Sweet. We're always looking for doctors so let me know when you're ready to talk.

Keeper of The Spirits said:

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YouBet said:

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Troglodyte said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Keeper of The Spirits said:

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The reason it's taboo in the workplace is because your employer wants to keep your salary as low as possible. When you find out Bob makes 1.15x it's easier to say pay me like Bob or just start doing .85x the work of Bob.

It also destroys the myth of the meritocracy when you see the bosses favorite pets making more than top contributors

Always and without hesitation discuss salary with your coworkers

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Your boss doesn't want to keep your salary as low as possible. He wants to keep everyone's salary low as possible. But he's having to have that conversation with every single person in the company, while you are having it with one. So the odds are always on your side to negotiate higher.

Bosses usually don't pay people more because they like them better. They pay them more because they can negotiate better. Whether you consider that to be part of a meritocracy (I would argue your ability to negotiate better than others DOES make you a more valuable employee), is up to you.

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Y'all must have some horrible bosses. I think most bosses want to pay their best people the highest salary. Many bosses have some sort of raise restrictions, budgets or something that keeps them from going to bat for every employee every year. Most have to pick their spots.

Yes, having good negotiation skills help in getting raises. However, I would always watch out for my super stars. If I had a great negotiator trying to make as much or more of a super star, I either had to get my star more money too OR not go to bat for the good negotiator.

If you are a boss that is too weak to make sure your great employees (especially if they are easy to negotiate salaries with) are better compensated than your average employees, you shouldn't be the boss.

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I was going to add that a bosses ability to give a raise is directly proportional to the power of the HR department and they are often zero sum games. As a leader, I always wanted to get my top performers the most salary I could in any given year, but we were extremely limited on how much we could give out. I was never one to want to keep my salaries as low as possible.

In my case, the job role had to stay within a reasonable deviation of their peers (if there were any) and we had an overall budget spread across the entire department that was allocated for raises. I could have a worker ask me for a 10% raise which maybe they deserved, but I might only be able to get them 5%. So they either had to be ok with that, or if they weren't, then they could always walk and go find another job.

Nothing I could do about it.

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If you are subject to HR's limits then you aren't the boss. You are just another cog in the machine.

Knowing others salary's + bands allows you to negotiate stronger. In our business the only way to negotiate is to get another offer or leave. Once the work is signed up it's hard to bring it with you.

In general, we have a raise potential of up to 25% within a band and bonus potential of up to 25% not subject to any banding. If you are the top of your band you get bigger bonuses. The numbers are set based on your forced bell curve year end rating. Top rating gets x, middle y, basic c (6-10% raise), below basic get's fired. I have almost always been x or y.

If you were hired in from an external organization you likely make 25% more homegrown until you move up a band, then it even's back out. There isn't a lot of flexibility in the system so 20 people's measurable may all be the same so the boss has to decide which of those 20 get the bigger numbers.

In addition to salary numbers performance evaluations should also be public, so you can see you who should aspire to be like to make the most. I am not unhappy to find out someone makes more, but it does allow me to level set. Do I bust my hump harder even though Bob doesn't and get more? Do I leave and go to a competitor and get my 25% now knowing I'll get leveled out eventually? At the higher bands its much more objective as project margin and revenue are more measurable.

I am working until I have a certain amount of mailbox money, then I am out of the working game. My goal is to make as much money as soon as possible to give myself that freedom.

I'll still work but in things that don't require me to make a certain amount to support my life, wife and kids.


Bands are:

50-80
80-120
120-200
200-350
450-550
550-1.25 (Rumors of north of 1.25, I saw one guy make 1.5 one year and his margin dollars was over 100M)

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That's a bit of throwaway and irrelevant comment. My point is many companies are beholden to this process and no one is the boss according to your definition. Anyone in these organizations are a cog in the machine. At my old company, the only people not beholden to this process are EVPs which means about 4 people plus the CEO over thousands of people.

Im no longer beholden to that system though because I left it.

Diggity said:

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62strat said:

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ThrowAwayAccount1973 said:

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Don't want to use my reg account b/c people will think I am making things up, bragging, get their feelings hurt.

