South Platte said:

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Mr Gigem said:

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Restructuring deals in MLB really isn't a thing. It can be done, but MLBPA has to approve it so good luck with that.

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Appreciate you being a gentle curb to keep me from running off the road.

So we couldn't have given Seager an extension in January for an additional year at a higher salary while trimming his 2024 salary?

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Unlike the NFL, MLB contracts are fully guaranteed. So there is virtually no incentive for the player to agree to a renegotiation for less money, even for one year.

Proposition Joe said:

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Montgomery is sporting a 6.25 ERA this season. So yeah he might be pitching well as of late and might contribute to a playoff team -- but him being signed for 2024 in Texas based on his contributions this year would have had us sitting with 69 losses instead of 68 (-1.3+ WAR).

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If we sign him in December I don't see him struggling like he has this year. I think Boras effing him over, firing Boras, and having to pitch in front of a crowd full of Affliction shirts screwed Monty up.

How do you take the 2024 stats and use WAR to recalculate our current record?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TEX/2024.shtml

I don't know the answer to that. I think it's what I said earlier. It could be done, but it is to be approved my MLBPA (it wouldn't), and there's no REAL benefit to doing that? What is paying him less money for a single year going to do?

PropJoe is right. This season has been a catastrophe. We couldn't all get healthy at the same time, and the drop in offensive production has been a real head scratcher.

South Platte said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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Montgomery is sporting a 6.25 ERA this season. So yeah he might be pitching well as of late and might contribute to a playoff team -- but him being signed for 2024 in Texas based on his contributions this year would have had us sitting with 69 losses instead of 68 (-1.3+ WAR).

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If we sign him in December I don't see him struggling like he has this year. I think Boras effing him over, firing Boras, and having to pitch in front of a crowd full of Affliction shirts screwed Monty up.

How do you take the 2024 stats and use WAR to recalculate our current record?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TEX/2024.shtml

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I'm as big a Jordan Montomery fan as there was (I'm on record that I thought he would be the key down the stretch, not Scherzer), but it takes a special kind of gymnastics to take a guy that was asking for a multi-year deal that no one was interested in, had to settle on an expensive 1 year deal, goes out and puts up a 6.25 ERA... a guy that pitched almost a run better than his career last year... and say that not signing him was a mistake by our GM.

Based on all of the things we actually know, it was one of the shrewdest moves CY made not to sign him to what he was asking.

And "pitching well as of late" is being just a weeeeeee bit kind.

His last 4 outings have been 4IP/6ER, 3IP/1ER, 5.2IP/4ER, 6.0IP/3ER...

He's "pitching OK as of the last game against a team 30+ games under 0.500".

https://www.lonestarball.com/2024/8/19/24223513/the-2025-lineup-dilemma

Good perspective.

I think the Rangers will retain CY and ultimately, he'll have an active off-season.

I really don't think the Rangers are that far off. I don't think we were that far away from winning 15-20 more games. They shot themselves in the foot over-and-over-and-over. Some of that is just baseball and the grind, but more of 2024 seemed like lack of caring and focus. I know they care, but sometimes you had to wonder if they were MLB players. Like Jung's miss on from Taveras this week. Or Taveras' OF play most nights.

Offensively, I don't know if the Hitting Coach is the problem, per se. Sure, 2023. However, it just seemed like for months... the book was out on players (high 4S FB) and they didn't adjust. Throw LateLowe a 4S FB. Period.

Hopefully Langford will get better treatment... at the least... he needs to protect the plate with 2 strikes.

Adolis ... I think going to Arb was negative. I think he felt he was slighted by not getting a long-term deal. Ultimately, he took a 2yr deal that allowed both sides to say they won. I don't think it sat well with Adolis. I don't know if he hit the weights more... or just didn't focus on baseball this off-season. He has finally gotten to where he needed to be. I do think he'll have a monster 2025 because it will be a contract year. Ride him in 2025 and let him head off into the sunset after the off-season after 2025.

We need a DH and legit backup C.

I'd like to resign Carson Kelly. If offloads Heim at C and gives us a Garver type backup.

A healthy Jung. Josh Smith?! Is he a long-term role player? Duran needs to up his game.

Taveras (25) needs to improve defensively. References to any CF of the Rangers applies. DeShields, Leonys Martin, Julio Borbon, Kapler, Goodwin...

/End Rant

I'm so freaking pissed at this team.

We have to draw a line in the sand on this whole developing pitching talent in our farm system thing that we've ignored for 50 years. One of you baseball gurus explain how this works. Did Brent Strom have any say in how the Astros farm system developed pitchers? Who is the next Brent Strom? Why can't we identify and sign/draft talent? Who is responsible for this and why do they suck at their job? Still chuckle at "DVD".

International talent. We never have any of these guys contribute to our MLB roster. At one point we had Mazara, Odor, and Profar. It seems we've gone the free agency/trade route and given up on finding international talent aside from Walcott. Carter and Langford seem to be excellent draft picks with long MLB careers ahead of them.

