Fedex meltdown

6,242 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by YouBet
Furlock Bones
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https://www.freightwaves.com/news/fedex-withdraws-full-year-guidance-posts-massive-decline-in-units-operating-income/amp

Withdrew guidance after a projected $800mm miss. Worldwide recession picking up steam.
evan_aggie
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European consumers are going to clamp down on spending big time in the coming months.
LOYAL AG
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It's anyone's guess what the rest of this decade holds. The green energy movement has put Europe in a very precarious position this coming winter with their determination to replace reliable energy with unreliable energy that's often a bad fit for the nations that have deployed those solutions. Solar and wind will never work in Germany, for example. The result of those poor decisions is what we're seeing play out now, energy costs are soaring and consumers are being forced to prioritize energy and food over all else. It's going to be a very long winter over there.

I think we're going to see recession in the consumer markets as inflation forces consumers to pull back and explosion in anything related to industrialization, ie commercial construction. China is collapsing and manufacturing is leaving that country at an accelerating pace and all that activity has to find a home. Your targets are other Asian nations like Viet Nam and North America meaning Mexico and the US. That has to happen, there's no other outcome. Recessions don't last forever but the collapse of Chinese manufacturing will define the rest of this decade.


Ag CPA
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The question is how much of this is due to the economy and how much is on FedEx itself, it is not an efficient operation and they have had execution issues in the past. The CEO was saying it is 70 macro/ 30 company but people are thinking it is probably skewed more towards the company.
htxag09
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LOYAL AG said:

It's anyone's guess what the rest of this decade holds. The green energy movement has put Europe in a very precarious position this coming winter with their determination to replace reliable energy with unreliable energy that's often a bad fit for the nations that have deployed those solutions. Solar and wind will never work in Germany, for example. The result of those poor decisions is what we're seeing play out now, energy costs are soaring and consumers are being forced to prioritize energy and food over all else. It's going to be a very long winter over there.

I think we're going to see recession in the consumer markets as inflation forces consumers to pull back and explosion in anything related to industrialization, ie commercial construction. China is collapsing and manufacturing is leaving that country at an accelerating pace and all that activity has to find a home. Your targets are other Asian nations like Viet Nam and North America meaning Mexico and the US. That has to happen, there's no other outcome. Recessions don't last forever but the collapse of Chinese manufacturing will define the rest of this decade.
As someone who works in O&G and is 100% not in favor of most the green new policies, it's far more complicated than this. They aren't necessarily in the situation they are in because of green energy. They're where they are because of reliance on petrostates, specifically Russia. Now, you and I say well diversify and build infrastructure to more petrostates or build that internal infrastructure vs. relying on one petrostate that has historically been a loose cannon, but others see that as more reason to go down the road of green energy. And they aren't necessarily wrong.

If they are able to build that infrastructure, they will have energy independence. And some of these countries don't have the resources to have energy dependence via fossil fuels.

Either way, strides are being made in solar and even battery storage. Green movement isn't going away so they need to learn where that balance is until technological advances are made.
LOYAL AG
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htxag09 said:

LOYAL AG said:

It's anyone's guess what the rest of this decade holds. The green energy movement has put Europe in a very precarious position this coming winter with their determination to replace reliable energy with unreliable energy that's often a bad fit for the nations that have deployed those solutions. Solar and wind will never work in Germany, for example. The result of those poor decisions is what we're seeing play out now, energy costs are soaring and consumers are being forced to prioritize energy and food over all else. It's going to be a very long winter over there.

I think we're going to see recession in the consumer markets as inflation forces consumers to pull back and explosion in anything related to industrialization, ie commercial construction. China is collapsing and manufacturing is leaving that country at an accelerating pace and all that activity has to find a home. Your targets are other Asian nations like Viet Nam and North America meaning Mexico and the US. That has to happen, there's no other outcome. Recessions don't last forever but the collapse of Chinese manufacturing will define the rest of this decade.
As someone who works in O&G and is 100% not in favor of most the green new policies, it's far more complicated than this. They aren't necessarily in the situation they are in because of green energy. They're where they are because of reliance on petrostates, specifically Russia. Now, you and I say well diversify and build infrastructure to more petrostates or build that internal infrastructure vs. relying on one petrostate that has historically been a loose cannon, but others see that as more reason to go down the road of green energy. And they aren't necessarily wrong.

If they are able to build that infrastructure, they will have energy independence. And some of these countries don't have the resources to have energy dependence via fossil fuels.

Either way, strides are being made in solar and even battery storage. Green movement isn't going away so they need to learn where that balance is until technological advances are made.


You're right in that it is a complicated issue and about petro independence not being possible for everyone but that doesn't make green a good idea for those nations. I've read that Germany has spent enough money to generate 200% of their current demand on wind and solar and they get 10% from that investment. Simply put they aren't terribly windy or sunny. We're a long way from solar being viable that far north yet we're seeing huge spending on these technologies, that's the real issue. Green right now looks more like a scam than a viable solution.

