Does the 3 batter rule go into effect next year in regards to relief pitching?

If we could be guaranteed a healthy Correa for the next 5-7 seasons, I'd say lock him up. But there isn't much proof of him co tribute from more than half of a season, and even though he had some big moments, he was overall very underwhelming in the playoffs.

If we were to trade him for a major haul, I don't think I would be upset. If we were to keep him and sign him long term, I don't think I'd be upset. I'm just overall very lukewarm there.

It would be great if Toro could play over a long stretch and show that he can be an everyday productive 3B.. but for that to happen we will likely need significant injuries to either Bregman or Correa.

Can Toro play LF?

Really would've loved Realmuto as well, but wondering if that may have kept us from getting a Greinke because of having to pick up some of his salary. A big time SP ended up being a bigger need than C.

Harry Dunne said:

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I trust in the organization to make the right moves at SP and RP. Seems like they always do.

I'd be OK running it back with Chirinos & Maldonado - at the C position you can't do much better than those guys did, but I don't think Chirinos will be cheap after a career year. Stubbs doesn't hit well enough to even be a 50/50 platoon guy with a RH hitting C.

Passing on Realmuto (along with no CFM QO) for me will go down as the non-moves that cost us a ring.

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There is literally no way to know. He might have hit .500 and won the WS MVP or gone 0fer.

But I think it's a little much to just assume he's the difference between a ring and not.

Realmuto
2019 Avg
.275
.328
.493
.820

High Leverage
.276
.315
.474
.790

Chirinos
2019 Avg
.238
.347
.443
.790

World Series
.211
.211
.579
.789

Was he better? In the regular season, but I'm not sure you can project he'd have a better WS than Chirinos.

bearkatag15 said:

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Lunhow states every team has spending limits to payroll and that there are unlimited spending potential for most teams and we are one that has limits to spending.

So no going over luxury tax confirmed.

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"committing resources for 2025 right now comes with a lot of risk"

We have Altuve and Bregman through 2024 and I obviously that is what the team will be built around. Will we lock down Springer? I hope so, but that is the risk factor. Having $70MM committed to Altuve, Bregman, and Springer out of an optimal $100 - $110M total position player salary pool is a big commitment. You need $5MM for your subs and that leaves $25MM - $35MM to fill out the other 6 members of your starting lineup. I never want to see Springer in any other uniform, but it may come down to 2 Brantley's or 1 Springer because we have made our Altuve/Bregman bed (which was a little lumpy in the playoffs but it normally gives us a pretty good night sleep).

Hopefully, we can avoid committing $13MM a year to a bottom of the order guy but every deal is a roll of the dice.

Another piece to throw in, what if Realmuto cost you Alvarez? We don't know what pieces would have ultimately landed him.

ccaggie05 said:

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I don't care that he didn't want to talk to the media, and I can understand an emotional response to a bunch of media folks coming up to you in the locker room just after a devastating loss like this. Sure, he probably should have handled that bit better, but that's not a big deal.

What is a big deal and slap in the face in my opinion is the Boras hat. That hat didn't just appear out of thin air. He made a conscious, and likely pre-planned, decision to put that on minutes after the season was over. It's hard not to take that as a slight to the organization and team mates that not only got him to a World Series, but also turned him from a good pitcher with lots of potential into an elite pitcher who is about to break records with his FA contract.

At the end of the day it just sucks that is how many of us will remember him going out. Makes it hard to root for him in the future.

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My thing is none of them wear Astros stuff out of the clubhouse...especially after losing the World Series. Its a hat, I dont care...

BUT

I do hope that he flops, I hope that he gets a huge contract from a crappy team and falls on his face without the support he had on this team, regresses to the pitcher he was before he wore the Orange and Blue. I will not cheer for him going forth but that is nothing against him, I dont cheer on anyone that goes to another team. If he happens to be in a game I am watching not playing against us sure I might have some interest but it wont go further than that.

