Yep, if it didn't matter, why do it? This answers itself and is about the dumbest ****ing defense point in all of this.

The Astros are the Lance Armstrong of MLB, and their fans (with only a few exceptions) are the Baylor fans. The organization and players showed no concern for the integrity of the game, and their fans are cool with that. Hell, they're the victims in this whole thing - it's actually a conspiracy perpetrated by the NYY and the media.

It doesn't matter if the cheating helped or not, if a trashcan was used in the postseason or not, or who else was cheating. The Astros did wrong and the result is forever tarnished because we can never know what would have happened otherwise. They forfeited any benefit of the doubt. Try telling a professor that you should still get an A after getting caught cheating on the final exam (whether you needed to or not, and regardless of who else did it too).

I think MLB should investigate any other clubs that might have been involved in all of this and punish all offenders severely (yes, including my Rangers if applicable). I would take no pride in being 'the best cheater'.

GrapevineAg said:

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The Astros are the Lance Armstrong of MLB, and their fans (with only a few exceptions) are the Baylor fans. The organization and players showed no concern for the integrity of the game, and their fans are cool with that. Hell, they're the victims in this whole thing - it's actually a conspiracy perpetrated by the NYY and the media.

It doesn't matter if the cheating helped or not, if a trashcan was used in the postseason or not, or who else was cheating. The Astros did wrong and the result is forever tarnished because we can never know what would have happened otherwise. They forfeited any benefit of the doubt. Try telling a professor that you should still get an A after getting caught cheating on the final exam (whether you needed to or not, and regardless of who else did it too).

I think MLB should investigate any other clubs that might have been involved in all of this and punish all offenders severely (yes, including my Rangers if applicable). I would take no pride in being 'the best cheater'.

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Funny you brought up the Yankees, who had a combined 1 run against our starters in wins in 2017 alcs. But yes, it was our sign stealing that won us that series.

3) Astros/BoSox using technology to steal pitches?

4) Steroids breaking the HR record (twice)?

2) Pete Rose betting on baseball?

1) White Sox throwing the 1919 World Series?

1) Black Sox Scandal of 1919

2) steroids- Maris's 61 (even with the BS asterisk) and Aaron's 755 were two of the most sacred and seemingly unbreakable records (now it's Ryan's career K's and no-hitters and DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak are the others now) and you had multiple guys all roided out who were assaulting that record. Barry Bonds went from being about 6'2" 190-200'ish for his entire career (one in which even pre-steroids he would probably be considered one of the top-10 greatest players of all time) to being 6'2" 240 and shredded in one offseason at like 35 with otherwise inexplicable growth in the size of his melon.

3) Pete Rose betting on baseball- maybe I'm naive but I believe him when he said he never bet on his teams to lose so I think the real scandal here is him being banned for life. I'd argue he and Shoeless Joe absolutely need to be in the HOF. Especially when you look at their accomplishments and there's been a ton of investigation showing that Jackson almost certainly didn't take a payoff to throw the series.

Frankly, I don't think this thing should be much of a scandal at all considering how widespread the practice has been. Fiers forced Manfred's hand by being so vocal in public here.

It constantly amazes me how baseball fans think that as long as the coach didn't bet against his teams to lose then there was no harm.

It is a 162 game marathon season. Your team is down 4 runs in the 8th. Does a manager with money on that specific game make the same bullpen call that a regular manager does?

What if he's got the -1.5 runline? Or the UNDER 9? Is he playing to win the game or cover the spread?