The NFL got rid of the force-out rule because replay got a call wrong. TO caught a ball for Dallas, and was clearly forced out of bounds before he came down. The ref, however, ruled that he got both feet in bounds, therefore no force out call was made. The defense challenged, and there was clear evidence that he landed out of bounds. The pass was ruled incomplete, because the ref couldn't go back and change his ruling from "2 feet in" to "force out." The result was that replay got the call wrong.

The baseball analogy is that the momentum of the tag can knock the foot off the bag, and the umpire calls the guy safe because he doesn't see the foot leave contact. Under review, the out call is made, and the ump can't change his call to say that the fielder forced him off the bag. Result - replay gets call wrong.

I'm on the side of blown calls being part of the game. It sucks, but umps are people too. They can't bat 1.000.

It just cracks me up because people are so intent on the bang-bang play at first or the trapped ball. While it's sometimes a big deal, an inconsistent strike zone is a much bigger deal. An ump that isn't giving a pitcher the edges has just created batting practice for the opposing teams. That's such a bigger issue than the trapped ball or fair/foul ball.

It's just a way to harbor the excitement or disappointment. Same as the NFL. Just a pathetic attempt to attention ***** for the umps and MLB.

Anybody that wants to limit replay to fair/foul and home runs did not watch baseball this year (or ever). An astonishing number of overturns are not even tag plays but simple blown force calls at 1b.

Not true at all. I've been watching baseball all my life, and probably watched about 90% of the Astros games. Still don't think replay is necessary or good. I don't think it enhances the game or makes it more fair.

I don't like these particular type calls (of which I saw 3 or 4) but it would be ridiculous to argue that the 50 or more of others I saw that were corrected and also the looks at ones that were confirmed did not make the game better and more fair. It did. The game is better now that more calls are right. It was ****ty to spend time *****ing about a blown play at the plate.

I will also say that I don't like the review from the minuscule off the bag analysis. Not from the pov that he was safe. He was out. Any part of the hand or glove touches him and its a tag as long as he securely has the ball. Some leather and the back part of his hand is touching him. It is irrelevant whether a part of the glove immediately adjacent to ball touches him or not. Even if it wasn't touching leather, contact with the back of valbuena's hand also counts.

quote:

---

In the '87 world series, Kent Hrbeck lifted Lonnie Smith (I think) off the first base bag and tagged him out. That was a huge blown call, but would not be subject to replay.

For 100+ years, every baseball fan has known that if the throw beats the runner, the runner is out. If the runner momentarily loses contact with the bag while sliding across it, he is safe (not oversliding - that's different). We didn't need any of that to change. Replay in those cases is changing the game of baseball, and it didn't need changing. Everybody was fine with it.

We're not fine with catch/trap, fair/foul, and bang-bang plays at first base being missed. Why didn't MLB fix the actual problems, instead of trying to alter the game itself?

---

quote:

---

I'm on the side of blown calls being part of the game. It sucks, but umps are people too. They can't bat 1.000.

---

That's the point. They're at about .500. And that's one part of baseball where having a .500 average is not good, at all. They're basically guessing. And most times, it takes all of 1-2 minutes to check (you have those to spare if you're watching a baseball game) and there are limits on how often they can be used.

Like I said earlier, the Astros would have been shorter on calls 2/3 of the time on those calls in 2014. And MLB games still got shorter. There's a difference between "altering the game" (adding a 3 point shot) and making an improvement (checking to see if something actually happened or didn't).

2/3? Is that a fact? If it's about .500, then it works out for each team the same.

We're arguing over a difference in opinion. You think the replay makes the game better; I think it's an attention grab. How many times have you watched a game where you think they got the call wrong even with the replay? It's just a way to grab the energy of the crowd and force it on the umps/MLB. You're not going to change my mind on this.

Yes, according to a stat site, the Astros won 2/3 of their challenges last year (2014). Having it "work out for each team" is nice until it doesn't work out for your team, and that's what sends someone else to to the postseason or World Series.

I haven't seen this as an attention grab for umps, because everyone is watching a slow motion replay (often of an umpire messing up), not staring at the umpires while they pose for the audience. I don't understand how you think this benefits umpires when it puts their performance on display on a nightly basis and it shows how often they get it wrong at the moment of the play. The fact that they can STILL get it wrong isn't more evidence to me that they need to be off the hook of having it reviewed in the first place.

No, I've very rarely seen a game (I watch many) where I thought replay got it wrong. Like in football, the overturning of a call has to be overly apparent to make the change. I think that rule has eliminated a lot of error. I know this play in particular has people upset, but I honestly can't think of a single time this season in a Cubs game where I thought they got it wrong after watching the replay. It's usually pretty obvious once you have the cameras slowing it down frame by frame.

quote:

---

I'm on the side of blown calls being part of the game. It sucks, but umps are people too. They can't bat 1.000.

It just cracks me up because people are so intent on the bang-bang play at first or the trapped ball. While it's sometimes a big deal, an inconsistent strike zone is a much bigger deal. An ump that isn't giving a pitcher the edges has just created batting practice for the opposing teams. That's such a bigger issue than the trapped ball or fair/foul ball.

It's just a way to harbor the excitement or disappointment. Same as the NFL. Just a pathetic attempt to attention ***** for the umps and MLB.

---

When an umpire gets a call right we, at most, say "good call" and move on. When an umpire gets a call wrong, we potentially vilify them. You think umpires want their calls questioned? You think they celebrate the development of TV? Of instant replays? Of the review process?

Really? That's you're opinion and you're going to draw a line in the sand and not even consider any other possibilities? Really?

Nearly every sport in the world---NFL football, tennis, soccer, basketball, hockey, and others---have added instant replay in some form or fashion. It turns out that if you already have the technology to see if a call was right, and you already are going to show a close call using 5 different camera angles on TV...that just about everyone around the world figures you might as well allow for the call to be corrected.

This isn't about attention, its a why the hell not get more calls correct because we have the technology and already use a lot of it on television broadcasts anyways.


The problem with balls and strikes has absolutely nothing to do whether they should or should not use replay on bang-bang plays at first base. Maybe people should be more up in arms about balls and strikes, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't work to correct missed calls at first base. Just because you see a bigger problem doesn't mean we shouldn't correct a lesser problem.

quote:

---

2/3? Is that a fact? If it's about .500, then it works out for each team the same.

We're arguing over a difference in opinion. You think the replay makes the game better; I think it's an attention grab. How many times have you watched a game where you think they got the call wrong even with the replay? It's just a way to grab the energy of the crowd and force it on the umps/MLB. You're not going to change my mind on this.

---

I think replay overturns wrong calls many more times than it overturns the right call.

.500 means they are guessing on close plays. We have the technology to lessen the number of times a call is a guess. Even if it is an attention grab, if we can get more calls right without doing anything but taking a minute or two to watch the same replays we were already going to spend a little bit of time watching...then I'm all for it.

.500 does not mean it necessarily works out the same for each team. It certainly does not mean it works the same for each team in a singular game nor does it mean the impact on each team is the same. We shouldn't need to depend on odds and chance in the first place. We already have and use the technology!

So was that the baseball gods in Toronto? Because it was pretty clearly the right call.