Leiter, Rocker, Walcott. Rosario? Is that the end of our list?

Seager

Damn that ball left in a hurry!

South Platte said:

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I'm so freaking pissed at this team.

We have to draw a line in the sand on this whole developing pitching talent in our farm system thing that we've ignored for 50 years. One of you baseball gurus explain how this works. Did Brent Strom have any say in how the Astros farm system developed pitchers? Who is the next Brent Strom? Why can't we identify and sign/draft talent? Who is responsible for this and why do they suck at their job? Still chuckle at "DVD".

International talent. We never have any of these guys contribute to our MLB roster. At one point we had Mazara, Odor, and Profar. It seems we've gone the free agency/trade route and given up on finding international talent aside from Walcott. Carter and Langford seem to be excellent draft picks with long MLB careers ahead of them.

Leiter, Rocker, Walcott. Rosario? Is that the end of our list?

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Two other pitchers are Santos and Teodo, they have done well this year. But both still have a ways to go, not mlb candidates for 2025. Rocker or Leiter are the best shots for help in 2025. No idea on Winn anymore, think he is that, but he seems stuck at AAA level;

No idea on how that emoji got on there... on phone.

Nate Lowe is what I think is called BP hero. He hits mammoth home runs in BP, but that never translates to the game. He's a completely different hitter

That inning was a big WTF from 789 hitters. Wow

Three Ks on 10 pitches…impressive stuff

Kudos to some of you die hards for watching what's left of this soggy **** sandwich season.

cmiller00 said:

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Once the game starts it's still baseball.

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Yep. I grew up watching plenty of bad Ranger baseball. This ain't nothing compared to some of teams of the past

South Platte said:

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I'm so freaking pissed at this team.

We have to draw a line in the sand on this whole developing pitching talent in our farm system thing that we've ignored for 50 years. One of you baseball gurus explain how this works. Did Brent Strom have any say in how the Astros farm system developed pitchers? Who is the next Brent Strom? Why can't we identify and sign/draft talent? Who is responsible for this and why do they suck at their job? Still chuckle at "DVD".

International talent. We never have any of these guys contribute to our MLB roster. At one point we had Mazara, Odor, and Profar. It seems we've gone the free agency/trade route and given up on finding international talent aside from Walcott. Carter and Langford seem to be excellent draft picks with long MLB careers ahead of them.

Leiter, Rocker, Walcott. Rosario? Is that the end of our list?

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There is a lot going on in your post.

I think there is a disconnect between our Scouting... our Development... and our Coaching, for Ps. I could be completely wrong. Historically, I think we've scouted and drafted players based on best pitcher. Then, we plug that pitcher into our system. In some regimes, that meant teaching specific pitches universally. I think Maddux is a great in-game manager, but you aren't giving instruction on developing pitches in-game. He manages emotions and expectations. He isn't teaching new pitches making adjustments. He has almost no visibility into the bullpen during the season.

I think CY + Maddux went out and got Gray and gave him a strategy for what they thought he could be. Gray had the same ideas and felt the Rangers coming to him with the same approach was a good fit. That, I think is how it should roll. CY+Maddux set an expectation and should work with our Scouting team to find pitchers that fit organizationally.

From what I understand, Leiter was the best pitcher available, but it was known he didn't have the type of command you want from a #1. As he has gone up in the org, the Rangers haven't addressed it, and when he gets to MLB in a game, Maddux isn't going to fix it.

Int'l?! Preller and Int'l Pool money. We loaded up on Int'l players and MLB implemented Int'l Pool money and Int'l Draft clearing houses to ensure everything was legit and even. Preller got in trouble for "questionable" birth certificates and paying influencer (coaches) for players. You can't do that anymore.

Personally, DR players are a high-risk for PEDs and that will always be a problem.

Quite the lineup for Frisco this week:

Frisco probables this week:
Wednesday: Rocker
Thursday: DeGrom
Friday: Scherzer https://t.co/EW3j6OOwxZ

— Evan Grant (@Evan_P_Grant) August 19, 2024

Let's see if we can finish .500.

KT 90 said:

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South Platte said:

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Leiter, Rocker, Walcott. Rosario? Is that the end of our list?

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Two other pitchers are Santos and Teodo, they have done well this year. But both still have a ways to go, not mlb candidates for 2025. Rocker or Leiter are the best shots for help in 2035. No idea on Winn anymore, think he is that, but he seems stuck at AAA level;

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Typo?!

I also like Kohl Drake. He has made some adjustments and looks solid in '24. Reminds me of Bradford.

Winn is on the 60IL (shoulder). No clue either.

I think with Eovaldi, deGrom, Mahle, and Gray... you are looking at no more than 135IP/each (27GS; 5IP). That's about 540IP. That requires 54 GS from other SPs.

