Fireman said:

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AggieAL1 said:

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I'm of the belief that BTC has legs and folks should buy it now while it's "down." One of those "have it and not need it vs. need it and not have it" scenarios. It's worth throwing, at the very least, some fun money into it and letting it sit in the event:

a) inflation due to Fed printing money or
b) government cutting off access to your bank accounts
(Both of which have happened in the last two years)

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You kid yourself if you believe that bitcoin as a currency is any less susceptible to inflation than dollars.

As a storage vessel for wealth it is just what it has always been - its value rests on how much someone else is willing to pay - like a van Gogh painting, although not nearly as handsome.

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You do realize the federal reserve can literally print an unlimited amount of dollars, but there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins? The limitation on quantity is what helps bitcoin avoid inflation, similar to your Van Gogh example.

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AggieAL1 said:

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Scarcity of an exchange medium doesn't stop the growth of demand for materials or labor, it just complicates reaction.
Scarcity of an exchange medium does increase the perceived value, or price someone is willing to pay to acquire that exchange medium.

If a worker makes two bitcoins a year to start, who covers any raise he deserves? If OPEC cuts oil output, how does a bitcoin system handle the resulting shortfall without consumers paying more? How are regional bitcoin shortages relieved without a central distributor?
This is a very hyperbolic scenario that assumes folks will be paid in BTC. While that may someday happen en masse, and is happening to some degree with athletes, this scenario is unlikely. That said, "regional bitcoin shortages" are not possible given all you need is access to a phone or the internet to access your funds. Further, in your employee raise scenario, the company paying him is responsible for securing the funds with which to pay them...just like they secure the dollars for your paycheck.

Yes, the Federal Reserve prints large sums of dollars, but it can only distribute them by purchasing existing securities -- of value in themselves. And it is obligated to burn the money when it resells or retires those assets.
The ever-increasing money supply leads me to believe they're not burning or retiring as much as they're printing.

Currency without elasticity and mindful control simply boosts volatility and spreads chaos. It doesn't stop price increases.
I do not believe the Federal Reserve has been demonstrating 'mindful control' of their monetary policy and I believe you can sum up a majority of BTC-fans beliefs with this: The USD is only backed by the full faith and credit of the United States Government and I'm not willing to put my entire financial future in the hands of an unelected few that control the Fed. As such, I'm dabbling in BTC because the potential benefits if we ever reach mass adoption far outweigh the risk of losing the dollars I've used to buy BTC.

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Fireman said:

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AggieAL1 said:

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I'm of the belief that BTC has legs and folks should buy it now while it's "down." One of those "have it and not need it vs. need it and not have it" scenarios. It's worth throwing, at the very least, some fun money into it and letting it sit in the event:

a) inflation due to Fed printing money or
b) government cutting off access to your bank accounts
(Both of which have happened in the last two years)

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You kid yourself if you believe that bitcoin as a currency is any less susceptible to inflation than dollars.

As a storage vessel for wealth it is just what it has always been - its value rests on how much someone else is willing to pay - like a van Gogh painting, although not nearly as handsome.

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You do realize the federal reserve can literally print an unlimited amount of dollars, but there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins? The limitation on quantity is what helps bitcoin avoid inflation, similar to your Van Gogh example.

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Economics says that scarcity dictates value.

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exp said:

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Bitcoin is a deflationary monetary instrument, which is the natural order of things. Technology is innately deflationary. If this seems bizarre to you, read The Price of Tomorrow by Jeff Booth.

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Looking back, it seems to me extraordinary that we should have contemplated having both a nurse and a servant, but they were considered essentials of life in those days, and were the last things we would have thought of dispensing with. To have committed the extravagance of a car, for instance, would never have entered our minds. Only the rich had cars.

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tysker said:

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Economics says that scarcity dictates value.

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Scarcity dictates price.
Price is what pay; value is what you get.

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XpressAg09 said:

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tysker said:

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Yes value is subjective and abstract. But understanding an asset's present value and future value is what makes that asset worth owning. If you only concern yourself with price, you're a speculator.

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All due respect, but this premise seems contradictory.

You admit value is subjective. But then say you need to understand an asset's present and future value. I think the solution here is simple: the pro-BTC camp is buying what they think to be a commodity with high future value at a current lower value price, while the anti-BTC camp sees no future value in the commodity and as such, isn't buying it regardless of current price.

Regarding the speculator comment, it seems that speculators are what caused the shiitcoin craze and rise and fall of the NFT over the past two years. HODLers haven't changed their tune and are unphased by changes in price. They're buying for value. Which is subjective. As such, by buying for value, they're not speculating; they're investing.

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In the short run, the market is a voting [price] machine but in the long run, it is a weighing [value] machine.

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Fireman said:

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AggieAL1 said:

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I'm of the belief that BTC has legs and folks should buy it now while it's "down." One of those "have it and not need it vs. need it and not have it" scenarios. It's worth throwing, at the very least, some fun money into it and letting it sit in the event:

a) inflation due to Fed printing money or
b) government cutting off access to your bank accounts
(Both of which have happened in the last two years)

---

You kid yourself if you believe that bitcoin as a currency is any less susceptible to inflation than dollars.

As a storage vessel for wealth it is just what it has always been - its value rests on how much someone else is willing to pay - like a van Gogh painting, although not nearly as handsome.

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You do realize the federal reserve can literally print an unlimited amount of dollars, but there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins? The limitation on quantity is what helps bitcoin avoid inflation, similar to your Van Gogh example.

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GE said:

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Fireman said:

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AggieAL1 said:

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I'm of the belief that BTC has legs and folks should buy it now while it's "down." One of those "have it and not need it vs. need it and not have it" scenarios. It's worth throwing, at the very least, some fun money into it and letting it sit in the event:

a) inflation due to Fed printing money or
b) government cutting off access to your bank accounts
(Both of which have happened in the last two years)

---

You kid yourself if you believe that bitcoin as a currency is any less susceptible to inflation than dollars.

As a storage vessel for wealth it is just what it has always been - its value rests on how much someone else is willing to pay - like a van Gogh painting, although not nearly as handsome.

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You do realize the federal reserve can literally print an unlimited amount of dollars, but there will only ever be 21 million bitcoins? The limitation on quantity is what helps bitcoin avoid inflation, similar to your Van Gogh example.

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Are bitcoins not divisible infinitely with infrastructure built on top of it?

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