Btw, they were an example of someone who realized they were getting jacked on the sell-it-back plan and switched to a regular plan

so people who have them love them.. people who don't hate them.

got it, lol.

Good comments all around.

Again, I'm looking more for.. What are the risks and pitfalls?

I've got a masters in finance so I understand ROI and TVM calcs. It's more of the "unknown risk and cost associated with owning these things" that I'm looking for.

ChoppinDs40 said:

---

so people who have them love them.. people who don't hate them.

got it, lol.

Good comments all around.

Again, I'm looking more for.. What are the risks and pitfalls?

I've got a masters in finance so I understand ROI and TVM calcs. It's more of the "unknown risk and cost associated with owning these things" that I'm looking for.

---

You either buy them to be green or for financial benefit. If you don't want that feedback, not sure there are really any risks to be worried about.

ChoppinDs40 said:

---

so people who have them love them.. people who don't hate them.

got it, lol.

Good comments all around.

Again, I'm looking more for.. What are the risks and pitfalls?

I've got a masters in finance so I understand ROI and TVM calcs. It's more of the "unknown risk and cost associated with owning these things" that I'm looking for.

---

Big things I want to know is:
1) How do they hold up to hail?
2) How much does it raise insurance prices to cover them?

ChoppinDs40 said:

---

Kenneth_2003 said:

---

Like just mentioned I expect Texas to move in the coming years to allow grid owners to pay reduced rates and not just the negative amount that your REP is charging you to receive power. You're an unpredictable generator and they have to over pay market to move your power.

Also you mentioned the panels not being damaged by hail, but when that hail tears up the rest of your roof... who pays for the panels to be removed and reinstalled?

---

Can you explain your first paragraph? Are you saying the power I produce won't be at the same rate I'm paying? I don't follow.

Hail question - they come out, uninstall, sub a new roof contractor, and put them back up. I understand free of charge - need to confirm that.

---

Sorry, today has been...

My current understanding, if you buy power from the grid at, say for example, $0.10 / kwh power flows from the pole into your home and the meter ticks forward by 1 and your bill goes up $0.10. Your panels produce power and send it to the pole and onto the larger grid your meter ticks backwards by 1 kwh and your bill goes down by $0.10.

Grid operators don't like this. They have to transport your generated power for free. I could be wrong... but it wouldn't surprise me to see the rules change so that you sell your excess power at a discount. Or the grid operator gets to charge you a fee for accepting and transporting your generated power.

Roof replacement. Odds of a fire go up compared to homes without them. There are a few ways to look at it.

there is a 2 cent "line service fee" for each KWH you upload...

its much better to have a home battery bank store the excess power you dont use. It also will replace the need for a backup generator

Kenneth_2003 said:

---

ChoppinDs40 said:

---

Kenneth_2003 said:

---

Like just mentioned I expect Texas to move in the coming years to allow grid owners to pay reduced rates and not just the negative amount that your REP is charging you to receive power. You're an unpredictable generator and they have to over pay market to move your power.

Also you mentioned the panels not being damaged by hail, but when that hail tears up the rest of your roof... who pays for the panels to be removed and reinstalled?

---

Can you explain your first paragraph? Are you saying the power I produce won't be at the same rate I'm paying? I don't follow.

Hail question - they come out, uninstall, sub a new roof contractor, and put them back up. I understand free of charge - need to confirm that.

---

Sorry, today has been...

My current understanding, if you buy power from the grid at, say for example, $0.10 / kwh power flows from the pole into your home and the meter ticks forward by 1 and your bill goes up $0.10. Your panels produce power and send it to the pole and onto the larger grid your meter ticks backwards by 1 kwh and your bill goes down by $0.10.

Grid operators don't like this. They have to transport your generated power for free. I could be wrong... but it wouldn't surprise me to see the rules change so that you sell your excess power at a discount. Or the grid operator gets to charge you a fee for accepting and transporting your generated power.

---

This depends.

PG&E pays $0.048 per kwh for buy back. about 1/10 of what they charge. So it's better to use the power or store it then sell it back to the grid.

1/10th sounds light, but I could see buying back at 25% to 50% as being fair given the cost to transmit power and establishing reliable sources of power instead of fair weather surpluses. If Texas doesn't currently do something like this (conflicting reports in this thread), hopefully we do soon. Everyone should be paying their fair share, as the saying goes.

Question for those of you that have them. Did you replace your roof before adding them? I've seen some people that had them installed in my neighborhood that put them on top of roofs that were already 10 years old. I'm guessing that the remaining life of the roof is less than the anticipated life of the panels.