My prediction is he goes to the Padres and wastes away in obscurity with Manny Mochado

Wabs said:

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Here's a good idea. Let's trade a boat load of prospects for a top line pitcher. Let's pay him something like $35M/year. But when we get to game 7 of the WS next year, let's start him and pull him after he gives up 2 hits and 1 run (and we have a lead).

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Beat that horse

Farmer1906 said:

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My quick thoughts on what happens this offseason for us....

Not much.

We'll sign a few arms for the pen and, of course, a catcher or two. Maybe trade for a catcher if we're not satisfied with the FA market.

We return 9/10 starters and our entire bench (TED, Diaz, Jake, Straw, Toro, etc)

Our rotation will be made up of Verlander, Greinke, McCullers, Sanchez, Urquidy, and still have guys trying to break in like Whitley, Armenteros, Framer, Ivery, Abreau, James trying to break into it or become mainstays in the bullpen.

---

Aaron Sanchez won't be back to pitching in the majors until at least after the All-Star break at a minimum. Hell he could miss next season entirely

wangus12 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

---

My quick thoughts on what happens this offseason for us....

Not much.

We'll sign a few arms for the pen and, of course, a catcher or two. Maybe trade for a catcher if we're not satisfied with the FA market.

We return 9/10 starters and our entire bench (TED, Diaz, Jake, Straw, Toro, etc)

Our rotation will be made up of Verlander, Greinke, McCullers, Sanchez, Urquidy, and still have guys trying to break in like Whitley, Armenteros, Framer, Ivery, Abreau, James trying to break into it or become mainstays in the bullpen.

---

Aaron Sanchez won't be back to pitching in the majors until at least after the All-Star break at a minimum. Hell he could miss next season entirely

---

The odds Sanchez ever throws another pitch in an Astros jersey are pretty long. That is why I think you will see Lunhow sign a pretty decent starting pitcher in the off season - at least an established #3 guy not named Wade Miley.

https://www.instagram.com/stories/lancemccullers43/

LMJ looks good throwing.

I wonder what MadBum will command?

I still think our rotation next year is:

1. Justin Verlander
2. Zack Greinke
3. Lance McCullers
4. Jose Urquidy
5. Forest Whitley


after the ASB we come out with:

JV
ZG
FW
LM
JU

I think we will sign a good SP to slot in after Greinke. We will need 3 solid pieces before you get to LMJ, Urquidy and Whitley. You don't want those 3 as your only options for the last 3 spots in the rotation. You hope that 2 of the 3 work out and solidify the rotation and the 3rd arm goes to the pen.

Nuke LaLoosh said:

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I wonder what MadBum will command?

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5 years $125?

bearkatag15 said:

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Nuke LaLoosh said:

---

I wonder what MadBum will command?

---

5 years $125?

---

Spotrac's "Market Value" lists 5 yrs, $105,672,038.

I think somewhere between that and your prediction. Maybe a slightly high evaluation for 4 years.

Farmer1906 said:

---

bearkatag15 said:

---

Nuke LaLoosh said:

---

I wonder what MadBum will command?

---

5 years $125?

---

Spotrac's "Market Value" lists 5 yrs, $105,672,038.

I think somewhere between that and your prediction. Maybe a slightly high evaluation for 4 years.

---

I'd do that all day long. Just turned 30 so he probably has 4-5 solid years left in him.

JV
MadBum
Greinke
LMJ
Urquidy/Whitley/who the hell cares cause the top 4 are sick

Put me on team MadBum.

https://www.mlb.com/news/every-major-league-team-biggest-2020-offseason-need

Quote:

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AMERICAN LEAGUE EAST


Baltimore Orioles: Starting pitching
The Orioles are entering year two of their rebuild, so it's unlikely that they'll be very aggressive on the free-agent market. But somebody will have to start games for Baltimore, so expect general manager Mike Elias to target some low-cost veterans to fill those spots.
Potential FA targets: Wade LeBlanc, Jhoulys Chacn

