Katy in trouble with the UIL again

I know one of the kids involved and this is a great example why the UIL is garbage.

If they truly did "grunt work", that is ridiculous to get ousted from the playoffs. The kids were being productive and working.

Apparently high school swimmers can get paid for lessons.

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Apparently high school swimmers can get paid for lessons.

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Well, that's misleading.

Swimmers can get paid for teaching beginning swimming and lifesaving.

I understand that.

$1500 each or total?

The following was shared on Facebook by one of the boy's parents:

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Here is our family's story on the Katy Baseball Ruling: The KatyISD UIL district committee (6 district principals plus Strake Jesuit's principal) voted that Grant Jackman and Hayden Baker had violated the amateur rule of UIL section 441. Our baseball team will now have to forfeit 20 wins as punishment for when the time they first accepted payment for a job. And this ruling will keep the team out of the playoffs because our district wins are now losses and not enough to be in the top 4. Our families are devastated at this outcome because in no way we believe the boys broke the rule. We have appealed to the UIL state executive committee.


We love our Katy Baseball team like our family and Grant and Hayden love their teammates like brothers. And never would we have done anything to jeopardize our own son's senior season as well as hurting the whole team's seasons.


I would like to get our side of the story out because the news reports are not doing that. Grant and Hayden were "helping" a church friend's 7-8 year old little league team and our friend (his kids zoned to Seven Lakes) wanted to bless two college bound boys (knowing it's too hard to have regular jobs playing school sports and knowing the boys are dual sport athletes) and pay them for their time with his team as a part time job doing the "grunt work" at practices for the 3 (dad) coaches, keeping the scorebook at the games, being the bat boys, helping the catcher get his gear on and off, patting kids on the head when they came back crying because they struck out and telling them "you'll get it next time", giving high fives when they scored a run, keeping the dugout in order so kids wouldn't get hurt. Grant would also help warm up the pitcher who was the coach and then mostly sit on a bucket. They were HELPERS... Extra hands and feet! Glorified babysitters if you want to call it that. Grant and Hayden spent their younger years at Katy American as little leaguers and were enjoying spending their time out there mentoring those little guys. They were not paid to teach the players. The coach has played 4 years of college baseball and doesn't need Grant's and Hayden's knowledge to instruct his team. It's mind boggling how this committee viewed that as "teaching" which is what the rule says they can't do. They knew they couldn't get paid for lessons but that's not what they were doing. They were getting paid to help with other things with the team... NOT teach the players.


Besides that, the rule itself isn't clear. It says you can't get valuable considerations for participating or teaching in a League sponsored school sport. League is defined in their constitution as Universal Interscholastic League. Both Robert and I believe that was for sports for grades 7th-12th in school and out of school. But the UIL interprets this rule as the whole sport of Baseball. Never would we allow Grant to take money for a job if we thought it jeopardizes his eligibility at school. If the team had been a 7th grade team we would have said absolutely NO to getting paid because they are governed by UIL and that would be a UIL sport. We wouldn't have chanced that even if they were not teaching/coaching. We've seen this rule for many years and always saw it this way... As it reads. In August 2016 this very rule that they say these boys violated is being edited to clarify that they CAN make money teaching their sport and officiating too. They are editing it because they see it as "not restricting things that don't really matter" (UIL's own words). Go figure!


Our hearts are broken for Katy Baseball, the Katy coaches and all the families that have been hurt by this because in no way should they be punished for our mistake. We are so sorry! Punish Grant and Hayden if they must but not our team. This punishment is extreme for this infraction. For everyone who thinks this is an NCAA rule, it's not. NCAA does allow athletes to make money teaching in their sport.
We stand by Grant and Hayden and we will fight this ruling as far as we can. THANK YOU to all of you that have supported us and have been tirelessly defending the boys and believe they did nothing wrong. Feel free to share our story and if you have any questions feel free to ask. - Robert & Cheryl Jackman

Jacksmans are some of the best people I know. Such a shame.

Most of that is blah blah emotional stuff and I don't really buy it.

I understand their confusion about what a "league sponsored school sport" means.

Tough situation. The rules seem to put the responsibility on the student to do what they need to do to make sure they're not breaking the intent of the rule.

