Hadn't seen this on here anywhere. I think he makes good points.

NSFW language.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFFQkQ6Va3A

Hadn't seen this on here anywhere. I think he makes good points.

NSFW language.

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I must have missed his points.

Baseball would have more blacks if we let them showboat?!

Attendance wouldn't have dropped since the mid-90s if they hadn't have had the attendance boom inflated by the Roid Era, which brought in a bunch of non-baseball fans and turned off real baseball fans?!

Seems his only points.

Gosh, that seemed like a very small part of his point, to me.

The main thing I took out was that Baseball has failed to evolve as our population has evolved. Baseball games taking 3+ hours is insane. And did you miss all his points about how Baseball is so enamored with history and the 'old days'? The 'good old days' were not really very good for people of color.

Only part of what he said that I'll pick apart is his point about Howard College dropping baseball.

That's likely due to Title IX more than anything, so his point about money is mostly irrelevant.

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Baseball games taking 3+ hours is insane.

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Same exact length of an NFL game

Correlate when they started to test for PEDs and attendance drop.

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Baseball games taking 3+ hours is insane.

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Same exact length of an NFL game

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But the NFL plays once a week. Asking me to dedicate 3 hours a night 162 times (virtually every day) is a very diff thing.

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So much of what he said didn't make sense and certainly didn't have any dependencies or correlations.

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It makes sense to me. I have 3 kids and have a hell of time getting them to watch a baseball game.

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If shorter games would attract more fans, then we should see a boom.

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Not that this is the sole factor, but it is significant. Baseball knows they have a problem with this.

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Which brings up the real last point... Maybe instead of calling baseball a racist sport that allows whitey to remember the good ole days of slavery and oppression of blacks, maybe it is that the father-son attraction of what made baseball popular is no longer attractive to a broken family where you don't have a father playing catch with his son?!

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Sure, that is a factor, but you've got to face it in a realistic manner.

And I think you're focusing on the race thing the wrong way.

The only point he's making is that many white folks have a hard time understanding why blacks aren't nostalgic about the good old days. Sure, he does it in a more abrasive way because he's a comedian, but the underlying point is legitimate.

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The demographics of sports is well documented. The DMN did a report of the typical fan that attends a Stars, Mavericks, Rangers and Cowboys game. They attract different fans. For many reasons.

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Sure, to an extent. I just think that if Baseball continues to view things the way they always have, it comes across to me as just sticking their head in the sand.

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It makes sense to me. I have 3 kids and have a hell of time getting them to watch a baseball game.

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I have 4 and only my youngest has shown ANY interest in baseball. I don't think the length of games has any relevance. I can't get them to watch an AB, let alone an inning. They've been to lots of games at a younger age, and mostly wanted to walk around or play in the OF.

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Not that this is the sole factor, but it is significant. Baseball knows they have a problem with this.

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Every sport wants to attract more fans. Yes, people are moving away from baseball. Other sports are growing. Baseball sold it's soul to PEDs. It is a turnoff to me and I'm not pushing my kids to baseball because 14% of MLB players have an exception to use Adderall, while only 4% of the population has been diagnosed with it. They lost credibility when it was determined A-Rod was allowed to use PEDs when he won the MVP and then they turn around and suspend him for a year for using them. They allow Chris Davis to use Adderall in 2013 and 2015 legally, but suspend him in 2014 for it. In fact, IIRC, he missed games in 2015 for testing positive for Adderall in 2014, yet can legally take it during those games he was suspended.

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And I think you're focusing on the race thing the wrong way.

The only point he's making is that many white folks have a hard time understanding why blacks aren't nostalgic about the good old days. Sure, he does it in a more abrasive way because he's a comedian, but the underlying point is legitimate.

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Maybe I heard him wrong. I heard him imply white people focused on the nostalgia because it pushed blacks away from baseball. He stopped just short of accusing baseball fans of being racist and intentionally pushing them away.

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Sure, to an extent. I just think that if Baseball continues to view things the way they always have, it comes across to me as just sticking their head in the sand.

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I'm still not getting your point or his. Baseball should move away from the historical reference and nostalgia of the game in order to attract more black people? IMO, everything baseball is about, is the history. and today's reference to it. The whole baseball cards thing is about comparing stats and the history. The whole autograph phenom centers around the increased value over time.

His whole spiel is offensive to me. He seems to imply baseball is missing something because one demographic is losing interest. The NBA and the NFL isn't less of a sport because there is a lack of white people playing in their leagues.

I don't care if a player comes from the Bronx, from Suburb America or an island in the Caribbean.

I don't think it is Whitey's fault that AAs are losing interest in MLB. I believe there are MANY reasons AAs are losing interest, and none of them are because of Whitey or racist white owners who intentionally make the game too white.

Here is another good nugget... if you are a youth athlete who knows sports are the path out of poverty, you have two things of interest. First, might be a college scholarship, the Second, a path to a payday.