Doc x 20 yrs in practice
Yr 1 -400K working 32 hrs/wk
Yr 15 - 600K working 32hrs/wk
Yr 18-20 - 1.5M working 18hrs/wk. I could make 2M if I wanted to work a 40 hr wk. If I stopped working completely would make 1M/yr. I own my practice with other docs working for me.

Rental net income past 5 yrs between 1-300K. But I typically put the $$$ back to improve the homes or buy new homes so doesn't contribute to cash flow. Other RE investment pulls in 100K/yr that I put back to expand this niche.

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Curious if your net worth is above or below the rule of thumb of (assuming early-mid 50s), 5-6x salary, so $7.5m-$9m.

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I don't think that rule of thumb means a whole bunch when you have a business spitting off $1M/year.

Even at zero savings, He could likely sell that practice to PE today for a nice multiple and live off that.

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a person used to making a few hundred K year could certainly live off it.

But he makes 1.5m a year. It's all relative. If he still lives in his first $250k house and doesn't own a plane (or used to plane share lifestyle) or a big ass boat, then yeh he's probably good

The point of the comment was to agree with you, the boss (those who tell HR what's up and the shareholders of public) want to pay employees the least amount possible. Most people below that want to reward their teams but can't but their resources are limited

Keeper of The Spirits said:

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The point of the comment was to agree with you, the boss (those who tell HR what's up and the shareholders of public) want to pay employees the least amount possible. Most people below that want to reward their teams but can't but their resources are limited

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Pinochet said:

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62strat said:

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Diggity said:

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62strat said:

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ThrowAwayAccount1973 said:

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Don't want to use my reg account b/c people will think I am making things up, bragging, get their feelings hurt.

Doc x 20 yrs in practice
Yr 1 -400K working 32 hrs/wk
Yr 15 - 600K working 32hrs/wk
Yr 18-20 - 1.5M working 18hrs/wk. I could make 2M if I wanted to work a 40 hr wk. If I stopped working completely would make 1M/yr. I own my practice with other docs working for me.

Rental net income past 5 yrs between 1-300K. But I typically put the $$$ back to improve the homes or buy new homes so doesn't contribute to cash flow. Other RE investment pulls in 100K/yr that I put back to expand this niche.

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Curious if your net worth is above or below the rule of thumb of (assuming early-mid 50s), 5-6x salary, so $7.5m-$9m.

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I don't think that rule of thumb means a whole bunch when you have a business spitting off $1M/year.

Even at zero savings, He could likely sell that practice to PE today for a nice multiple and live off that.

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a person used to making a few hundred K year could certainly live off it.

But he makes 1.5m a year. It's all relative. If he still lives in his first $250k house and doesn't own a plane (or used to plane share lifestyle) or a big ass boat, then yeh he's probably good

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Planes don't have to be that expensive. They can be less than a nice car.

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yeh I meant a jet/jet share. Not a two seater prop.

EliteZags said:

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without posting specific numbers, now that most job postings require salary range info included I'm surprised to see how low mid level mgmt are paid. Specifically in my industry med device the postings I'm seeing for engineering manager/Sr Mgr at large companies mostly all have ranges of which mine falls near the median as just a Staff level engineer at a small startup, and having worked at a few before suspect my bonus % is likely at least double what they're offering, plus a sizeable qty of equity hopefully valued 6-figures+ within a few years or sooner upon an acquisition.
just interesting to know I may be out-earning my previous managers just by going to a smaller company

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Just a point of caution on the bolded. It is not uncommon for employee equity to be near worthless on change of control. At minimum all outside money should expect to be paid back in full and possibly at a multiple of the amount invested before any payouts to common unless the payout post-conversion would be greater than the liquidation preference.

Thanks. I checked and didn't see any identifying info esp not my real username but sure I could be missing something. A good lesson that someone can always figure things out on the internet.

Income fluctuates 500-800k per year. Would prefer sub 400 income. Own business.

Net worth is around 20 million, with a balance between equity, cash, stocks/bonds and real estate. Early 50s and looking for next move to unwind.

No debt except for one loan less than 1% rate.

