Securities-based line of credit

1,461 Views | 10 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by I bleed maroon
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
My dad is having elective (but needed) surgery that is not covered by insurance and needs to be paid up front. Because he is low-income, I and other family members will be helping him pay the bill.

Because I'm not cash heavy at the moment, but have plenty in my brokerage, I see an option for a securities-based line of credit, using my stock holdings as collateral.

Before contacting Schwab, figured I'd post here to see if anyone has used this before (with Schwab or any other bank)? Is this my best way forward? Really only interested if this is going to get me a considerably lower interest rate than a standard loan.

I looked at my rates on Wells Fargo, and even with my excellent credit, best I can get there is ~7.7% APR. (12-24 months)
I bleed maroon
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I did a Schwab Pledged Asset Line (they call it a PAL) account several years ago to buy a plot of ranch land. The interest rate was excellent (less than 4%, as I recall?), which made me decide on this vs. a home equity loan or some other method. I intended to pay it back within a year or two, so it made sense (I did end up paying it off over 4 quarters). Keeping my money at work in the market ended up being a great move, as my returns roughly covered the interest charges, either via income or capital gains (most of this was because in 2021, even a blind squirrel could have found this acorn).

Be prepared for some issues that you may not have considered:

1) You have to open a new account, and transfer some multiple of what you want to borrow (as they have a maintenance type factor, and some securities are not lendable (including SCHW, ironically). No big deal, but it takes time, and if you're an active trader, you are out of the market for several days or so.

2) Some of the non-cost basis data you have will be lost during the transition. And if you transfer it back later, you still will not regain all your transaction data. Once again, no big deal, but kind of frustrating when you want to look back at historical data.

3) Your account will be more limited as to types of trading you can do - no more exotic options strategies, and each trade has to be approved as "lendable", or else it subtracts from the credit line available (or is disallowed, period, as I recall). This was my main reason for wanting to close the PAL as early as possible.

4) They have a separate help desk to call for issues, which at the time was understaffed and had long long wait times. The main Schwab desk can't really help you, even if they're dually licensed with Schwab Bank, as it's considered a specialty bank account.

5) I seem to recall some issues getting the securities transferred back into the old account once I had paid off the loan, but I don't remember if there was anything major.

I don't regret using it, financially, but operationally, be prepared for some frustrations. If I needed the money longer, I might have taken several more years to pay it off, but given the bouncy market since then, I'm probably better off doing it the way I did it.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Great info. Thanks.
I bleed maroon
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Good luck! I'd also be curious what the current interest rates are, so let us know, if you get a chance. I'm thinking it may be graded based on size of credit line created, or account value?
mosdefn14
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Your rate is likely going to be a 6, 7, or 8 ish and floating. They're generally BSBY+ spread.

Spreads are determined by total relationship size and line (not draw) size.
TexAggie5432
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I have one for emergencies. Doesn't hurt to have one.

You never know what might come up.
cgh1999
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mosdefn14 said:

Your rate is likely going to be a 6, 7, or 8 ish and floating. They're generally BSBY+ spread.

Spreads are determined by total relationship size and line (not draw) size.

8% is much cheaper than paying capital gains. I have used mine for opportunistic investments when I need to raise cash quickly. As my cash grows (through normal salary or investment return) I pay the line down and reload for the next opportunity.
permabull
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It's basically just a margin loan

Recently they have been a good idea for legacy planning. As mentioned above you pay be interest instead of capital gains. If you have assets that have appreciated a lot, later in life it might make more sense to use this type of loan so the assets continue to grow and you don't have to pay the capital gains tax to get into the equity. The plan would be for you to die without ever cashing in the stock so your heirs get the step up in cost basis and thus you never have to pay capital gains on the appreciation.
cgh1999
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hypeiv said:

It's basically just a margin loan

Recently they have been a good idea for legacy planning. As mentioned above you pay be interest instead of capital gains. If you have assets that have appreciated a lot, later in life it might make more sense to use this type of loan so the assets continue to grow and you don't have to pay the capital gains tax to get into the equity. The plan would be for you to die without ever cashing in the stock so your heirs get the step up in cost basis and thus you never have to pay capital gains on the appreciation.

I was initially thinking of it as 8% vs 15% ST cap gains. But agree wholeheartedly. If I never sell stocks like apple and can gift that on a stepped up basis, that would be huge.
62strat
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my dad is in the process of doing this to buy a house. he doesn't want to sell his current home which is paid off, but on the other hand, wants to be a cash offer with no sale contingency.

His fidelity can cover cost of new house, so that's how he's going to do it. As someone mentioned, it's a margin loan. he has no issues with paying a handful of months of 5-7% interest. That small price allows him to find a house to buy first, have the cash to do so without a contingent offer, and then list his house. When it sells, he pays off his loan.
I bleed maroon
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62strat said:

my dad is in the process of doing this to buy a house. he doesn't want to sell his current home which is paid off, but on the other hand, wants to be a cash offer with no sale contingency.

His fidelity can cover cost of new house, so that's how he's going to do it. As someone mentioned, it's a margin loan. he has no issues with paying a handful of months of 5-7% interest. That small price allows him to find a house to buy first, have the cash to do so without a contingent offer, and then list his house. When it sells, he pays off his loan.

Seems like a very good approach for that situation. Probably better rates and lower frictional costs than a bridge loan or other home equity loan or LOC method.

It is not a margin loan, however. It works similarly, but is a completely separate new account (margin accounts are a feature of a primary investment account, and are governed as a component of the primary account). The securities are physically transferred to a totally new account, which I think is technically a bank loan account with limited investment capability.

The maintenance reserve is much like a margin loan, and you can only borrow 50-60% of the investment value (from my memory). You can also get a maintenance reserve call (similar to a margin call) where if your investment value decreases enough, you can be forced to liquidate shares or infuse more cash. It's not a method for the extremely conservative investor, but makes sense in some situations.
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