How would you handle?

Have someone in a marketing role in our small business that has just been collecting a paycheck. Combination of not doing anything to move us forward, that we'd probably be more efficient going back to just splitting her duties between the two team members that used to handle them, not making an effort to plug in with the great "culture" shared by every other team member, and enough mistakes (recently a big one) that I just can't keep being the nice guy. (She's been here about six months.)

I've been having these thoughts for months really and discussed with my partner multiple times. He's onboard. I could have (should have) let her go months ago. Problem is, I'm leaving town Sunday and won't be back until the following week.

Do I let her collect a paycheck for another week (the paycheck isn't as big a deal to me as just the idea of letting her hang around longer than any of us want her here) and keep our company less efficient with her here, just so that I'm able to fire her in person?

TheOC16 said:

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How would you handle?

Have someone in a marketing role in our small business that has just been collecting a paycheck. Combination of not doing anything to move us forward, that we'd probably be more efficient going back to just splitting her duties between the two team members that used to handle them, not making an effort to plug in with the great "culture" shared by every other team member, and enough mistakes (recently a big one) that I just can't keep being the nice guy. (She's been here about six months.)

I've been having these thoughts for months really and discussed with my partner multiple times. He's onboard. I could have (should have) let her go months ago. Problem is, I'm leaving town Sunday and won't be back until the following week.

Do I let her collect a paycheck for another week (the paycheck isn't as big a deal to me as just the idea of letting her hang around longer than any of us want her here) and keep our company less efficient with her here, just so that I'm able to fire her in person?

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Does President Trump personally fire every USG employee -

or send out an email and letter to them?

Captain Winky said:

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Well I doubt Trump does any of that but your analogy is incredibly silly.

If you were too lazy to fire the employee months ago then what difference does another week make?

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Lazy is not the right diagnoses in this case, but it's not worth complaining because the cause for issue is still my mistake. At least the cause in my case is something I can learn from, whereas I think laziness is most often an inherent trait that rarely improves.

agdaddy04 said:

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You should do it in person no matter what. On another note, will the employee be surprised?

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Always a great question

agdaddy04 said:

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You should do it in person no matter what. On another note, will the employee be surprised?

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Most people someway find a way to be surprised.

Literally I've had people where we have put them on a strike plan and used the words "if this doesn't get corrected in the next 30 days you'll be terminated" and they were still shocked.

Is there a manager that can do it? If not, wait.

I could have written the OP a couple of weeks ago. I'd do it sooner rather than later, but you need to do it in person if the person is your direct report.

Since this is small business and you hired her then you need to take her out. I would have fired her before you left for vacation, but that's just me. Also easy for me to say as I've been in this same situation and procrastinated in a similar situation.

I got fired from a job while away on a company training meeting. I was called out of a meeting for a phone call and the manager told me I was fired. Then went back into the meeting and announced what happened and the room was shocked.

By the way, the manager was a tu grad.

Wait another week. Do it the right way. Have a witness.

Also make sure you understand if she's a protected class. Make sure you think it through and be prepared to offer severance in exchange for a release.

Captain Winky said:

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Well I doubt Trump does any of that but your analogy is incredibly silly.

If you were too lazy to fire the employee months ago then what difference does another week make?

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This.
And want to add...
Be humane with everyone. They have feelings too, whether they are competent or not.

TexasAggie73 said:

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I got fired from a job while away on a company training meeting. I was called out of a meeting for a phone call and the manager told me I was fired. Then went back into the meeting and announced what happened and the room was shocked.

By the way, the manager was a tu grad.

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WTF that was terrible.

My boss where I was 10 years ago had gone to a university to talk about the company for hiring. She was called and told she was laid off. (I had been laid off 6 months earlier)

Pull the plug sooner rather than later. Unproductive employees are toxic, and can set new low standards across the company when others realize they are not being held accountable, so why ahould they do more? The other good employees can either become resentful or just slow their pace too.

Once you terminate their employment, the rest will know that **** won't fly around here.

Edit: Also, id do it in person. Especially in a smaller company.

Cyprian said:

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Pull the plug sooner rather than later. Unproductive employees are toxic, and can set new low standards across the company when others realize they are not being held accountable, so why ahould they do more? The other good employees can either become resentful or just slow their pace too.

Once you terminate their employment, the rest will know that **** won't fly around here.

Edit: Also, id do it in person. Especially in a smaller company.

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Yep, this is exactly why.

We gave her time hoping that it was a 'knowledge of our industry' issue. But overtime it's become apparent that it's just a lack of drive to do anything other than collect a paycheck.

bagger05 said:

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agdaddy04 said:

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You should do it in person no matter what. On another note, will the employee be surprised?