Bradford and Dunning will help. Based on the current rotation, Bradford is ahead of Dunning. Dunning needs to get that new pitch perfected.

I think we'll see several from the farm.

Leiter is the only one on the 40.
White and Winn are on the 40 and if they remain on the roster I can see us getting an early look.
Teodo and Rocker will make appearances, if in the BP. Drake, as well. But, they'll all 3 have to be after we cut White and/or Winn.

Fixed

Dunning may be more cut out for a reliever role. Physically his body doesn't seem to hold up when he gets moved to the rotation. Velo drop last night lead to him being removed. Gray should be back this week, so we swap those two when Dunning (likely) hits the IL.

The Rangers latest pitching injury concern: Dane Dunninghttps://t.co/p9KrQT7WRK

— Evan Grant (@Evan_P_Grant) August 20, 2024

DallasAg 94 said:

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South Platte said:

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I'm so freaking pissed at this team.

We have to draw a line in the sand on this whole developing pitching talent in our farm system thing that we've ignored for 50 years. One of you baseball gurus explain how this works. Did Brent Strom have any say in how the Astros farm system developed pitchers? Who is the next Brent Strom? Why can't we identify and sign/draft talent? Who is responsible for this and why do they suck at their job? Still chuckle at "DVD".

International talent. We never have any of these guys contribute to our MLB roster. At one point we had Mazara, Odor, and Profar. It seems we've gone the free agency/trade route and given up on finding international talent aside from Walcott. Carter and Langford seem to be excellent draft picks with long MLB careers ahead of them.

Leiter, Rocker, Walcott. Rosario? Is that the end of our list?

---

There is a lot going on in your post.

I think there is a disconnect between our Scouting... our Development... and our Coaching, for Ps. I could be completely wrong. Historically, I think we've scouted and drafted players based on best pitcher. Then, we plug that pitcher into our system. In some regimes, that meant teaching specific pitches universally. I think Maddux is a great in-game manager, but you aren't giving instruction on developing pitches in-game. He manages emotions and expectations. He isn't teaching new pitches making adjustments. He has almost no visibility into the bullpen during the season.

I think CY + Maddux went out and got Gray and gave him a strategy for what they thought he could be. Gray had the same ideas and felt the Rangers coming to him with the same approach was a good fit. That, I think is how it should roll. CY+Maddux set an expectation and should work with our Scouting team to find pitchers that fit organizationally.

From what I understand, Leiter was the best pitcher available, but it was known he didn't have the type of command you want from a #1. As he has gone up in the org, the Rangers haven't addressed it, and when he gets to MLB in a game, Maddux isn't going to fix it.

Int'l?! Preller and Int'l Pool money. We loaded up on Int'l players and MLB implemented Int'l Pool money and Int'l Draft clearing houses to ensure everything was legit and even. Preller got in trouble for "questionable" birth certificates and paying influencer (coaches) for players. You can't do that anymore.

Personally, DR players are a high-risk for PEDs and that will always be a problem.

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Thanks for sharing the info. It's hard to believe that our franchise has essentially whiffed on the development process for 50 years and has relied on trades and free agency. You would think we would luck into a few great pitchers at some point.

Why didn't we address Leiter's issues earlier? We have to go find better minor league coaching. It can't be this hard.

Kind of insane. Kevin Brown, CJ Wilson, and Kenny Rogers are the only guys you'd want near the top of the rotation that we have ever drafted and developed. Then you are quickly looking at the Rick Helling/Derek Holland/Darren Oliver types. Even Colby Lewis had to go elsewhere to develop into what he was during his second stint with us.

rbtexan said:

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There are 30 MLB teams, and only around 6 of them have done a good job of developing pitching. So yeah, it's actually that hard.

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You can't be serious.

Tampa
Oakland
Houston
Atlanta
SF
NYY
LAD
Philadelphia
Florida

That's without even thinking. There are probably 10 others with 5-10 year stretches where they have done an excellent job. Some of the above have had multiple periods where they have been done very well developing pitching.

And the Rangers have developed pitching to, in the past. Depends on how long of a sample size you want to look at.

If you look at the teams who have consistently developed pitching, it's around 6. Every team has little runs of doing it. Or are we just going to ignore Kenny Rogers, Derek Holland, Kevin Brown, C.J. Wilson, Bobby Witt, etc.

Do the Rangers need to do a better job of it? Sure they do, but so do most teams. It's also getting harder to do because the game is changing so rapidly and drastically in regards to starting pitching. In 2016, Max Scherzer pitched 228 innings and that would be high in 2024. In '74 Nolan Ryan threw 332 innings with over 200 walks and 367 Ks. Gaylord Perry once threw a 19 inning complete game.

Personally I'd rather see the Rangers try to get in front of what's causing all the pitching injuries before they start making changes to how they develop pitchers. I personally don't think the current way of doing things is sustainable, pitchers are blowing their arms out left and right (pun intended).