Compare the Big 3 - Football, Basketball & Baseball.

Schools (Colleges) with programs:
Football - 891. 129 FBS X 85 Scholarships = 10,965 FULL scholarships Total.
Basketball - 2,035 Total. 351 @D1 X 13 Scholarships = 4563 FULL scholarships Total.
Baseball - 1,667. 300 NCAA I X 11.7 Scholarships = 3510* PARTIAL scholarships Total.

A typical NCAA I team has 35 athletes, so you are looking at about a 1/3 of a scholarship.

If you are a poor inner city AA kid, 1/3 of a scholarship isn't going to help. Many of those kids on football and basketball scholarships struggle... How much more if their scholarship only covered 1/3 of their education cost. So... baseball is not a path to college for AAs, as such, that is a real problem to increased numbers of AA.

This 2008 study by MLB indicated over 2/3 drafted players (67.8%) came from Colleges.

Of those from HS that get drafted... many of those may go to college. Many are drafted in the later rounds which means they don't get much money.

That is the 2nd path to MLB. You get drafted out of HS and spend the next 5-6 years making about $1K/mo living in shared quarters in very poor conditions. Many don't see that as a path out. Where as, from the islands... getting the promise of shelter and meals and an opportunity in America is VERY attractive.

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Every sport wants to attract more fans. Yes, people are moving away from baseball. Other sports are growing. Baseball sold it's soul to PEDs. It is a turnoff to me and I'm not pushing my kids to baseball because 14% of MLB players have an exception to use Adderall, while only 4% of the population has been diagnosed with it. They lost credibility when it was determined A-Rod was allowed to use PEDs when he won the MVP and then they turn around and suspend him for a year for using them. They allow Chris Davis to use Adderall in 2013 and 2015 legally, but suspend him in 2014 for it. In fact, IIRC, he missed games in 2015 for testing positive for Adderall in 2014, yet can legally take it during those games he was suspended.

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Agree with you.

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Maybe I heard him wrong. I heard him imply white people focused on the nostalgia because it pushed blacks away from baseball. He stopped just short of accusing baseball fans of being racist and intentionally pushing them away.

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He's not accusing anyone of BEING racists. He's simply voicing a black perspective. Simply put - The Good Old Days were not good for people of color. Period. It's not your fault or mine. He's just voicing a perspective that he believes is prevalent in the black community.

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His whole spiel is offensive to me.

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I really think you are reading too much into it from a personal perspective. He's not calling white people that like baseball racist.

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He seems to imply baseball is missing something because one demographic is losing interest. The NBA and the NFL isn't less of a sport because there is a lack of white people playing in their leagues.

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I think this is where you missed his point. He's not so much talking about Black people as he is the 'hip hop culture'. It is a major force in the world. White kids are a part of this. The hip hop culture is not as much about race as it is youth.

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I don't care if a player comes from the Bronx, from Suburb America or an island in the Caribbean.

I don't think it is Whitey's fault that AAs are losing interest in MLB. I believe there are MANY reasons AAs are losing interest, and none of them are because of Whitey or racist white owners who intentionally make the game too white.

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Again, I think you are personalizing this.

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Here is another good nugget... if you are a youth athlete who knows sports are the path out of poverty, you have two things of interest. First, might be a college scholarship, the Second, a path to a payday.

Compare the Big 3 - Football, Basketball & Baseball.

Schools (Colleges) with programs:
Football - 891. 129 FBS X 85 Scholarships = 10,965 FULL scholarships Total.
Basketball - 2,035 Total. 351 @D1 X 13 Scholarships = 4563 FULL scholarships Total.
Baseball - 1,667. 300 NCAA I X 11.7 Scholarships = 3510* PARTIAL scholarships Total.

A typical NCAA I team has 35 athletes, so you are looking at about a 1/3 of a scholarship.

If you are a poor inner city AA kid, 1/3 of a scholarship isn't going to help. Many of those kids on football and basketball scholarships struggle... How much more if their scholarship only covered 1/3 of their education cost. So... baseball is not a path to college for AAs, as such, that is a real problem to increased numbers of AA.

This 2008 study by MLB indicated over 2/3 drafted players (67.8%) came from Colleges.

Of those from HS that get drafted... many of those may go to college. Many are drafted in the later rounds which means they don't get much money.

That is the 2nd path to MLB. You get drafted out of HS and spend the next 5-6 years making about $1K/mo living in shared quarters in very poor conditions. Many don't see that as a path out. Where as, from the islands... getting the promise of shelter and meals and an opportunity in America is VERY attractive.

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No question that college baseball has a huge issue with this. It's a major problem and I have heard several college baseball coaches speak out on it.

This is a multifaceted issue.

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Baseball games taking 3+ hours is insane.

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Same exact length of an NFL game

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But the NFL plays once a week. Asking me to dedicate 3 hours a night 162 times (virtually every day) is a very diff thing.

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But 2 hours a night, 162 times would be just fine?

