Astros/Rangers Discussion - NO MODS ALLOWED

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DallasAg 94
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You are correct.

Last year I beat the drum that few people heard.

The LAD had something like 10 P on the 60IL last year and Tampa was equally as devastated.

The LAD were predictable in their early exit and I warned people. Kershaw was down about 3-4 mph at the end of the season and the only reason he pitched in the playoffs was because he was Kershaw. They had so much injury that they traded for Lance Lynn and he made their playoff roster.

We're seeing more of the same this year. It will be attrition. It is the big swing-and-miss guys that are mostly going down.

Like the Rangers, some teams (Yankees) are signing or trading for guys to put on the 60IL in hopes they'll return during the season. The Rangers signed FA Mahle for 2yrs/$21M in hopes of a July/Aug appearance. I forget the guy the Yankees just traded for. You get to put those guys on the 60IL and they don't take up a roster spot during the season.

Former Rangers GM Jon Daniels was one that was trying to address the issue almost a decade ago. He toyed with the idea of a 6'man rotation like they have in Japan. Hamels lost his **** and was very outspoken against it. JD was vocal about changing his mindset from signing the big $30M SP to signing 3 $10M Ps knowing one would go down with TJ. If the $30M FA (Snell, deGrom) blows out his arm, you are stuck with an empty replacement likely from AAA or AA. If one or two $10M P blows his arm out, you still have a MLB P or two.

JD also toyed with the idea of not letting Ps they drafted out of HS throw their signed year. We had a group that he drafted in June and they worked on building their core body strength. He believed lack of proper strength training might be leading to injuries. That ended with like 4 of the 5 P having TJ.
AustinCountyAg
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I agree with much of what you said. Reason #1 why the Astros shouldn't rush JV back. The season is LONG and no need to completely ruin it now. Also it's a great reason why you go sign Bauer NOW. Luckily the Astros have guys coming back in the summer, but they are question marks and you can never have too much pitching. Especially a guy like Bauer for league minimum.
jkag89
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Quote:

Also it's a great reason why you go sign Bauer NOW.
Eff NO!

Why do you want that proven clubhouse cancer ruining team chemistry? Bauer's possible upside is not worth the likely downside. There is are reasons why all thirty MLB teams have passed on him even though he can be signed on the cheap.
tjack16
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AG
Take this ranking with a grain of salt but I'd put us ahead of Padres/Dodgers after last season
AustinCountyAg
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jkag89 said:

Quote:

Also it's a great reason why you go sign Bauer NOW.
Eff NO!

Why do you want that proven clubhouse cancer ruining team chemistry? Bauer's possible upside is not worth the likely downside. There is are reasons why all thirty MLB teams have passed on him even though he can be signed on the cheap.
I want him because the Astros are 4-7 and JV, Framber, LMJ, Garcia, and Urquidy are all hurt. That is why I want him. If the past 12 games haven't shown you how important pitching is I don't know what to tell you.

You can throw the "clubhouse cancer" card all you want, but the facts remain he can help this team win. For everything he's been through I'd be willing to bet he would be one of the better teammates on this team. Not to mention you get him for a year at league minimum with him trying to prove himself for a better salary. sign me the F up.
DallasAg 94
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If you only play to win... by all means sign Bauer.

If you think he has been vindicated in off-the-field non-baseball distractions and that is the only problem you think he has... by all means sign Bauer.

However, if you actually look at his background and history... I'd pass.

He was hated by his HS teammates. As a parent who has raised kids in youth sports, this can go both ways. HS boys have a pack mentality and once the pack turns on you it can be terrible. He took that to UCLA and was teammates with Gerritt Cole. By all accounts Bauer was not liked at UCLA.

Why?

Here is something:




Then, he started calling out all MLB pitchers for using sticky stuff saying something like 75% of P doctor balls. He called out Manfred for being a moron who doesn't know how to run baseball and accused him of destroying the game.

For me, it is his off-the-field baseball related issues that distract from a "team" and draw attention solely to him and in a game like baseball that is part of the unwritten rules. There is a lot of stuff that goes on in a lockerroom and in a clubhouse and most of that stuff gets handled inside.

Imagine Bauer tweeting out pictures during the 2017 season that the Astros were stealing signs and using live video feed. You think guys like Maldonado wouldn't scuffle with Bauer?!