So what do you do when the roof needs to be replaced? Pull the panels off and put them back on?

Best if the roof is newer for sure. I think most solar companies won't install them if they think your roof is in the last 5-7 years of life. But if it does need replacement, then yes, your roofer needs to coordinate with the solar co to come out and take them off and put them back on. I think probably a half day of labor on each end, maybe closer to a day on bigger jobs. Most folks I know that have added solar either had a recent roof replacement or arranged one just beforehand

I would discuss this with your electric provider. Mine pays far lower maybe (1/4 of what you are changed) the rate when they buy power from you. Most people don't realize in a blackout, if you don't have batteries, you will be offline just like everyone else.

Comeby! said:

---

Run that 5 year math by me again? 15% of usage but matching your monthly power bill?

---

Usage plus 15%, so 115% to guarantee you don't underproduce at any point.

One risk is the company not being around in 25 years to honor the warranty. Even if not a fly by night, 25 years is a long time.

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

Unfortunately, many parts of CA are stuck with PG&E with their rates per kwh range of 32-49 cents with the buyback at 4.8 cents. ****ing ridiculous

---

Man and I'm *****ing about my Texas contract going from 5 cents to probably 15 cents in August. I can't imagine paying 10x for my current usage now. No wonder people want to go green.

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

Unfortunately, many parts of CA are stuck with PG&E with their rates per kwh range of 32-49 cents with the buyback at 4.8 cents. ****ing ridiculous

---

Why should PG&E be forced to buy your power at $0.40 when they can buy it wholesale for under a nickel? With all the solar in California, there are times where the wholesale prices have gone negative and producers who couldn't shed loads had to pay Nevada to take their power.

Those costs are being covered by the people who aren't ripping off their neighbors.

Because I'm providing clean energy instead of coal powered to a company who bribes Scumbag Newsome... With rolling power outages and also responsible for many wild fires.

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Comeby! said:

---

Run that 5 year math by me again? 15% of usage but matching your monthly power bill?

---

Usage plus 15%, so 115% to guarantee you don't underproduce at any point.

---

Ah got it. When I got a proposal they were only able to get 75% of my usage with panels on 100% of my roof which isn't possible.

Shell Energy, who just announced entering the resi retail space, just posted on their website the first solar buy-back plan that gives you the real-time price for the energy you put back to the grid, instead of just crediting back the rate you have contracted with them. This can be better in a summer 2011 or Uri type environment, but worse in a mild summer. Anyway, the rep couldn't answer some basic questions about whether you get the "gen-weighted" average of the real-time 15-min settllement of your positive generation to the grid, or the daily or monthly average, etc. I have a call w/them to find out, but at least the market is evolving.

I'm not so sure on that summer assessment. In those extreme events, even if real time pierces are high you'll likely be using even more. During a winter event that might not be the case if you have gas, but if you have an electric heater it's the same issue. Depending on usage and pricing, could be 6 one way and half a dozen the other.

Cody 91 said:

---

Shell Energy, who just announced entering the resi retail space, just posted on their website the first solar buy-back plan that gives you the real-time price for the energy you put back to the grid, instead of just crediting back the rate you have contracted with them. This can be better in a summer 2011 or Uri type environment, but worse in a mild summer. Anyway, the rep couldn't answer some basic questions about whether you get the "gen-weighted" average of the real-time 15-min settllement of your positive generation to the grid, or the daily or monthly average, etc. I have a call w/them to find out, but at least the market is evolving.

---

my provider was bought by Shell Energy recently, I'll look into this.

Original OP update: They're still making some tweaks on their proposal. Mostly because I don't have a good LTM of power bills since my provider was bought and sold twice last year and EO doesn't have a good bank of bills that I can just pull from.

Also, the recent run-up in energy prices is skewing everything which I'm trying to be cognizant of. I estimate I'm using 15-17k kWh/annually based on the last few months of invoices I could pull. With my new power rate (for the next 9 months), that's going to be about $2,000 or $2,200/year in electricity.

His first proposal showed financing was about $180/month, so a net/net on cash spend per year. They may be able to pull some panels off once the energy usage gets dialed in better... but at this stage, I'm not just looking to swap a bill... and if power goes down in a few years, I'm stuck with a fixed fee cost (financing the panels).

The "buyback" programs vary a lot and luckily I'm in a non-regulated area but it's still something I'll have to shop every year to make the #s work. They also only modeled in .25% of degradation per year since they're using the "best american made panels today".

I dunno, I'm just not sold quite yet. I also think technology will continue to improve and get cheaper. If power does get to 20 or 30c kWh, this makes a ton of sense but could it just as easily drop back down to 6c?