Secure 2.0

2,605 Views | 10 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by P.H. Dexippus
P.H. Dexippus
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I know portions of the legislation have already been discussed in other threads, but I thought a consolidated thread discussing the retirement account impacts would be useful. The 529 to IRA rollover is most helpful from my place in life. Also, we currently have a SIMPLE plan (though likely moving to 401k), so I like the Roth option. I wish they would lighten up on the "nondiscrimination" testing and income limits in general (and cut out all the other pork), but I'll take what I can get.

Quote:


Requiring automatic 401(k) enrollment: Employers would be required to automatically enroll employees in their 401(k) plan at a rate of least 3% but not more than 10%. Businesses with 10 or fewer workers and new companies in business for less than three years are among those that would be excluded from the mandate.

Increasing the age when RMDs would need to start: The current bill would increase it from age 72 to age 73 in 2023 and then to age 75 in 2033. Additionally, the penalty for failing to take RMDs would be reduced to 25%, and in some cases, 10%, from the current 50%.

Creating bigger "catch-up" contributions for older retirement savers: Under current law, you can put an extra $6,500 annually in your 401(k) once you reach age 50. Secure 2.0 would increase the limit to $10,000 (or 50% more than the regular catch-up amount) starting in 2025 for savers ages 60 to 63. Catch-up amounts also would be indexed for inflation. Additionally, all catch-up contributions will be subject to Roth treatment (i.e., not pretax) except for workers who earn $145,000 or less.

Broadening employer 401(k) match options: A proposal would make it easier for employers to make contributions to 401(k) plans on behalf of employees paying student loans instead of saving for retirement.

Improving worker access to emergency savings: One provision would let employees withdraw up to $1,000 from their retirement account for emergency expenses without having to pay the typical 10% tax penalty for early withdrawal if they are under age 59. Companies also could let workers set up an emergency savings account through automatic payroll deductions, with a cap of $2,500.

Increasing part-time workers' access to retirement accounts: The original Secure Act made it so part-time workers who book between 500 and 999 hours for three consecutive years could be eligible for their company's 401(k). Secure 2.0 reduces that to two years. Companies already have been required to grant eligibility to employees who work at least 1,000 hours in a year.

Boosting how much can be put in a qualified longevity annuity contract: Currently, the maximum that can go into a QLAC is either $135,000 or 25% of the value of your retirement accounts, whichever is less. Secure 2.0 eliminates the 25% cap and increases the maximum amount allowed in a QLAC to $200,000.

Creating a federal matching contribution for lower-income retirement savers: An existing tax credit for low- and moderate-income individuals who contribute to retirement accounts would become a limited government-funded matching contribution.

Changing the required minimum distribution rules for Roth 401(k)s: Currently, while Roth IRAs come with no RMDs during the original account owner's life, that's not the case for Roth 401(k)s. Starting in 2024, the pre-death distribution requirement would be eliminated.

Broadening uses for unused college savings money: A provision would allow for tax- and penalty-free rollovers to Roth IRAs from 529 college savings accounts that are at least 15 years old, within limits.
Helping military spouses get access to retirement plans: Secure 2.0 creates tax credits for small businesses that let military spouses enroll right away in their plan and qualify for immediate vesting of any employer matches.

The bill also includes incentives for small businesses to set up retirement savings plans for their workers, encourages individuals to set aside long-term savings and makes it easier for annuities to be an income option for retirees.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/23/secure-2point0-clears-congress-will-bring-changes-to-retirement-system.html

Quote:

Section 601: SIMPLE and SEP Roth IRAs
Currently SIMPLE IRAs and SEP IRAs do not allow for Roth contributions. The bill would change this, allowing for SIMPLE Plans to accept Roth employee contributions. Additionally, the bill would allow SEP IRAs to offer employees the ability to treat SEP contributions as Roth. The SIMPLE and SEP plans would have to decide to offer this feature as it is not automatic. My rating of this provision, which would go into effect in 2023, is positive. This allows employees to get Roth tax treatment inside of SEP and SIMPLE IRAs. This makes sense because there are often starter plans for small companies and for employees not making a lot of income yet. As such, their tax liability might be low at that time and people would benefit more from a Roth account than a tax-deferred account. It also provides better flexibility.