On the one hand is an incredibly talented P who likely slots in at #1 or #2 in almost every rotation... on the other hand... he is one of those punchable guys that even teammates can't stand.
texasaggie2015
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AG
I will never understand why people want Bauer. There's a reason nobody has picked him up yet. He made very few friends in baseball- and there's a reason for that. The dude is a complete ass and wouldn't be welcomed in the Houston clubhouse or any other clubhouse for that matter.

If there were teams who believed he could come in and help them win without destroying the chemistry of the clubhouse, he would be signed by now.
jkag89
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Quote:

You can throw the "clubhouse cancer" card all you want, but the facts remain he may help this team win. .
FIFY, IMO his possible upside is not worth the risk of his likely downside.
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For everything he's been through I'd be willing to bet he would be one of the better teammates on this team.
I'm not nor are any of the other 29 MLB clubs.
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Not to mention you get him for a year at league minimum with him trying to prove himself for a better salary. sign me the F up
That was last year. This year he is a free agent.
AustinCountyAg
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jkag89 said:

Quote:

You can throw the "clubhouse cancer" card all you want, but the facts remain he may help this team win. .
FIFY, IMO his possible upside is not worth the risk of his likely downside.
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For everything he's been through I'd be willing to bet he would be one of the better teammates on this team.
I'm not nor are any of the other 29 MLB clubs.
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Not to mention you get him for a year at league minimum with him trying to prove himself for a better salary. sign me the F up
That was last year. This year he is a free agent.
exactly, hence you can sign him for league minimum.


I agree with many here that he is a complete wildcard and he in fact could be terrible in terms of team chemistry. My point is the astros need pitching and if you can get him for cheap what would it hurt? If he starts rocking the boat you cut him. There is also a chance he comes in and keeps to himself and pitches his ass off every five days and doesn't cause any distractions.....I'd bet a team takes a chance on him sooner rather than later.

Lets not be nave and pretend every player in the clubhouse on all the teams are the perfect teammate and perfect human. We all know of his problems, but if he's able to STFU and help the team win I am pretty sure mot players and fans will be able to get over it. The guy deserves a second chance IMO. He's made mistakes no doubt, but nothing he's done has warranted him being completely blackballed by MLB IMO.



now I will take cover as I prepare for the stones that will be thrown my way
jkag89
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Quote:

exactly, hence you can sign him for league minimum.
No, he has service time in MLB. I don't know how cheaply he can be signed but it is not league minimum. Last year a team could pick him up off waivers for league minimum since LA was picking up the rest of his salary. The fact not a single team did so should set off alarm bells. Other than getting back into ball in the States, why would he sign for significantly less than he can get in Japan?
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Lets not be naive and pretend every player in the clubhouse on all the teams are the perfect teammate and perfect human
Nobody is claiming that. First, the Astros have much better chemistry than most as is indicated in almost every interview of players coming from other organizations. Second, the fact that not a single MLB team has given Bauer a shot despite his potential upside should be an indication of how much of a cancer he is.
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We all know of his problems, but if he's able to STFU and help the team win I am pretty sure mot players and fans will be able to get over it.
Sure but he was not even able to do that last season in Japan. If he were capable of behaving, why did he act like his usual self? He certainly pitched well enough to pique the interest of MLB teams but he could not help being a dewsh even though he had to know his behavior was under intense scrutiny. The man just does not give an Eff to change.
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The guy deserves a second chance
Would you think the same if he were a pitcher of average MLB talent?
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He's made mistakes no doubt, but nothing he's done has warranted him being completely blackballed by MLB.
Nothing in isolation was bad enough, I agree. Maybe even as a whole but there comes a point where what a player can bring to the table is just not worth all the BS. Seemingly this is the case for ALL 30 MLB organizations when it comes to Trevor Bauer.
AustinCountyAg
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jkag89 said:

Quote:

exactly, hence you can sign him for league minimum.
No, he has service time in MLB. I don't know how cheaply he can be signed but it is not league minimum. Last year a team could pick him up off waivers for league minimum since LA was picking up the rest of his salary. The fact not a single team did so should set off alarm bells. Other than getting back into ball in the States, why would he sign for significantly less than he can get in Japan?
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Lets not be naive and pretend every player in the clubhouse on all the teams are the perfect teammate and perfect human
Nobody is claiming that. First, the Astros have much better chemistry than most as is indicated in almost every interview of players coming from other organizations. Second, the fact that not a single MLB team has given Bauer a shot despite his potential upside should be an indication of how much of a cancer he is.
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We all know of his problems, but if he's able to STFU and help the team win I am pretty sure mot players and fans will be able to get over it.
Sure but he was not even able to do that last season in Japan. If he were capable of behaving, why did he act like his usual self? He certainly pitched well enough to pique the interest of MLB teams but he could not help being a dewsh even though he had to know his behavior was under intense scrutiny. The man just does not give an Eff to change.
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The guy deserves a second chance
Would you think the same if he were a pitcher of average MLB talent?
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He's made mistakes no doubt, but nothing he's done has warranted him being completely blackballed by MLB.
Nothing in isolation was bad enough, I agree. Maybe even as a whole but there comes a point where what a player can bring to the table is just not worth all the BS. Seemingly this is the case for ALL 30 MLB organizations when it comes to Trevor Bauer.
can you expand on that? I haven't seen anything negative about him acting a certain way in Japan? He would sign in MLB for less money vs Japan because he wants to compete at the best, and have that opportunity to get a new big contract.

He's deserves a second chance because of the false accusations that suspended him from the league, which in turn has now left him unemployed in MLB. I'd feel the same for anyone who had there career ruined for false accusations. Being good, or not has nothing to do with that.
DallasAg 94
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AustinCountyAg said:

jkag89 said:

Quote:

You can throw the "clubhouse cancer" card all you want, but the facts remain he may help this team win. .
FIFY, IMO his possible upside is not worth the risk of his likely downside.
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For everything he's been through I'd be willing to bet he would be one of the better teammates on this team.
I'm not nor are any of the other 29 MLB clubs.
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Not to mention you get him for a year at league minimum with him trying to prove himself for a better salary. sign me the F up
That was last year. This year he is a free agent.
exactly, hence you can sign him for league minimum.

...


now I will take cover as I prepare for the stones that will be thrown my way
Some additional responses...

You could probably get him for cheap. League Min? Maybe... to support your point and counter jkag89... he'd take any offer from a MLB team knowing the pockets are deep. He can make more in 2025 from MLB if he keeps quiet than he can make in Japan. 2024 could be a sunk investment to get the real prize.

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I agree with many here that he is a complete wildcard and he in fact could be terrible in terms of team chemistry. My point is the astros need pitching and if you can get him for cheap what would it hurt? If he starts rocking the boat you cut him. There is also a chance he comes in and keeps to himself and pitches his ass off every five days and doesn't cause any distractions.....I'd bet a team takes a chance on him sooner rather than later.
At what point can you cut him? For Cleveland, in 2016 he cut his pinky on a drone and was unable to pitch in the ALCS. Last year when would the Astros have been able to cut Bauer without fan revolt?

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Lets not be nave and pretend every player in the clubhouse on all the teams are the perfect teammate and perfect human. We all know of his problems, but if he's able to STFU and help the team win I am pretty sure mot players and fans will be able to get over it. The guy deserves a second chance IMO. He's made mistakes no doubt, but nothing he's done has warranted him being completely blackballed by MLB IMO.
I don't think people want him to be perfect. They want teammates that are not a distraction. He has made public statements to the media that the commissioner of the sport he played... was destroying the league. Now, if your spouse posts on Facebook that you are abusing her, you good to take her back? I'm all for a little crazy... just not full crazy.

There will likely be a team desperate enough to sign him. NYM... SDP... but I don't think the Astros nor the Rangers are desperate enough to sign him. Corey Seager was a teammate of his with the LAD. As Rangers fans have opined... if Seager says Bauer is worth signing... then, you sign him. Look on the Astros and see who has played with him and then see if you think that guy would be ok bringing him into the clubhouse.

As I mentioned, Bauer called out 75% of MLB as cheaters. He could be right. Now look at the 13 P on the Astros staff and tell me which 9 P you think are cheating and wouldn't have a problem sharing the Bullpen with him.

jkag89
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AustinCountyAg
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So he got pissed that his inf looked like a little league team? All I saw was him yelling **** a lot then going in the tunnel to relieve stress out of camera view. Seemed like the professional and smart thing to do in that situation considering in every pro sport you go to there are players in every game yelling ****.
I stopped watching when they started talking about stuff from 5 years ago.