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Most people someway find a way to be surprised.

Literally I've had people where we have put them on a strike plan and used the words "if this doesn't get corrected in the next 30 days you'll be terminated" and they were still shocked.

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That's typically because what they believe they are doing, what you believe they aren't doing often don't match what those around them believe is happening. Kinda the 3 sides to every story scenario.

My favorite are companies or managers that keep having this issue and have no ability to believe they might not be part of the issue. It's also how we got annoying process like being required to have HR there when those kind of last ultimatum meetings take place. To ensure the message being sent actually matches what they believe they are communicating.

TheOC16 said:

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Cyprian said:

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Pull the plug sooner rather than later. Unproductive employees are toxic, and can set new low standards across the company when others realize they are not being held accountable, so why ahould they do more? The other good employees can either become resentful or just slow their pace too.

Once you terminate their employment, the rest will know that **** won't fly around here.

Edit: Also, id do it in person. Especially in a smaller company.

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Yep, this is exactly why.

We gave her time hoping that it was a 'knowledge of our industry' issue. But overtime it's become apparent that it's just a lack of drive to do anything other than collect a paycheck.

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FYI.

Neither having a "partner" with the ability to act as one nor ownership's ability think this through in the weeks before going out of town look good here. As has been mentioned before by several posts. Add on that the part of you expecting someone else not within ownership to handle your mess isn't going to help. All will have more impact on how you are perceived by your employees than her collecting another week's salary because you couldn't plan / handle this correctly. None of these actions give the perception of management that are successfully managing a business that also allows your employees to provide for their families.

I'd probably figure the cause of that out first as it's more than likely much more impactful to your business than a lower level employees week of pay. Because you're just as likely to lose good employees you'd prefer to keep more than you need to fire this person if you can't get things together.

AgLA06 said:

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bagger05 said:

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agdaddy04 said:

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You should do it in person no matter what. On another note, will the employee be surprised?

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Most people someway find a way to be surprised.

Literally I've had people where we have put them on a strike plan and used the words "if this doesn't get corrected in the next 30 days you'll be terminated" and they were still shocked.

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That's typically because what they believe they are doing, what you believe they aren't doing often don't match what those around them believe is happening. Kinda the 3 sides to every story scenario.

My favorite are companies or managers that keep having this issue and have no ability to believe they might not be part of the issue. It's also how we got annoying process like being required to have HR there when those kind of last ultimatum meetings take place. To ensure the message being sent actually matches what they believe they are communicating.

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"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it's taken place."
-- George Bernard Shaw

Not sure how other companies do it, but before you get to the strike plan (other companies call it a PIP or something else), there's been a lot of failed communication.

Best advice I ever got about this was that when someone screws up, they don't get in trouble. You talk to them, you coach, you work with them. Then if they screw up again, you talk to them, you coach, you work with them.

This cycle continues until you reach this magical point called "you're done." Where that point is depends on so many different factors that there's not a lot of point in trying to codify it. We coach the managers of course (including being patient, assume you're the problem, understand you'll have to tell people seven times before they get it, etc), but when you get to that point that "you're done" you know.

That's when the strike plan kicks in, and the language from then on is unambiguous. You've gotta use the words "you will be terminated" and you have to do it in writing. Like I said it still surprises people but there's only so much you can do.

Yeah man management is hard.

Principles are all very simple but execution is VERY difficult.

Personally, I lack the gift. Don't know that I was ever completely terrible but I'm pretty sure I was never good.

I have so much respect for people who are good at it. If you are lucky enough to have a great one on your team do whatever you can to hang onto them. No better leverage than great managers.

AgLA06 said:

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FYI.

Neither having a "partner" with the ability to act as one nor ownership's ability think this through in the weeks before going out of town look good here. As has been mentioned before by several posts. Add on that the part of you expecting someone else not within ownership to handle your mess isn't going to help. All will have more impact on how you are perceived by your employees than her collecting another week's salary because you couldn't plan / handle this correctly. None of these actions give the perception of management that are successfully managing a business that also allows your employees to provide for their families.

I'd probably figure the cause of that out first as it's more than likely much more impactful to your business than a lower level employees week of pay. Because you're just as likely to lose good employees you'd prefer to keep more than you need to fire this person if you can't get things together.

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Is he firing you?

Nope. I manage my own portfolio of companies. And I wouldn't consider going out of town and asking one of my employees to handle something like this.

Comeby! said:

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Enough of the hypotheticals, what happened? Whaaa Happaaa?

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We'll never know. I thought I found the employee for a second there.