Taxes are my biggest nemesis. We get taxed on everything! Large income prevents things that are available to others such as grants and college scholarships for kids.

jh0400 said:

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EliteZags said:

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without posting specific numbers, now that most job postings require salary range info included I'm surprised to see how low mid level mgmt are paid. Specifically in my industry med device the postings I'm seeing for engineering manager/Sr Mgr at large companies mostly all have ranges of which mine falls near the median as just a Staff level engineer at a small startup, and having worked at a few before suspect my bonus % is likely at least double what they're offering, plus a sizeable qty of equity hopefully valued 6-figures+ within a few years or sooner upon an acquisition.
just interesting to know I may be out-earning my previous managers just by going to a smaller company

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Just a point of caution on the bolded. It is not uncommon for employee equity to be near worthless on change of control. At minimum all outside money should expect to be paid back in full and possibly at a multiple of the amount invested before any payouts to common unless the payout post-conversion would be greater than the liquidation preference.

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I'm not familiar enough with standard outcomes of general industry acquisitions to know what to typically expect equity valuation-wise, just speaking from my experience specifically with startups developing a novel surgical device through regulatory approvals/commercialization- I was previously with another startup under the same investment fund group which was acquired by a huge company, stock options paid out at $4.xx-$0.09/share at the time ~40-50 employees, I had mid five figures qty of shares so nothing life changing.
The group funds several other such startups that have gone through similar transitions, I joined the current one at <a dozen employees and got a lot more equity to start, 4 years to fully vest unless we get bought out then it all gets paid out after, seems no one would mind that scenario which could happen leading up to projected FDA approval in the next year or 2

Diggity said:

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Sweet. We're always looking for doctors so let me know when you're ready to talk.

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in what capacity?

According to thread, it looks like I'm making about $880k in total comp per year.

Killing it!

AgOutsideAustin said:

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How come the TAMU graduate making 50K a year with no retirement and no benefits doesn't ever start these threads ??

Texags delivers !!

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I guess I technically have retirement and benefits.

texAZtea said:

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AgOutsideAustin said:

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How come the TAMU graduate making 50K a year with no retirement and no benefits doesn't ever start these threads ??

Texags delivers !!

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I guess I technically have retirement and benefits.

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Sure you do we all do cuz we're on Texags !!

Nobody is average , below average , or is struggling with money around here…..

This thread sucks. Not enough humble brags and lolpoors.

fka ftc said:

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Premium said:

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If you're on payroll you pay payroll taxes including Social Security. If you take it as an owners distribution that tax is avoided. It's why the IRS says you must pay yourself a reasonable salary. If you're an owner of a business and don't really work in the business, it's better to take a distribution than be on payroll. But that's where the reasonableness comes in, if you're acting as CEO you can't pay yourself $60,000 unless that's normal for your industry. If you come in once a month to review the books as a board member would, you could be on payroll for something much less than a CEO salary.

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If you are a passive owner, then if you meet other requirements you may be able to treat all income as capital gains and avoid payroll taxes.

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Do tell about treating all income as capital gains.

Phat32 said:

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This thread sucks. Not enough humble brags and lolpoors.

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I joined in only because my job doesn't pay me much and i am proud of my extracurriculars. Being a not so highly paid senior manager / exec is not something i am going to shy away from talking about.


Those that get paid high salaries will never share it b/c this board isnt so easy to hide from real life.

Stay at home dad. Eleventh billion.

Do people really still have annual incomes with only 1 comma? How do they survive?!?

Yeah 4am insomnia and that went right over my head. Forget everyone on here are millionaires!

htxag09 said:

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62strat said:

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ktownag08 said:

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JohnLA762 said:

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Do people really still have annual incomes with only 1 comma? How do they survive?!?

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Median household income in the US is around 70k so absolutely. Easy to forget only ~1/3 or so of the adult population in the US has a college degree which typically enables higher earnings. So while many of us are surrounded by generally successful people, there's still many many more just barely getting by.

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I think the comment was made in jest. No one actually thinks that every person in America is making $1m or more, that's just the Texags joke.

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I guess the new Texags joke is it appears a lot of people don't know what a comma is

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or that 6 figures means two commas lol.

My favorites are the posters who post that they are at the top of their career incomes, but somehow their net worth exceeds 60X the high end of their savings rate today

We must have some magical Warren Buffet investors, or a hell of a lot of trust fund kids.

I know the median household income was 70k a couple years ago but with all the increases in wages I wouldn't be surprised if its up to 80k.