If we want a future powered by something other than fossil fuels it's going to have to be nuclear from the current technologies. Wind and solar aren't reliable where people actually live and we don't have the ability to transport that energy to where people do live. Compound that with the fact that the places where we need windmills and solar farms to exist to actually produce energy are also the places where we need to produce food and again those two specifically look like what we get when we empower government to solve a problem instead of relying on markets. Governments are always wrong, nearly 100% of the time.

I stand by the assertion than the force fed green movement is going to cause a lot of pain this winter that didn't need to happen. Yes reliance on Russia for fossil fuels was a terrible decision but replacing them with windmills and solar panels is compounding that decision. Germany and most of Europe needed to be investing in reliable energy it on politically correct energy and they failed spectacularly.
htxag09
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But 200% investing in what? Hydro is down this year because low river flows. For the same reason, nuclear is also down this year. Where they are, they're going to have to rely on Petro states that have risk associated with them, Russia, ME, hopefully Egypt, etc.

I absolutely agree they went way too far in the solar and wind bucket and aren't getting the returns needed. But European counties that took a little more balanced of an approach are in very similar situations.
File5
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Where do you see nuclear being down? Was not aware it was so reliant on water supply, although I realize it requires water for the steam cycle and whatnot. Wonder if what you're seeing is reactor design related, and a reason to move to more closed loop systems.
htxag09
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I was actually just at a conference yesterday and they said in Europe that nuclear was down 12% from the first half of 22 vs 21. Hydro was down 20%. Gas was up 4% which made it the primary source of power in Europe, even with the higher prices.
Bird Poo
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htxag09 said:

I was actually just at a conference yesterday and they said in Europe that nuclear was down 12% from the first half of 22 vs 21. Hydro was down 20%. Gas was up 4% which made it the primary source of power in Europe, even with the higher prices.
I read last week that France alone is starting back up a crap load of reactors that had recently been mothballed, mainly due to the natural gas crisis.
htxag09
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Here's a quick article I found on some of it:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-12/french-nuclear-output-seen-curtailed-as-river-temperatures-rise

Quote:

The hot weather hitting Europe this week is set to reduce power output from France's fleet of nuclear reactors, risking even higher electricity prices as the continent endures its worst energy crunch in decades.

Warm temperatures in the Garonne River mean that production restrictions are likely at the Golfech nuclear plant in the south of the country from Thursday, Electricite de France SA said in a filing with grid operator RTE.


Quote:

The reduction is another blow to EDF, whose 56 reactors -- vital to Europe's power supplies -- are already operating at about half their capacity because of maintenance and checks. The utility has estimated that output this year will be the lowest in more than 30 years, meaning neighboring countries may have to seek alternative sources to keep the lights on.

EDF Expects Nuclear Output Cuts in Summer on Low River Level
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LOYAL AG
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htxag09 said:

But 200% investing in what? Hydro is down this year because low river flows. For the same reason, nuclear is also down this year. Where they are, they're going to have to rely on Petro states that have risk associated with them, Russia, ME, hopefully Egypt, etc.

I absolutely agree they went way too far in the solar and wind bucket and aren't getting the returns needed. But European counties that took a little more balanced of an approach are in very similar situations.


It's my understanding that the 200% was spent on wind and solar which are poor fits for Germany. That's what I was trying to say. Sorry.
topher06
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We could help more, but Pete Buttogieg and the department of transportation has prevented Freeport LNG from returning to service in a timely manner
YouBet
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Ag CPA said:

The question is how much of this is due to the economy and how much is on FedEx itself, it is not an efficient operation and they have had execution issues in the past. The CEO was saying it is 70 macro/ 30 company but people are thinking it is probably skewed more towards the company.
One issue in play here is that they've really only ever raised prices over the last several years. They've become quite expensive for many companies who have relied on FedEx or UPS as their shipper. Shippers are desperate for alternatives to both of them.

They've also recently started dropping accounts that weren't profitable for them and some of these accounts were fairly large revenue accounts (while not being overly profitable).
Bobcat-Ag
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I've had some issues with their service recently, like multiple late deliveries, not having good estimates for deliveries. I think it's possible, that there technology is getting old. UPS does not seem to have the same issues.
YouBet
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Bobcat-Ag said:

I've had some issues with their service recently, like multiple late deliveries, not having good estimates for deliveries. I think it's possible, that there technology is getting old. UPS does not seem to have the same issues.
Have actually heard customers complain about this and think it's a real issue.
DannyDuberstein
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Nuclear is the answer to all of these energy concerns. Maddening to see how many shy away

Have had similar unreliability issues with fedex recently. I do wonder how much is turnover related. The whole operation is a lesson in time and movement efficiency. More turnover introduces bottlenecks, mistakes, and people just behaving less efficiently due to lower experience

So is it the tech being old, or is it the movement/behavior of the personnel being less tight and less predictable?
Dr. Doctor
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If you're pulling water out of the river for cooling, you need a certain temperature to get the cooling.

As the water gets warmer, you can increase flow, to a point, then you can't get any more cooling. The only way to keep the system from overheating is to lower power production.

Technically they could install more water inlet capacity, but then you are limited by the heat exchangers and their ability.

Places like STNP are a little less exposed to these issues, as they have their own water pool to draw from.