Give me a break if you think that's him being a problem in Japan. Judging from the massive stadium sellouts and fan support seemed like they had no problem with him.
The Porkchop Express
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AG
I think it's much more likely that a few teams have talked to him but he isn't willing to pitch for cheap. So everyone is blowing him off.
jkag89
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True, fans in Japan seemingly don't have problem with him. He is getting paid very good money there, Since he is not a pariah in Japan he is also probably getting endorsement deals he would never ever get in the US. As such I think it is going to take a quite a bit more cash than "league minimum" to get him to return to the states. hence more risk. Sure you can release him if his antics eventually prove not worth it for what he gives you on the field but you still have to pay him.

I'm not against MLB giving Bauer a second chance, I'm against the Astros being the team giving him that chance and don't think it would be a wise move even if you believe the current Astros pitching situation might warrant such a deal.
Marvin
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AG
I'd prefer not to tar and feather Bauer if all charges were dropped… but he's still a jackass. I would not want to see him in my team's uniform.
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
cc10106
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gigem1223
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Should we let the Angel fans in on this discussion? Do they exist?
South Platte
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Entire AL West looking like dog piss right now.
tjack16
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AG
South Platte said:

Entire AL West looking like dog piss right now.


I mean the final 2 months of the season last year nobody seemed to want to win it.

Astros could have run away with it… couldn't win a home game in September to save their lives.
Rangers could have won it… swept by Astros at home and couldn't hold off the mariners.
Mariners could have won it… but lost 5 of 6 to the Astros and rangers with about a week and a half in the season.
South Platte
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tjack16 said:

South Platte said:

Entire AL West looking like dog piss right now.


I mean the final 2 months of the season last year nobody seemed to want to win it.

Astros could have run away with it… couldn't win a home game in September to save their lives.
Rangers could have won it… swept by Astros at home and couldn't hold off the mariners.
Mariners could have won it… but lost 5 of 6 to the Astros and rangers with about a week and a half in the season.
I actually don't mind seeing NYY at the top of the AL. Baseball is more fun when they are good. I hope the Pirates become the story of the season.

Good lord. Just saw Montgomery fired Boras for blowing the offseason. It's a little late, Monty.
Craigy
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Got the World Champs coming to the garage door place for the weekend!
South Platte
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Diaz takes Singer deep. He's an enormous upgrade from Maldy. Espanda making tweaks to all the right places.
tjack16
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AG
South Platte said:

tjack16 said:

South Platte said:

Entire AL West looking like dog piss right now.


I mean the final 2 months of the season last year nobody seemed to want to win it.

Astros could have run away with it… couldn't win a home game in September to save their lives.
Rangers could have won it… swept by Astros at home and couldn't hold off the mariners.
Mariners could have won it… but lost 5 of 6 to the Astros and rangers with about a week and a half in the season.
I actually don't mind seeing NYY at the top of the AL. Baseball is more fun when they are good. I hope the Pirates become the story of the season.

Good lord. Just saw Montgomery fired Boras for blowing the offseason. It's a little late, Monty.


I think it's the orioles year in the AL this year. They're about to go on an impressive run with all their young talent and farm system
tjack16
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AG
Well looking like both teams are rolling into Minute Maid with negative momentum
jkag89
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'Stros have plenty of momentum. A nose dive straight into the ground.
greg.w.h
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AG
tjack16 said:

Well looking like both teams are rolling into Minute Maid with negative momentum
While true, it's early.
Grapesoda2525
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tjack16 said:

Well looking like both teams are rolling into Minute Maid with negative momentum
If anything will wake up the rangers bats, it should be a trip to Minute Maid.
tjack16
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AG
Grapesoda2525 said:

tjack16 said:

Well looking like both teams are rolling into Minute Maid with negative momentum
If anything will wake up the rangers bats, it should be a trip to Minute Maid.


Our stifling pitching staff that just gave up *checks notes* a million runs to the royals will help with that as well
DallasAg 94
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And I probably should wait until after the series, but the Astros have the advantage of hitting at home, as well.
Grapesoda2525
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It's an interesting series because both teams kinda stink right now. The last year or two, we were both the best teams in the AL when we would play. Rangers seem to have just as much, if not more injury issues then last year and the Astros have an all star pitching staff on the disabled list.
agent-maroon
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AG
Still better to be stinking in first place rather than last, amirite?
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AgsWin2011
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AG

tjack16
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AG
AgsWin2011 said:





We're only 4-9 in that graphic… I'll take that over our actual 4-10 record
 
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