I'm assuming it was $1500/ea.

While disappointing, IMO, it was the correct ruling.

And if the parents aren't careful... I'd recommend they find out if the kids were 1099ed, or they could find themselves in even more trouble.

http://blogs.hrblock.com/2013/02/26/5-essential-tax-tips-for-teenagers/

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First they returned the money. Second, they and the coaches could simply say it was a gift for helping out.

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What am I missing:

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pay them for their time with his team as a part time job doing the "grunt work"

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They may have returned it... and the IRS is unlikely to pursue the issue, but the social media post specifically says "pay them" "as a part time job" and to this non-IRS non-Accountant... sounds like a job.

But, you missed the point entirely.

The money would never qualify as a gift.

I've never worked for a birthday or Christmas gift.

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Besides that, the rule itself isn't clear. It says you can't get valuable considerations for participating or teaching in a League sponsored school sport. League is defined in their constitution as Universal Interscholastic League

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Uh, this isn't really confusing. It says you cant get consideration for teaching in a school sport, which is then qualified by League sponsored, meaning if you're off playing getting paid for recreation cricket or some other thing, sounds like that's fine.

You cant get consideration for participating or teaching "baseball" (at any level) because "baseball" is a "League (UIL) sponsored sport"

Why return the money?

I guess it was done before ruling?

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I would like to get our side of the story out because the news reports are not doing that. Grant and Hayden were "helping" a church friend's 7-8 year old little league team and our friend (his kids zoned to Seven Lakes) wanted to bless two college bound boys (knowing it's too hard to have regular jobs playing school sports and knowing the boys are dual sport athletes) and pay them for their time with his team as a part time job doing the "grunt work" at practices for the 3 (dad) coaches, keeping the scorebook at the games, being the bat boys, helping the catcher get his gear on and off, patting kids on the head when they came back crying because they struck out and telling them "you'll get it next time", giving high fives when they scored a run, keeping the dugout in order so kids wouldn't get hurt. Grant would also help warm up the pitcher who was the coach and then mostly sit on a bucket. They were HELPERS... Extra hands and feet! Glorified babysitters if you want to call it that. Grant and Hayden spent their younger years at Katy American as little leaguers and were enjoying spending their time out there mentoring those little guys. They were not paid to teach the players. The coach has played 4 years of college baseball and doesn't need Grant's and Hayden's knowledge to instruct his team. It's mind boggling how this committee viewed that as "teaching" which is what the rule says they can't do. They knew they couldn't get paid for lessons but that's not what they were doing. They were getting paid to help with other things with the team... NOT teach the players.

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This is such a bogus excuse: Little League dads "PAID" players to help coach their players? Little League takes great pride in being a volunteer organization and because of that they don't pay their umpires, much less coaches.

From the Katy LL website:

Rookie 7, Minor 8

There shall be ONLY 4 adults (17 years or older) for each team within the field of play (including the dugout) once the game is started. ONE coach shall be assigned the dugout responsibilities and shall remain within the dugout at all times during the game except to retrieve the batter's bat once a DEAD ball has been called. ONE coach shall be assigned responsibilities for pitching during the team's at bat. There is NO coaching from the adult coach pitching. NO bat boys/girls allowed.

Rule 4.05 (1) First and third base coaches may both be adult coaches

A manager or coach from the offensive team shall serve as the pitcher for their team. They must pitch overhanded and begin their pitching motion with both feet within the pitching circle or dirt area.

The coach pitcher cannot point to position hitters, talk to hitters, talk to base runners, or talk to the base coaches. For the first occurrence, the coach pitcher and manager will be warned.

http://www.katyamerican.org/LinkClick.aspx?link=Documents%2fGround+Rules%2fSpring+2013%2fKALL+2015+Fall+Ground+Rules.pdf&tabid=226&mid=636

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The money would never qualify as a gift.

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And that of course raises other questions. If the the coach who paid the boys really played college ball (and thus went to college), it might be considered an inappropriate gift as it pertains to the NCAA clearinghouse.

And the social media post even describes how menial the work was, for the amount of pay... errr... amount they were gifted.

The coach should have been smarter than that.

