchers are needed!

Going from a drop twelve bat to a drop three worked for us. In the last tournament ours was back to his LL on base average. Most went drop five and it did help them in the first few weeks.

Three months is enough time to adjust from a LL field to a major league field.

A high school prep select team is about as competitive as the lower LL levels. Some select teams collect more higher quality players, but they don't appear to help develope those players any more than the other teams.

Too much is bad, we have two pitchers who can't go more than two innings before stopping with shoulder pain and another who had to stop pitching for six weeks because of "Little League arm".

Jogging really helps.

Our's had his first half hour pitching lesson. They tweaked his windup and motion. It seemed to work. We might do another.

We are doing winter ball. This will most likely be our last time, judging by what I hear from the other parents who have done winter ball before.

We have a wide range of players from average to all stars and they are all improving at their own pace. Most importantly, they are all having fun.

It's hard to believe we were in LL three months ago.