Harry Dunne said:

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JABQ04 said:

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I know he was anti-clutch but he was a fun player to like.

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He was...just a good dude that was a lot of fun and busted his ass on the field.

Reddick just fell off a cliff after age 30. MVP votes and a Gold Glove at age 25. Huge part of the 2017 team, and I'll always love him for that. At age 30 his closest comparable player historically was HoVGer Paul O'Neill...the main difference being that PON (probably with some chemical help) played his best baseball from ages 31-38.

This whole Will Fuller thing has me thinking about steroids and TBH it's sad to me to see players falling off so fast in their 30s after getting spoiled by watching guys like Biggio play their best baseball after 30 and stick around until age 40.

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Agree 100% on Reddick. He was a great piece for us in 2017. Fun guy to root for. Sad to see him go, but its was probably time before 2020, at least in a starter's role. I still wouldn't mind him back in a back up / platoon type role if we need someone cheap.

Biggio's prime was fairly normal. His best years were between 27-32. He fell off pretty hard after 33. OPS+ 93, 111, 88, 96, 105, 104, 84, & 71.

I think we have had this argument before, and I don't mean to pick on Biggio specifically. I am a huge fan of his as a player and person. I think they were all using...and logically if so many players during his era were using steroids and he was one of the best in the game, it would be astounding if he was clean. There's also all of the connections - Caminiti was one of his best buddies, all the Finley & Luis Gonzalez types that came out of that early 90s Astros core that obviously juiced.

Biggio played effectively until age 41 and his OPS was .815 from age 31 to 40 after being .787 from age 22 to 30. That's highly unusual for a guy that is a 5x All-Star by age 30 and plays until age 41. We'll never know if he juiced or didn't and it really doesn't matter to me - I have zero moral outrage over steroid use. Like I said, I think they all did it and it would be much more shocking if any great player from that era was clean.

My whole point is that I actually miss those days. It was easier to be a fan when you could root for a guy for 20 years.

Harry Dunne said:

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I think we have had this argument before, and I don't mean to pick on Biggio specifically. I am a huge fan of his as a player and person. I think they were all using...and logically if so many players during his era were using steroids and he was one of the best in the game, it would be astounding if he was clean. There's also all of the connections - Caminiti was one of his best buddies, all the Finley & Luis Gonzalez types that came out of that early 90s Astros core that obviously juiced.

Biggio played effectively until age 41 and his OPS was .815 from age 31 to 40 after being .787 from age 22 to 30. That's highly unusual for a guy that is a 5x All-Star by age 30 and plays until age 41. We'll never know if he juiced or didn't and it really doesn't matter to me - I have zero moral outrage over steroid use. Like I said, I think they all did it and it would be much more shocking if any great player from that era was clean.

My whole point is that I actually miss those days. It was easier to be a fan when you could root for a guy for 20 years.

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I am with you on your last point. Which is why it sucks George is gone. I would love to have him in orange for another 10 years (assuming decent play).

There are absolutely connections to roids and no one is above suspicion that played during the 90s and 00s. Not trying to argue for Biggio there.

If you break Biggio's career down into smaller windows you'll see the decline. The 31-33 years really boost his last decade. And his first couple of years as a catcher bring down his 20s. What also helped his OPS later in life was a home stadium chance. His power numbers when way up due to the Crawford boxes and a change in approach.

22-26: .720
27-31: .868
31-36: .826
37-41: .755

He may have a slightly later prime than most, but nothing crazy like O'Neil or Ortiz.

Ortiz from age 36-40 > age 31-35 > age 26-30.

Beat40 said:

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By the way, good to see you posting!

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Yeah this football season with COVID making everything so complicated annihilated my time to post or pretty much even watch.

Thanks!

Such a random thing, but I really enjoy it.

Altuve dominating the infield and in several places in the OF. He's probably on here more than anyone.
Bregman with those Crawford shots in "deep" left.
Even Reddick makes an appearance.
I didn't see any more. I was expecting Springer.

Impressive that Bregman made the list multiple times despite only playing since 2017. I guess it speaks to the uniqueness of the Crawford boxes relative to most parks.

Also, wouldn't have guessed that RF dingers would be absolutely dominated by Curtis Granderson.

Pretty sure Brantley is on there. But I don't see any others. And Springer was hurt too much and is more of a sprayer.

going back to Biggio...ironically his knee injury in 2000...kind of spared him some of the steroid spotlight, because he clearly was not the same player afterwards. And thus his career has a fairly natural decline/drop-off that one would expect

Springer makes one appearance on the lip of the outfield grass just past the short stop.

W said:

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going back to Biggio...ironically his knee injury in 2000...kind of spared him some of the steroid spotlight, because he clearly was not the same player afterwards. And thus his career has a fairly natural decline/drop-off that one would expect

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Good point. We could argue this ad nauseam and at the end of the day it's all just speculation.

I just think it's logical that the best players in the steroid era used steroids. Steroids provide such an enormous advantage that if Biggio didn't use steroids and still had a HOF career while competing clean among rampant steroid use, he should be considered the best 2b of all time.