The parents have to be smarter than that.

The boys themselves have to be smarter than that.

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I tend to agree with this. I think the ruling was correct.

Why can't free citizens spend their money as they please? Why should Johnny Mathclass be able to get paid for tutoring and these kids can't accept money someone is willing to pay them?

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Why can't free citizens spend their money as they please? Why should Johnny Mathclass be able to get paid for tutoring and these kids can't accept money someone is willing to pay them?

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Because the UIL required athletes that play in its competitions to be amateurs in the sports they compete in.

They could do literally any other job---they could even take a similar job in another UIL sport---and be eligible for the baseball team. (The rule is sports specific).

Or they still have the free choice to work for the little league team. They just wouldn't be eligible to play baseball in the UIL.

It's a pretty narrow rule, and hardly a novel or unique rule.

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Why can't free citizens spend their money as they please?

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You realize there was no claim against the employer, right. He freely spent his money as he saw fit and AFAIK, there hasn't been any complaint, other than of ALL the other Assistant LL Coaches... these two may be the only ones being paid.

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Why should Johnny Mathclass be able to get paid for tutoring and these kids can't accept money someone is willing to pay them?

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I guess the word "voluntary" doesn't mean what it used to mean. Voluntarily participating in a voluntary organization with rules... some people think rules don't apply to them, or that their little snowflake should have an exception to the rules, but nobody else.

There was nothing required in the circumstance.

You clearly don't see someone who gets paid for coaching baseball to be a baseball professional?! You don't see the inherent conflict? If only coaches and players are allowed in the dugout and you are getting paid to be in the dugout of a baseball game, then you are employed as a baseball professional. What if you had the HS football players getting paid to shag balls for HS baseball team? You could pay them like $100 per practice. Seems cool, I suppose...

Now... I don't know the rules of UIL as it pertains to things like Calculator or Science. But, AFAIK, Johnny Mathclass can get paid to tutor kids in math just as Johnny Baseball can get paid to coach kids. The rub was that they wanted to participate in a voluntary organization that prohibits getting paid for coaching that event because it presents the student as a professional.

Now, Johnny "UIL Calculator Competitor" getting paid to help coach a "non-UIL Calculator Competitor" would be similar, or if you had these baseball players coaching Johnny "UIL Calculator Competitor"... that might not be allowed.

Maybe we should just pay HS and Jr High athletes?! I don't know what the right answer is here, but clearly I'm missing something #Sarcasm.

Never seen such a group of holier than thous (yes I am referring to several on this board).

The letter of the law is obviously not clear, hence the need to amend the rule. These kids did not clearly break the rule. Given the lack of clarity and the fact they returned the money which was immaterial to begin withi certainly am sympathetic to those saying the UIL overstepped their bounds here. And did I read it right that the decision was made by the district principals? How many teams are competing for the last playoff spot? The decision was possibly self serving...

When I participated in varsity UIL sports I certainly knew I couldn't get paid by my school to go help out at the junior high. It would have never concerned me to get paid for helping out a little league team. I was paid for umpiring and through doing that I gave tips to catchers, should I have been deemed ineligible?

Thats a shame. The story above seems to be pretty innocent, and I agree the punishment seems a little harsh for the crime.

On another UIL infraction note, it was found out a few weeks that Lufkin should have been 6a with the alignment two years, but they shorted their enrollment 133 kids I believe, and stayed in 5a. They would be making the jump to 6a next year. My question to that is what punishment would or should be given? They won a state soccer championship and had quite a few playoff victories, as well as making it to the fourth round in playoffs in baseball I believe last year. I would hate to see an administration mistake hurt the kids, but what else is there to do with something like that? 130 something students is a large margin.

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Grant and Hayden were "helping" a church friend's 7-8 year old little league team and our friend (his kids zoned to Seven Lakes) wanted to bless two college bound boys (knowing it's too hard to have regular jobs playing school sports and knowing the boys are dual sport athletes) and pay them for their time with his team

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I don't really blame the boys and I'm sure they and their families are good people, but even the way the mother wrote up the situation sounds just like boosters paying college athletes which we all know isn't kosher. She basically admits the kids were paid (quite a bit relative to what they were doing as DallasAg points out) BECAUSE they were athletes.