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Baseball games taking 3+ hours is insane.

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Same exact length of an NFL game

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But the NFL plays once a week. Asking me to dedicate 3 hours a night 162 times (virtually every day) is a very diff thing.

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But 2 hours a night, 162 times would be just fine?

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That's better. Yes.

3 hour baseball game are too damn long. And Baseball knows this and they are trying to address it. If it weren't an issue, they wouldn't both trying to fix it.

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Baseball games taking 3+ hours is insane.

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Same exact length of an NFL game

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But the NFL plays once a week. Asking me to dedicate 3 hours a night 162 times (virtually every day) is a very diff thing.

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But 2 hours a night, 162 times would be just fine?

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That's better. Yes.

3 hour baseball game are too damn long. And Baseball knows this and they are trying to address it. If it weren't an issue, they wouldn't both trying to fix it.

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No doubt it's an issue, just saying the comparison to an NFL game isn't as relevant... The total hour differential between an NFL team's "season" and a MLB team's "season" is enormous whether it's a 2.5 hour MLB game or a 3 hour MLB game.

Do you have that link that has the dmn info on types of fans demo?

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Do you have that link that has the dmn info on types of fans demo?

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I looked briefly, but couldn't find it... and it was actually the demographics for the STHs.

It basically said a lot of what we know, but the typical STH was:

Stars - Upper middle class, white male professional living in Frisco
MLB - Upper Middle Class, white male living in the suburbs
Cowboys - IIRC, it was a pretty mixed bag
Mavericks - Urban middle class, living in Dallas.

That's what I remember of it... could be wrong. ;-)

Prob why mavs hate Spurs. More than just a few lopsided playoff series wins/titles. It's like the Napoli beer gut guy hanging with blue collar Mexican/white redneck. So much more to it.

US soccer attendance more than doubled since '94. In the same era, baseball attendance plateaued.

So not having to put up with the "urban experience" and actually enjoy a sporting event is a bad thing?

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Maybe I heard him wrong. I heard him imply white people focused on the nostalgia because it pushed blacks away from baseball. He stopped just short of accusing baseball fans of being racist and intentionally pushing them away.

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Maybe you did. I did not hear him say baseball (whites) was acting with any intention of pushing blacks away. I heard him say baseball (whites) was acting in a way that did push blacks away.

There is a big difference.

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Baseball should move away from the historical reference and nostalgia of the game in order to attract more black people? IMO, everything baseball is about, is the history. and today's reference to it.

His whole spiel is offensive to me. He seems to imply baseball is missing something because one demographic is losing interest.

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Maybe he put too much emphasis on the "need" for black fans, in and of themselves, but I think Chris Rock was taking it a step further by saying black culture has a significant relation to culture as a whole...and thus, if you lose black culture, you're in danger of losing culture as a whole.

He wasn't necessarily saying baseball needed black fans, but rather, if baseball doesn't appeal to black fans, it won't appeal to the country as a whole.

He is being dramatic, provocative, baseball will be OK, I think, whether it appeals to black fans or not, but I do think baseball will be far from maximizing its value if it doesn't appeal to black fans.

If you want to debate just how representative black culture is of culture as a whole, go ahead, but that's a different point.

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The NBA and the NFL isn't less of a sport because there is a lack of white people playing in their leagues.

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The NBA has actually struggled in many ways for a long time, at times worse than others, for its failure to have widespread appeal. It is a decent rejoinder to Rock's argument- the NBA might show too much hip-hop causes you to lose widespread appeal.

But the NBA is getting healthier. And I do think part of that is people who grew up in the 1990s/early 2000s when hip hop culture really started to become a multi-cultural phenomenon are now getting jobs, having kids..and choosing to spend some of that on basketball, while their parents may have chosen to spend less on basketball and more on baseball.

As far as the NFL, there are 3.5 to 4 times as many white players in the league as there are blacks in MLB, and many of the biggest stars (read: Quarterbacks) are white.

The NFL strikes a good balance- whatever that means- and is the gold standard for American sports.


The whole baseball cards thing is about comparing stats and the history. The whole autograph phenom centers around the increased value over time.

Hardly anyone cares about baseball cards.

Autographs- maybe- but that's a niche part of the sport. The value of baseball is derived from eyeballs watching games in the now.

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As far as the NFL, there are 3.5 to 4 times as many white players in the league as there are blacks in MLB, and many of the biggest stars (read: Quarterbacks) are white.

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Considering an active NFL roster has 53 players to the active MLB roster's 25, I would sure hope there are more white guys in the NFL than black guys in the MLB.

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As far as the NFL, there are 3.5 to 4 times as many white players in the league as there are blacks in MLB, and many of the biggest stars (read: Quarterbacks) are white.

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Considering an active NFL roster has 53 players to the active MLB roster's 25, I would sure hope there are more white guys in the NFL than black guys in the MLB.

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Proportionately. Almost 30% of NFL players are white.