Boston Red Sox: Closer
The rotation needs to be addressed as well, but after letting Craig Kimbrel walk last year and struggling to find an answer in the ninth inning, Boston could try to address that spot this offseason unless newly-appointed chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom truly believes in Brandon Workman.
Potential FA targets: Will Smith, Aroldis Chapman (if he opts out)

New York Yankees: Starting pitching
The Yankees were unable to add an arm at the Trade Deadline, and while they'll expect a full season of Luis Severino, the rotation could use another big starting pitcher. Let the Gerrit Cole talk begin. The Yankees' decision to decline their option on Edwin Encarnaction saves roughly $15 million and will only lead to more Cole speculation.
Potential FA targets: Cole, Madison Bumgarner

Tampa Bay Rays: Catcher
Mike Zunino was a disappointment and could be non-tendered, while midseason addition Travis d'Arnaud is a free agent. The Rays could bring back d'Arnaud, or they could look elsewhere to fill the spot.
Potential FA targets: d'Arnaud, Martin Maldonado

Toronto Blue Jays: Starting pitching
Toronto will likely tinker with the bullpen and look to bolster its young, talented lineup, but starting pitching will be the focus. The Blue Jays used 21 different pitchers to start games in 2019 (including openers) and only one pitcher (Trent Thornton) topped the 150-inning mark.
Potential FA targets: Rick Porcello, Wade Miley

AMERICAN LEAGUE CENTRAL
Chicago White Sox: Left-handed bat
This would likely come in right field, where Chicago's collective .545 OPS was the worst in Major League Baseball by a wide margin (the next-lowest was the Marlins at .683.)
Potential FA targets: Corey Dickerson, Kole Calhoun

Cleveland Indians: Outfielder
Yasiel Puig was a good fit in Cleveland after he was acquired in late July, but he's a free agent and seems unlikely to return. The Indians will need to replace his power (although he hit only two home runs for them) to fortify the lineup.
Potential FA targets: Nicholas Castellanos, Kole Calhoun

Detroit Tigers: Infielders
Like the Orioles, the Tigers' list of needs is lengthy. Detroit scored fewer runs than any team in the Majors, which is not surprising given that its home run leader was Brandon Dixon with 15, and not one of the team's returning players who had at least 300 plate appearances in 2019 posted an OPS of at least .750. Gordon Beckham, Josh Harrison and Jordy Mercer are all free agents. But this team is still a few years away, so don't expect a big free-agent splash this year.
Potential FA targets: Adeiny Hechavarra, Logan Forsythe

Kansas City Royals: Starting pitching
With some solid pieces in place (Adalberto Mondesi, Hunter Dozier, Whit Merrifield), the Royals' need is on the mound, where the staff posted a 5.20 ERA (27th in the Majors). Don't expect any big signings, however, as Kansas City is in rebuild mode.
Potential FA targets: Derek Holland, Michael Pineda

Minnesota Twins: Starting pitching
Jake Odorizzi, Kyle Gibson and Michael Pineda are headed for free agency, while the Twins hold a $7 million option on Martn Prez, making Jos Berros the only member of the rotation guaranteed to return. The Twins' lineup is loaded, so the rotation will be the focus this offseason.
Potential FA targets: Madison Bumgarner, Dallas Keuchel

AMERICAN LEAGUE WEST

Houston Astros: Starting pitching
With Gerrit Cole headed for free agency and unlikely to return, the World Series runners-up will look to add a starter to fill that slot. Lance McCullers Jr. will be back from elbow surgery, though Wade Miley is also a free agent. Prospect Forrest Whitley could fill one of the two openings. It's easy to envision the Astros signing Zack Wheeler for a fraction of what Cole will get, and trying to make him the next Cole given their similarities.
Potential FA targets: Zack Wheeler, Jake Odorizzi

Los Angeles Angels: Starting pitching
The Angels already have the best player in the game (Mike Trout) as well as the most interesting player (Shohei Ohtani), but GM Billy Eppler must address a rotation whose 5.64 ERA ranked 29th in the Majors. There will be plenty of speculation about Gerrit Cole and a celebrated homecoming, though the Angels will face stiff competition for his services.
Potential FA targets: Cole, Stephen Strasburg