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Never seen such a group of holier than thous (yes I am referring to several on this board).

The letter of the law is obviously not clear, hence the need to amend the rule. These kids did not clearly break the rule. Given the lack of clarity and the fact they returned the money which was immaterial to begin withi certainly am sympathetic to those saying the UIL overstepped their bounds here. And did I read it right that the decision was made by the district principals? How many teams are competing for the last playoff spot? The decision was possibly self serving...

When I participated in varsity UIL sports I certainly knew I couldn't get paid by my school to go help out at the junior high. It would have never concerned me to get paid for helping out a little league team. I was paid for umpiring and through doing that I gave tips to catchers, should I have been deemed ineligible?

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The wording of rules are often changed, in order to tighten things up for people trying to exploit the rules.

I find it disingenuous that you accuse district principals of doing this in order to get their team in the playoffs and then accuse people on here about being holier than thou. There is only ONE school that would benefit, so the other schools wouldn't have an interest. The school to benefit would be known based on the ruling (forfeits) and I'm not sure if you even know if that principal excuse themself in the decision. Shame on you. Now tell me how these principals found out that these kids got paid.

Next, you got paid to help a little league team? Until recently, LL umpires and coaches were volunteers, and now only in a few places are umpires paid. I am unaware of Coaches... and Asst Coaches getting paid.

Katy LL registration is $165. For 12 players, that is $1980 for a team. And you are telling me it is legit that two HS kids each getting $1500 for a total of $3000 is legit?

Missy Franklin was an Olympic Gold Medalist, and in order for her to continue to swim as an Amatuer (ie swim for Cal), she could not get endorsements, among other things. She gave up her amateur status and was no longer eligible to swim for Cal.

It may have been innocent, but it doesn't pass the smell test. I expect there is much more to the story. If the parent presents their position, you are almost assured it is biased and in their favor, and quite frankly the story presented is pretty damning. So, what ever she was unwilling to disclose, I'm sure even worse than in her story. I'm curious who the coach was, what school he played baseball, what his relationship was with these kids, etc.

I have gifted coaches for my kids and I make quite a bit of money. But, I could never imagine giving one of them $1500 to head coach the team, let alone to shag balls, do grunt work and give "atta boys." In fact, I'm in the process of giving one a $100 gift card. Which is about what I normally give for the season. And that's because the coach has bought equipment out of their own pocket.

One last point... The comment about it also being a college gift... I am quite generous about HS graduation gifts, but I could never imagine giving a $1500 graduation gift to a nephew\niece, let alone the neighbor's kid.

The amount of money seems out of line with the job she describes. My guess is that was a very large (if not the biggest) driver for the unfavorable, strict interpretation. I've coached for 7 years - albeit softball vs. baseball (although I do have several friends that coach baseball), and this just doesn't pass the smell test at all.

Quite the lengthy response, did I hit a nerve? And are you saying high school administrators are above "taking it to" a rival? Please...

As for receiving money for umpiring, notice I didn't use capital letters in front of "little league" as my town didn't have "Little League". I am not sure what affiliation in terms of any national "league". I got something like $20-25/game if I remember right.

Oh, and I also worked for a Dr. Pepper distributor in the summers and the owner of that place was a huge high school sports booster. Did he really need to hire 4 or 5 high school kids every summer? I mean, does more Dr. Pepper get consumed in the summer to where more help is needed cleaning the warehouse? Do the truck drivers need someone to ride with them in the summer that they were able to do without the other 9 months out of the year? It seems like at least most the summer help this guy hired were athletes, sounds like we all should have been ineligible! And I made way more than $1,500. I made around $7.50/hr plus overtime and I worked probably 50 hours a week so I probably made $5k for a summer. I am sure I spent the bulk of my 50 hours a week doing tasks that were not really necessary...Are we sure he wasn't really gifting me the money as that was clearly more than he needed to pay me. Oh and I should point out at least 3 of the ones of us working there actually were transfers into a larger school district from 3 smaller school districts as we had all moved from in town to in the country and were no longer living in the school district of the larger school we grew up going to as kids. Even more shady I tell you!