I think it has great utility, but I won't try to argue with you, as you obviously have your mind made up. I was just interested in the speculative portion of your post, and curious at what price you would consider it not speculative. I'm assuming you think it's fool hardy to allocate 401k dollars to it?

I'll be the first to admit I don't understand where value is created from bitcoin. Therefore, 2.5 years ago, I invested in COIN, based on the Randolph and Mortimer Duke philosophy.



30 months later, I have recovered to within 15% of my initial COIN investment (was down 70%+ at one point), even with the recent massive runup. On the flipside, a couple years ago, Venmo gave me $10 in free bitcoin for signing up for their crypto service, and it's up 30% since the gift. Crypto is not foolproof, and has significant risks not present in other asset classes.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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I think it has great utility, but I won't try to argue with you, as you obviously have your mind made up. I was just interested in the speculative portion of your post, and curious at what price you would consider it not speculative. I'm assuming you think it's fool hardy to allocate 401k dollars to it?

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You can feel free to speak to the utility of it. I'd be interested.

I'm not 100% against BTC, but not sure I'd allocate a very large percentage of my retirement savings to it. If you wanted to allocate 1-5% I don't see any issue in that as a speculative play. But how are you buying BTC in a 401k? I would imagine in that case you aren't buying actual BTC but an etf, miner, etc.? How is that not speculative? There is zero actual BTC in your account for utilization, just an index/miner that tracks the price of BTC. I'm pretty sure the whole reason for BTC, according to those acquiring it, is as an alternative to traditional currency. Not much use there in this instance within your retirement accounts if the only way to recognize gains of that asset is to cash it out in USD.

Pepper Brooks said:

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For legal business transactions in the US, I agree it's not currently practical due to the regulatory environment. For P2P, it's arguably as easy, if not easier, than Venmo.

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Assuming the Buyer/Seller are comfortable with the risk that the BTC exchanged in that transaction may be worth much more/less in a very short period of time. You're still having to base that value against a currency, like the USD, and we've seen the price volatility of BTC against the USD.

Sure. That goes back to my comment about people's mindsets being the road block. The utility/ability to do the transaction is there regardless.

txaggie_08 said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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I think it has great utility, but I won't try to argue with you, as you obviously have your mind made up. I was just interested in the speculative portion of your post, and curious at what price you would consider it not speculative. I'm assuming you think it's fool hardy to allocate 401k dollars to it?

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You can feel free to speak to the utility of it. I'd be interested.

I'm not 100% against BTC, but not sure I'd allocate a very large percentage of my retirement savings to it. If you wanted to allocate 1-5% I don't see any issue in that as a speculative play. But how are you buying BTC in a 401k? I would imagine in that case you aren't buying actual BTC but an etf, miner, etc.? How is that not speculative? There is zero actual BTC in your account for utilization, just an index/miner that tracks the price of BTC. I'm pretty sure the whole reason for BTC, according to those acquiring it, is as an alternative to traditional currency. Not much use there in this instance within your retirement accounts if the only way to recognize gains of that asset is to cash it out in USD.

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You are correct, I was referring to the ETFs that are now available. And FTR, I am much more bullish on it as a store of value than a currency that we will all be individually be using one day. But from the perspective of a currency, it does fulfill all of the requirements of one (durability, portability, divisibility, uniformity, limited supply, and acceptability). Those traits are why it will always have value. From a utility standpoint, besides a store of value, I don't know if we will ever be trading sats for groceries, but I do think there is incredible value for countries who choose to settle foreign transactions with an asset like Bitcoin that is external to each country's individual currency.

$60?

bmks270 said:

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Pepper Brooks said:

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Which existing payment rail includes instant settlement?
Separately, the fee structure is more competitive than visa.

I'm not going to argue the merits of it being better money again. I'm pretty sure you and I have already had that discussion.

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Credit cards work fine, are fast and cheap. No need to go through the block chain.
Credit cards also have extra protections for the user.

For large transfers a wire is actually cheaper and maybe even faster than Bitcoin.

If your activity's are not sanctioned by government or banks, then yes Bitcoin has utility. It's my belief that this is blockchain currencies only distinct offering of value. And it doesn't have to be Bitcoin.

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I do believe that a specific benefit to Bitcoin is simply the fixed supply. There will only ever be 21 Million Bitcoin ever in all the universe ever. There is truly a value in a commodity(even if it's just an exchange medium) that cannot be inflated or manipulated to the benefit of the mint's government and is in fact deflationary by design. I do use it as a dollar hedge because given the choice it ought to be a no-brainer to select the deflationary one over the inflationary free floater. I also have extreme faith that our government will never be able to reign in it's own spending so it will continue to devalue the dollar until it is no longer the world reserve.

Also the biggest holders of Bitcoin only have a fraction of the total supply, so even if they dump or try to corner the market there's only so much damage they can do to it. The cat is out of the bag from a legal standpoint, and it's market cap is rising to the top of all commodities. In addition to all of this the ETF demand is around 10X the current supply.

Everyone in the upcoming generation will want bitcoin. Your kids and grand kids will ask why didn't you secure any for me? You'll say IT SpEcUlAtIvE still

Good news. I had no idea. I bought (I think) $7k worth of BTC with my free govt COVID money. It was around $60k at the time. If I can figure out how to get logged into my coin base account I can see how much I'm up now. Lol at this thing.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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I for one can't wait for Bitcoin treasure hunters. I'm imagining Indiana Jones with a neck beard.

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If you can guess well, all bitcoin is free for the taking.