A lot of people don't want Biggio to have used because they like him so much as a human. Again, I don't care if he did or didn't. Partly because I have a background in the cheatingest sport of all, cycling. Floyd Landis has been portrayed in a certain way by the media and has made some big mistakes, but is truly a good and kind human being. One of his former race mechanics is a good friend of mine and many years ago before Landis admitted to doping, we would have these same type of arguments where I argued that he must be doping and my buddy would bet his life that Landis was just outworking everyone else and that a guy of his character would never cheat. He was devastated to find out that old Floyd was just like the rest of them.

Never underestimate how far a fierce competitor will go to get an edge.

it will be interesting to see if we get any "death bed" confessions from steroid-era players as they get into their 60's & 70's.

so far most of them have stayed mum on the subject

I think they are still doing it. I get the feeling baseball isn't looking real close and they are only catching the really stupid ones.

I'm excited to see how Peter Solomon progresses this year. We put him on the 40 to protect him last week, so guessing we'll see him up in the bigs sooner rather than later. Had a great 2018, then had TJ in 2019 and used all of 2020 to get in shape/condition. Obviously Click/Strom must see something they like or we wouldn't have protected him. Anyway, add him to the list of young arms to watch closely this year.

https://www.mlb.com/astros/news/peter-solomon-preparing-for-2021-with-astros

Deluxe said:

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I'm excited to see how Peter Solomon progresses this year. We put him on the 40 to protect him last week, so guessing we'll see him up in the bigs sooner rather than later. Had a great 2018, then had TJ in 2019 and used all of 2020 to get in shape/condition. Obviously Click/Strom must see something they like or we wouldn't have protected him. Anyway, add him to the list of young arms to watch closely this year.

https://www.mlb.com/astros/news/peter-solomon-preparing-for-2021-with-astros

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I enjoyed going down the rabbit hole of the articles related to that link. Good to read some baseball news again!

Thanks for posting.

Marvin said:

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I enjoyed going down the rabbit hole of the articles related to that link. Good to read some baseball news again!

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Me too brother

Big Al 1992 said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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I think they are still doing it. I get the feeling baseball isn't looking real close and they are only catching the really stupid ones.

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You mean it's not just 500 push-ups and a diet of chicken and rice??

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Doesnt everyone become a superstar by being quarantined from covid, doing push ups and eating chicken and rice every day for 3 months?

Mathguy64 said:

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I think they are still doing it. I get the feeling baseball isn't looking real close and they are only catching the really stupid ones.

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Over the quarantine they were showing old games on ESPN and I watched a bit of Mariners-Rangers from the mid 90s. Those guys were comically large. Some were every bit as big as NFL linebackers. Aaron Judge would have been just another dude (physically) in that era.

There is still some use for sure, but don't think guys are shooting straight up equine growth hormone or whatever anymore.

Indians non-tendered Naquin? Does that mean he's a free agent now, or just not going to arbitration? Possible Astros target?

redline248 said:

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Indians non-tendered Naquin? Does that mean he's a free agent now, or just not going to arbitration? Possible Astros target?

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free agent afaik, but he hasn't exactly been great. i'd rather have jake from rake farm back

Cubs non-tendered Kyle Schwarber.

mazag08 said:

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Give me both Naquin and Jake. Sign Brantley.

LF: Brantley / Tucker
CF: Tucker / Marisnick
RF: Naquin / Marisnick
DH: Yordan / Brantley

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Maybe switch Marisknick to starting CF and have Naquin at the 4th OFer. Otherwise, hell to the yeah.

Farmer1906 said:

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mazag08 said:

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Give me both Naquin and Jake. Sign Brantley.

LF: Brantley / Tucker
CF: Tucker / Marisnick
RF: Naquin / Marisnick
DH: Yordan / Brantley

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Maybe switch Marisknick to starting CF and have Naquin at the 4th OFer. Otherwise, hell to the yeah.

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Potentially..

But I still see Naquin's ceiling as higher than Jake's. We know exactly what Jake is.. and an everyday starter is not it.

And don't forget about Naquin's rocket arm.

Offensively, maybe. I'd say Jake has been better at the plate over the last few years.

Defensively, Jake is elite in CF. I agree Naquin has a cannon, but he's still below Tucker in RF. If I can have much improved defense, I'll take a wash or slightly worse offense.

Yeah Jake had his chances with the Astros to be an everyday guy. I'm ready for new pieces to prove themselves

Was Jake sent to the Mets by Lunhow or Click?

Lunhow. It was before the World Series with the Nats

Luhnow

tjack16 said:

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Yeah Jake had his chances with the Astros to be an everyday guy. I'm ready for new pieces to prove themselves

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Yes, and the last of those chances was 2019, when he led the team in CF starts and we had 107 Ws.

That's a little tongue in cheek - that team would have had still 100 wins with Tyler White in center and Jake was really never an "everyday" guy in CF, but my point is that he made around half of the team's CF starts from 2015-2019 and has proven he can be a solid platoon CF on great teams.

I agree that we know what Jake is, and it would be more exciting to get a guy with upside, but anyone with upside that can play CF is going to cost, and I think that having a stud defensive everyday CF is overrated (and our own playoff usage proves that).