Beging manufacturing back

3,412 Views | 38 Replies | Last: 8 mo ago by Pinochet
bigtruckguy3500
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jamey said:

bigtruckguy3500 said:

So, kind of related to this and labor force. It would be possible if we fixed immigration. Lots of countries have ways for immigrants to come to the US to provide cheap labor, but Congress has refused to fix it for decades.





I've long thought this is just because a simple open boarder has allowed labor to walk in when we got jobs and go back when we dont

I mentioned here or elsewhere, I can't remember but I once worked in a low wage labor industry. We had plants around the nation and while I was very strict in my plant, illegals come and go as they please going back many decades with the job flow and no bureaucracy.
Yeah, I heard this was the case a long time ago. Granted it was from a YouTube video arguing for immigration reform, but it basicaly premised what you said - back in the day, Mexicans (or others) would just come, work, and go back as needed. Sometimes they'd just come for a few months to earn some extra money then go back. However, perhaps in the 90s or 80's, we got strict on immigration. And so they basically were stuck on this side of the border if they invested so much time and money sneaking in.

Perhaps it's more complicated than I can understand, but I see no reason why we can't figure a way to create work visas easier for people willing to actually do the work. And then, they could even pay taxes.
jamey
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AG
Even in the early 2000s they would come work for a few years to save money and go back home for a while to spend time with their families till the money runs out. Rense and repeat. They'd even go back to the same manufacturing facilities upon their return. Everything about the system not only allowed but encouraged it.

I moved into high tech manufacturing in 2009 so I don't know how it worked after that but it doesn't appear to have changed much based on the numbers coming here

I have no problem finding a simple efficient solution, thru visas or whatever. These are good hard working people for the most part who actually come here to work. They're very family oriented...etc. They just don't speak the language or not very well and had to get a fake SS card for $20 street value to work for their families back home in Mexico

Also, those working in manufacturing do pay taxes. It's just not paid to their SS card. becaiae its fake. Those paid in cash is another story but many work for legit companies doing the checks and balances to hire them with a SS card. I do not know how well the system worked that came on board about the time I moved into high tech. I had some experience with it but not a lot. Forget what it's called
AgGrad99
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AG
I'm a manufacturer. (we manufacture parts in the US, but many of our components are made elsewhere)

This issue is very layered. And the issue is extremely different for every market, and often inside each market.

For example, take the aluminum fab/extrusion industry. Some of that has come back to the States already. But what has come back, are the parts where quality is paramount. Aircraft parts, medical applications, etc...but for basic everyday items, I still don't see a path for those. Typically, the higher the pricing of the part, the easier it is to compete...you have a little more margin to work with, and it's expected those are going to cost more. But for the parts where the nickels and dimes matter, I don't see how it's possible.

Ignoring tariffs, there is still so much imbalance that makes domestic manufacturing difficult. Government subsidies are a big one. Then you have labor cost differentials, regulation disparity, environmental disparity...and these are exponential, when you consider the entire supply chain.

I actually don't think labor costs are as big of an advantage for them as they used to be. But we have unions here. Those kill our ability to compete. If we had more right-to-work States and at-will employment, it would benefit us greatly. Labor costs will be quite a bit less in Rockdale, than Plano...we have markets that could be taken advantage of. But our government should stop subsidizing our communities with entitlements, and help out manufacturers who could provide them jobs.

I also think we could take advantage of our neighbors to the south in this regard. That's nothing new, but the informal system we used in the past is broken...that needs to be fixed. And heck, maybe we could have a few more things "hecho in mexico" like we all grew up seeing. I'd much rather that, than shipping from Asia. That benefits us both. A plant just across the border is much easier to manage than one halfway across the world.

There is also the issue of sunk costs. Many companies have set up manufacturing in foreign countries (mainly China). So how do you justify the cost of moving the plant back to the States, if it doesnt help you financially? Even if you wanted to...Can you?...given China's reluctance to let you take equipment, etc? That's a hard sell, asking companies to give up on very expensive properties, established processes and equipment, only to pay even more to set it up here.

That brings up another issue: Tooling. For many of the parts I use, which used to be made here, tooling doesn't exist any longer, outside of Asia/China. Building and Establishing the tooling would be a giant cost, and worse, requires TIME....time that companies don't have, if they want to remain in business.

During Trump's first term, we were approached with the idea of the U.S. issuing grants, to assist in bringing manufacturing back to the States. I was excited about the possibility. I was concerned with the long-term costs, but reducing my upfront costs, and sparing my capital certainly made it look promising. More efforts would have been needed (maybe tax incentive for buy-American products, etc)...but it didnt matter. Once his admin left, it went silent.

But no matter what you think about the situation, recognize that it's absolutely a National Security issue.

There are so many things we do not make here, that would affect our ability to operate as a nation, an economy and a military. Not specialized parts, but very very basic everyday components needed for our society/military to operate. If a conflict breaks out, we will certainly be behind the curve, and will need our manufacturing to catch up faster than is possible.
Pinochet
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BTHOthatguy said:

QBCade said:

jh0400 said:

Any elimination of income taxes in favor of a consumption tax through tariffs would disproportionately impact the lower and middle classes. NFW that happens.


I agree it would be regressive, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the plan… I also don't agree with that path


Bottom 50% of taxpayers contribute about $160 billion of tax revenue. Could definitely raise that from tariffs and take the fed income tax for half the country to 0.

They're not paying $160 billion in income tax. That's Medicare and social security primarily. Reducing that social safety net "insurance" payment to zero seems crazy and impossible to get done in any legislative makeup that we could have in the next 30 years.
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