Oakland Athletics: Relief pitching
Oakland's bullpen actually ranked seventh in the Majors with a 3.89 ERA, but its 31 blown saves tied the Red Sox for the most in the game. Liam Hendriks was a revelation in 2019, but the Athletics -- who could non-tender '18 All-Star Blake Treinen -- need more late-inning help.
Potential FA targets: Daniel Hudson, Will Harris

Seattle Mariners: Starting pitching
Flix Hernndez, Wade LeBlanc and Tommy Milone are all free agents, leaving some holes in Seattle's rotation behind Marco Gonzales and Yusei Kikuchi. Up-and-comers Justus Sheffield and Justin Dunn could fill two of those spots, though it's no lock that both will be ready to do that out of Spring Training. It should be noted that GM Jerry Dipoto tends to prefer the trade market to free agency.
Potential FA targets: Michael Pineda, Jeremy Hellickson

Texas Rangers: Starting pitching
Lance Lynn and Mike Minor return to lead the rotation, but the Rangers would use another veteran starter as they prepare to move into their new ballpark. Speaking of that new park ... there will be a lot of buzz that the Rangers will want to make a splash before moving into their new digs, and they are among the teams that will be linked to third baseman Anthony Rendon, a Texas native. The Rangers don't currently have an obvious long-term solution at third, so Rendon makes sense in that regard.
Potential FA targets: Michael Wacha, Matt Harvey

NATIONAL LEAGUE EAST

Atlanta Braves: Catcher
Brian McCann has retired and both Francisco Cervelli and Tyler Flowers are headed for free agency, assuming the Braves don't pick up Flowers' $6 million option, leaving a vacancy behind the plate. Whether to bring back third baseman Josh Donaldson will be the biggest decision Atlanta has to make, though Austin Riley can step in and fill the position. But there's no such answer at catcher as Shea Langeliers and William Contreras, the Braves' Nos. 5 and 8 prospects, respectively, per MLB Pipeline, aren't expected to be ready for at least another year.
Potential FA targets: Yasmani Grandal, Martn Maldonado

Miami Marlins: Power bat
The Marlins ranked 29th in the Majors in runs scored, while their .673 OPS was dead last. Miami has $26 million coming off the books as Martn Prado and Starlin Castro are free agents, so there will be some payroll flexibility. The feeling is that the club will spend on lower-cost veterans and some stopgaps as the Marlins continue their rebuild.
Potential FA targets: Justin Smoak, Todd Frazier

New York Mets: Relief pitching
The Mets' 4.95 bullpen ERA ranked 25th in the Majors, thanks largely to the struggles of Edwin Daz and Jeurys Familia. Those two will return in 2020, but GM Brodie Van Wagenen needs to add an arm or two in order to lengthen the relief corps and give his new manager more late-inning options.
Potential FA targets: Steve Cishek, Brandon Kintzler

Philadelphia Phillies: Starting pitching
The Phillies' rotation posted a 4.64 ERA last season, ranking fifth in the difficult National League East. Philadelphia has shown a willingness to spend money, so while the club might not find itself in the Gerrit Cole sweepstakes, GM Matt Klentak to pursue a high-profile starter.
Potential FA targets: Madison Bumgarner, Cole Hamels

Washington Nationals: Relief pitching
This, of course, assumes that the club is able to re-sign free-agent third baseman Anthony Rendon and that World Series MVP Stephen Strasburg doesn't opt out and sign elsewhere. Because if Rendon and Strasburg both leave, the club has bigger issues than relief pitching. That said, it is unlikely Strasburg is playing anywhere else next year, and the Nats are as likely as anyone to sign Rendon.
As for the bullpen Sean Doolittle will return at the back of it, but Daniel Hudson is a free agent. Though Washington won the World Series, the rest of the relief corps under-performed throughout the regular season, as its 5.68 ERA ranked 29th among big league bullpens, ahead of only Baltimore.
Potential FA targets: Will Smith, Will Harris