Section 604: Employer Matching can be Roth or Pre-Tax
The bill will allow employers to let participants in 401(k), 403(b), and governmental 457(b) plans to get matching contributions on a Roth basis. It doesn't require plans to offer this but creates it as an option. My rating of this provision, which goes into effect in 2023, is positive. It allows for matching contributions to go into a Roth account. This can make sense for many lower-income employees that don't benefit that much from tax deferral, especially early in their career. Roth tax treatment gives them a better overall tax outcome. Because this is at the direction of the employee, it gives additional savings and tax management flexibility.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiehopkins/2022/12/22/the-secure-20-acts-impact-on-roth-iras/?sh=d7bdfe845170
Boy Named Sue
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Pardon me if this is a dumb question or easy to find the answer to, but would the 529 funds be transferable to the beneficiary, or the custodian? If someone has a cite to the statute I'd be happy to read it over and report back.
P.H. Dexippus
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The owner can change the beneficiary to any family member at any time without penalty, including making themselves the beneficiary.

In my family of two parents and three children, I am thinking this could mean $35k each roth account. But I am not a pro and I doubt there is a definitive article out there yet on this aspect that takes the new legislation into account.

Summary of legislation:
https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Secure%202.0_Section%20by%20Section%20Summary%2012-19-22%20FINAL.pdf

If you prefer some heavier reading, turn to page 2112 "Sec. 126. Special Rules for Certain Distributions from Long-Term Qualified Tuition Programs to Roth IRAs"
https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117hr2617eas2.pdf
P.H. Dexippus
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Wow
Quote:

Sections 103 and 104: Changed Saver's Credit to Saver's Match

The Saver's Credit, for low earners contributing to retirement accounts, is no longer a deduction but a federally funded match into the account. It can be as much as a 50% match on the first $2,000 contributed (so, $1,000 total) and phases out between $20,500-$35,500 ($41,000-$71,000 MFJ). This is one more reason for residentsat least married residentsto contribute to their Roth IRAs. The match has to be repaid to the Treasury if you pull the money out before retirement. Starts in 2027.

https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/secure-act-2-0/

The article above is a more comprehensive sketch of the new legislation.
cjsag94
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P.H. Dexippus said:

The owner can change the beneficiary to any family member at any time without penalty, including making themselves the beneficiary.

In my family of two parents and three children, I am thinking this could mean $35k each roth account. But I am not a pro and I doubt there is a definitive article out there yet on this aspect that takes the new legislation into account.

Summary of legislation:
https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Secure%202.0_Section%20by%20Section%20Summary%2012-19-22%20FINAL.pdf

If you prefer some heavier reading, turn to page 2112 "Sec. 126. Special Rules for Certain Distributions from Long-Term Qualified Tuition Programs to Roth IRAs"
https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117hr2617eas2.pdf
I saw a brief mention in an article that to convert 529 to Roth required the 529 to have been in place for 15 years. It went on to say each change of beneficiary resets that 15 year clock. If that is true, which I'm guessing it is to avoid exactly what you've described, then that $35k opportunity won't exist.

So much talk of simplifying the tax code, but secure 2.0 has created a lot of new nuances to follow.
YouBet
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Quote:

Section 127, Emergency savings accounts linked to individual account plans.

Though individuals can save on their own, far too many fail to do so. According to a report by the Federal Reserve, almost half of Americans would struggle to cover an unexpected $400 expense. Many are forced to tap into their retirement savings. A recent study found that, in the past year, almost 60 percent of retirement account participants who lack emergency savings tapped into their long6 term retirement savings, compared to only 9 percent of those who had at least a month of emergency savings on hand. Separating emergency savings from one's retirement savings account will provide participants a better understanding that one account is for short-term emergency needs and the other is for long-term retirement savings, thus empowering employees to handle unexpected financial shocks without jeopardizing their long-term financial security in retirement through emergency hardship withdrawals.

Section 127 provides employers the option to offer to their non-highly compensated employees pension-linked emergency savings accounts. Employers may automatically opt employees into these accounts at no more than 3 percent of their salary, and the portion of an account attributable to the employee's contribution is capped at $2,500 (or lower as set by the employer). Once the cap is reached, the additional contributions can be directed to the employee's Roth defined contribution plan (if they have one) or stopped until the balance attributable to contributions falls below the cap. Contributions are made on a Roth-like basis and are treated as elective deferrals for purposes of retirement matching contributions with an annual matching cap set at the maximum account balance i.e., $2,500 or lower as set by the plan sponsor. The first four withdrawals from the account each plan year may not be subject to any fees or charges solely on the basis of such withdrawals. At separation from service, employees may take their emergency savings accounts as cash or roll it into their Roth defined contribution plan (if they have one) or IRA.
Livin' that paycheck to paycheck life.