~egon
flyingaggie12
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Water temps at STNP gotta be getting high up there during the summer. I haven't really heard of issues with that.

But I agree we need Nuclear bad.
Ag92NGranbury
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File5 said:

Where do you see nuclear being down? Was not aware it was so reliant on water supply, although I realize it requires water for the steam cycle and whatnot. Wonder if what you're seeing is reactor design related, and a reason to move to more closed loop systems.

nuclear plants near us use about 40k acre/ft of water per year... that is A LOT of water for cooling

when they were looking at new ones from hitachi or fujitsu, they would have used 100k/ year and returning 40k for an annual usage of about 60k. the return flow comes in about 3-5 degrees warmer that the intake

i would imagine that in areas that are subject to significant drought, they would have to reduce power to reduce heating and water usage.

Philip J Fry
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Laws of thermodynamics are a *****.
File5
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Yep, having to dig deep for entropy and availability...ha!

Of course now it makes sense ***ushima was where it was, great cooling. To make it completely closed loop you'd have to overcome the same issue other power plants have, getting rid of low availability heated cooling water.

As Celine says, it's all coming back to me...
Animal Eight 84
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flyingaggie12 said:

Water temps at STNP gotta be getting high up there during the summer. I haven't really heard of issues with that.

But I agree we need Nuclear bad.
STP cooling reservoir is sized for 4 units, 7000 acres. Almost 4 miles across it.
Never once had an issue with cooling water temperature.
All man made, like a big stock pond, designed flow channels for power plant cooling.

STP pumps from the Colorado River during high flow periods (rain) to make up for evaporation.
A big pumping station.
Also the owners have senior water right demands on the LCRA lakes but never used them.

Water for the reactor and steam cycle is demineralized water that is reverse osmosis purified well water.
Plant keeps over a million gallons of demineralized makeup water on hand.

Three 10" wells, only one is typically needed.
Very little steam or condensate leakage, that is wasted megawatts.

MaroonStain
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FedEx has always been 2nd to UPS. Observe drivers and deliveries by both when they are working. Brown just gets it done.
YouBet
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What a divergent thread. FedEx on the one hand and nuclear energy on the other.

Thread title checks out though.
tremble
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htxag09 said:

But 200% investing in what? Hydro is down this year because low river flows. For the same reason, nuclear is also down this year. Where they are, they're going to have to rely on Petro states that have risk associated with them, Russia, ME, hopefully Egypt, etc.

I absolutely agree they went way too far in the solar and wind bucket and aren't getting the returns needed. But European counties that took a little more balanced of an approach are in very similar situations.


How is the Europeans doubling down on alternative renewables that require Chinese input any better?
oklaunion
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Ag CPA said:

The question is how much of this is due to the economy and how much is on FedEx itself, it is not an efficient operation and they have had execution issues in the past. The CEO was saying it is 70 macro/ 30 company but people are thinking it is probably skewed more towards the company.
In my opinion, it is a lot on Fedex's operation. When given a choice of my carrier as well as when I ship myself, I choose UPS. I very rarely get the same Fedex driver on this semi-rural route. I feel fortunate when I get a shipment on the day it is "Out for Delivery". Last week a box was due on Friday and never arrived. Late that night someone entered on their system " couldn't find that address". It showed up the next day but the driver said the Friday driver quit halfway thru the route.
I know both UPS drivers we get out here. Seldom anyone but those 2.
AgCPA95
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oklaunion said:

Ag CPA said:

The question is how much of this is due to the economy and how much is on FedEx itself, it is not an efficient operation and they have had execution issues in the past. The CEO was saying it is 70 macro/ 30 company but people are thinking it is probably skewed more towards the company.
In my opinion, it is a lot on Fedex's operation. When given a choice of my carrier as well as when I ship myself, I choose UPS. I very rarely get the same Fedex driver on this semi-rural route. I feel fortunate when I get a shipment on the day it is "Out for Delivery". Last week a box was due on Friday and never arrived. Late that night someone entered on their system " couldn't find that address". It showed up the next day but the driver said the Friday driver quit halfway thru the route.
I know both UPS drivers we get out here. Seldom anyone but those 2.


I know FedEx sells their routes to independent operators. Maybe UPS in houses everything and it works better? We've had our same UPS driver at work out office for probably 10 years. FedEx is random with all kind of different trucks, vans and drivers
Aust Ag
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Seems these carriers activity would be a harbinger of things to come....how are they doing?
ElephantRider
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Germany is almost done shutting down all of their nuclear plants. They went the opposite way.

I work in renewable energy and very much believe that it has a place in our energy mix, but I'm also very pro-nuclear as a baseline source. We can't rely on wind/solar 100%, and batteries aren't going to get where we need them to be as long as they're relying on lithium. Nuclear just makes sense.
YouBet
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Aust Ag said:

Seems these carriers activity would be a harbinger of things to come....how are they doing?


What you are seeing here is a combination of poor economic outlook and many years of price increases by the integrators that have priced out shippers.

The latter is leading to significant disruption in the industry as shippers and retailers look for alternatives to move freight that do not involve FedEx or UPS.
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