NATIONAL LEAGUE CENTRAL
Chicago Cubs: Impact outfield bat
Nicholas Castellanos proved to be a superb addition for the Cubs this summer, but he's headed to the free-agent market and is no lock to return. The Cubs should be in position to spend, so bringing back Castellanos could be an option if they determine they like him more than some of the alternatives.
Potential FA targets: Castellanos, Marcell Ozuna

Cincinnati Reds: Relief pitching
It's become an annual tradition to wonder if the Reds will trade Raisel Iglesias in the offseason. But whether they hold on to their closer or not, adding bullpen help should be a priority for Cincinnati, which ranked 13th in MLB in bullpen ERA (4.28).
Potential FA targets: Brad Brach, Chris Martin

Milwaukee Brewers: Third base
Mike Moustakas is headed for free agency, while Travis Shaw is a non-tender candidate coming off a brutal season in which he hit just seven home runs with a .551 OPS in 86 games. The Brewers might decide to re-sign Moustakas to take over at the hot corner, because the free-agent crop is top heavy (Anthony Rendon, Josh Donaldson) but relatively shallow.
Potential FA targets: Moustakas, Donaldson

Pittsburgh Pirates: Starting pitching
Chris Archer, Joe Musgrove and Trevor Williams return next season, but Jamison Taillon is set to miss the season as he recovers from Tommy John surgery. Therefore, the Pirates must make upgrades to a rotation that had a 5.40 ERA in 2019, ranking 26th in the Majors. They won't be in the mix for the top starters, but there are some mid-level arms that could be in their sights as bounceback candidates.
Potential FA targets: Kyle Gibson, Michael Wacha

St. Louis Cardinals: Starting pitching
With both Adam Wainwright and Michael Wacha headed for free agency, the Cardinals will need to add to their rotation this winter. St. Louis was unsuccessful it its bid to add a frontline starter before the Trade Deadline, but there are myriad of arms in this free-agent market that could help.
Potential FA targets: Madison Bumgarner, Jake Odorizzi

NATIONAL LEAGUE WEST
Arizona D-backs: Relief pitching
Arizona could go into the season with Archie Bradley as the closer, but it seems likely that GM Mike Hazen will look to add a piece or two for the back end of the bullpen.
Potential FA targets: Cody Allen, Brandon Kintzler

Colorado Rockies: Starting pitching
The Rockies' 5.87 rotation ERA ranked 30th in the Majors, which is a problem even when you account for the Coors Field factor. They're not likely to be in the mix for the top free agents, but the next tier could be within their sights.
Potential FA targets: Jake Odorizzi, Tanner Roark

Los Angeles Dodgers: Relief pitching
The Dodgers boasted the lowest rotation ERA in the Majors (3.11), and while their 3.78 bullpen ERA ranked fourth in the league, it appears to be the area most in need of a boost this offseason. Kenley Jansen should return as the closer, but adding an arm or two to help get him the ball would improve the 106-win team.
Potential FA targets: Will Smith, Dellin Betances

San Diego Padres: Starting pitching
Rookie Chris Paddack was a breakout star in 2019, but the rest of the Padres' rotation struggled to provide quality. There are several good, young arms in the group, but adding a veteran starter to guide the rotation makes sense. That could come from the trade market, but there are free-agent names that fit the bill.
Potential FA targets: Madison Bumgarner, Adam Wainwright

San Francisco Giants: Starting pitching
Only the Pirates and Rockies had a higher rotation ERA than the Giants' 4.77 in 2019, and with Madison Bumgarner headed for free agency, San Francisco will need to find a replacement for its long-time ace if he doesn't return. The Giants had the financial resources to take a run at Bryce Harper last year, so they're capable of being big players in free agency. One intriguing name is Zack Wheeler, whom the club drafted in 2009 and then sent to the Mets at the '11 Trade Deadline for Carlos Beltrn.
Potential FA targets: Hyun-Jin Ryu, Wheeler

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Wheeler is a guy I can get on board with. He's not going to demand as many years as MadBum yet he's got some talent we could mold.