Second bolded is embarrassing. We are now at the point of pointing out how stupid the genpop is in legislation.
P.H. Dexippus
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AG
cjsag94 said:

P.H. Dexippus said:

The owner can change the beneficiary to any family member at any time without penalty, including making themselves the beneficiary.

In my family of two parents and three children, I am thinking this could mean $35k each roth account. But I am not a pro and I doubt there is a definitive article out there yet on this aspect that takes the new legislation into account.

Summary of legislation:
https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Secure%202.0_Section%20by%20Section%20Summary%2012-19-22%20FINAL.pdf

If you prefer some heavier reading, turn to page 2112 "Sec. 126. Special Rules for Certain Distributions from Long-Term Qualified Tuition Programs to Roth IRAs"
https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117hr2617eas2.pdf
I saw a brief mention in an article that to convert 529 to Roth required the 529 to have been in place for 15 years. It went on to say each change of beneficiary resets that 15 year clock. If that is true, which I'm guessing it is to avoid exactly what you've described, then that $35k opportunity won't exist.

So much talk of simplifying the tax code, but secure 2.0 has created a lot of new nuances to follow.

I agree with that interpretation, but what stops me from setting up 5 separate accounts with 5 different beneficiaries? No, I don't plan on going back to school personally, but I could use it as a capped Roth account first, and pass any leftover to that kids or grandkids.
The Chicken Ranch
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I hate making my 401k catch up contributions mandatory Roth. This is punitive and punishes the middle class in their peak earnings age.

Whoever came up with this needs to be beaten to a pulp.
cjsag94
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P.H. Dexippus said:

cjsag94 said:

P.H. Dexippus said:

The owner can change the beneficiary to any family member at any time without penalty, including making themselves the beneficiary.

In my family of two parents and three children, I am thinking this could mean $35k each roth account. But I am not a pro and I doubt there is a definitive article out there yet on this aspect that takes the new legislation into account.

Summary of legislation:
https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Secure%202.0_Section%20by%20Section%20Summary%2012-19-22%20FINAL.pdf

If you prefer some heavier reading, turn to page 2112 "Sec. 126. Special Rules for Certain Distributions from Long-Term Qualified Tuition Programs to Roth IRAs"
https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117hr2617eas2.pdf
I saw a brief mention in an article that to convert 529 to Roth required the 529 to have been in place for 15 years. It went on to say each change of beneficiary resets that 15 year clock. If that is true, which I'm guessing it is to avoid exactly what you've described, then that $35k opportunity won't exist.

So much talk of simplifying the tax code, but secure 2.0 has created a lot of new nuances to follow.

I agree with that interpretation, but what stops me from setting up 5 separate accounts with 5 different beneficiaries? No, I don't plan on going back to school personally, but I could use it as a capped Roth account first, and pass any leftover to that kids or grandkids.


Nothing stops you, just currently requires 15 year advanced planning, with a lifetime cap of $35k.. that you can only rollover the annual contribution each year, and can't roll any contributions you made in previous 5 years (so currently at least 20 years to fully execute on this plan). So it's a long run way for a relatively small addition to a Roth IRA.

It has never really been important who the beneficiary on a 529 is until you need the funds This does create a strategic shift in making this decision early on.
P.H. Dexippus
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I've got 18 years and the wife 23 years until we can take Roth IRA withdrawals tax-free and nearly the same time frame for paying the kids' college expenses so it works for us. For class of '94, obviously not as easy to work around.

Also, I do not see what would keep both parents from setting up 529s that name the other as beneficiaries, thereby doubling amounts that can be contributed. $140k combined distributions is nothing to sneeze at.

We are means-tested out of being able to deduct traditional or contribute to Roth IRAs, and (at least currently) are ineligible for backdoor and mega backdoor contributions without huge conversion penalties, so this change may provide another tax advantaged option.
P.H. Dexippus
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Bump.

I ended up setting up separate 529s for each kid plus one for myself with the idea of a roth rollover in 15 years. Glad to see some others interpret the law the same way.

https://www.putnamwealthmanagement.com/secure-2-0-creates-new-backdoor-roth-opportunity
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