Edit: here is my trade deadline post of Wheeler.

Quote:

---

A few thoughts on how to quickly improve Wheeler.

Throw the curve more. It's his best pitcher statically and he only throws it 10-11% of the time.

Throw the sinker less. He's thrown it more this year than ever before and it's not a great pitch based on how it's hit.

Locate the four seamer up in the zone. It seems like Storm immediately gets his guys to throw the high heater. Based on the map he leaves it over the heart of the plate too often.

Based on velocity & movement baseball savant compares him to 18 & 19 Gerrit Cole & 18 DeGrom. If that doesn't wow you then idk what will.

---

Edit2:

Spotrac's market value: 4 yrs, $93,778,568

No way we touch that.

Jake Odorizzi's Sportrac's market value is much more reasonable. 4 years $71.4M

Below avg velo, below avg fastball and curve spin, and overperformed slightly to expected metrics.

Another pass from me, dawg.

Just to remind everyone what we have in LMJ.

From 2015-2019; minimum 450 IP.

ERA: 3.69 (30th)
FIP: 3.26 (10th - ahead of JV & Greinke)
xFIP: 3.33 (11th)
K%: 26.5% (26th)

BB%: 9.4 % (14th worst)
IP: 451.1 (dead last for obvious reasons)

When LMJ is healthy he's good. He just hasn't ever been able to have a full year of health. I think if the team manages his innings, we'll have a legit #2/3 type for October.

Farmer1906 said:

---

Wheeler is a guy I can get on board with. He's not going to demand as many years as MadBum yet he's got some talent we could mold.

Edit: here is my trade deadline post of Wheeler.

Quote:

---

A few thoughts on how to quickly improve Wheeler.

Throw the curve more. It's his best pitcher statically and he only throws it 10-11% of the time.

Throw the sinker less. He's thrown it more this year than ever before and it's not a great pitch based on how it's hit.

Locate the four seamer up in the zone. It seems like Storm immediately gets his guys to throw the high heater. Based on the map he leaves it over the heart of the plate too often.

Based on velocity & movement baseball savant compares him to 18 & 19 Gerrit Cole & 18 DeGrom. If that doesn't wow you then idk what will.

---

Edit2:

Spotrac's market value: 4 yrs, $93,778,568

No way we touch that.

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Affordability aside, I'd be thrilled with Wheeler. If they go with JV/ZG/LMJ/JU and an inhouse #5 on the other hand, we better invest some dollars to upgrade the bullpen.

Funny observation- day two of the offseason and we've passed the Rangers offseason thread... which has been open for a month now.

Marvin said:

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Funny observation- day two of the offseason and we've passed the Rangers offseason thread... which has been open for a month now.

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How long before we pass their 2019 Season long thread?

Farmer1906 said:

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bearkatag15 said:

---

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but but but I was told they were taking Hinch from us.

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Should have traded Hinch for Stroman and signed Beltran

Mets probably passed on Hinch after his abysmal managing in G7

Farmer1906 said:

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bearkatag15 said:

---

---

but but but I was told they were taking Hinch from us.

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Guess I've severely underestimated Beltran's abilities. I thought he'd make a phenomenal hitting coach, but a big league manager? Shows what I know...

Nuke LaLoosh said:

---

Does the 3 batter rule go into effect next year in regards to relief pitching?

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Yes. It's 3 batters or end of half inning.

Marvin said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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bearkatag15 said:

---

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but but but I was told they were taking Hinch from us.

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Guess I've severely underestimated Beltran's abilities. I thought he'd make a phenomenal hitting coach, but a big league manager? Shows what I know...

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Don't beat yourself up. It's the Mets after all....so you might still be very much right.

cpsencik04 said:

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I still think our rotation next year is:

1. Justin Verlander
2. Zack Greinke
3. Lance McCullers
4. Jose Urquidy
5. Forest Whitley


after the ASB we come out with:

JV
ZG
FW
LM
JU

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I'd like James or Peacock to have another crack as a SP