Medallion level signature

3,551 Views | 25 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by halfastros81
GeorgiAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:09a, 4/16/25
AG
You may already know this, but this is just a PSA to maybe save you some time in the future. Today I learned ...

We are finally closing my dad's irrevocable trust and it's getting distributed to his 3 children. It's a mess and was poorly managed for years. It has a bunch of stuff that is long/short term capital gains, and I didn't want to mess with liquidating it all now and dealing the taxes. So, I'm going to do an in-kind transfer to a personal account that I can manage and sell stuff piecemeal when I finally get control of it.

Did all the paperwork and one said it required a "medallion level signature" since I was transferring from a trust to a personal investment account. I'm kind of embarrassed that I'm a lawyer and I've never heard of this. But I didn't feel too bad because I went to two banks and they looked at me like I have three heads. Multiple employees (like six +) had never heard of it either.

From what I understand now, it's basically a super-notary signature from a high-level bank employee with the "medallion" certification. There are websites that will tell you where you can find one near you. Still, I'm embarrassed it took me two days to figure this out.

Anywho, this may save you some headache in the future. My law partner said he knows one, so I'm still waiting to get this magical signature. Any additional pointers are welcome.
Reply Quote
5
nactownag
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to GeorgiAg • 12:26p, 4/16/25
AG
We have a medallion stamp but yes it's very challenging process to obtain it. Extra Fidelity bond required to have it as well. I think $1mm worth of bond.
Reply Quote
1
tysker
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to GeorgiAg • 4:21p, 4/16/25
AG
Medallion guarantees are such a dated concept. Is the trust held by a bank or a broker, and are the assets transferring to an account at the same institution? I ask because the firm may not require the same verification level if the assets are internal transfers.

Some customer-facing personnel have inquired about our firm getting a medallion guarantee, but I have always resisted because it isn't worth it from a liability standpoint.
Reply Quote
1
Emotional Support Cobra
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:30p, 4/16/25
AG
We had to deal with this to process something that was in my dad's name after he passed.

We got it done at Frost bank in San Antonio and it helped that my parents had a long relationship with the banker so she would provide the service without too much extra paperwork.

I am not sure it would have been so easy if my mother was not a known entity so her identity could be verified. I had never heard of this either.
Reply Quote
1 edit
GeorgiAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to tysker • 5:08p, 4/16/25
AG
tysker said:
Medallion guarantees are such a dated concept. Is the trust held by a bank or a broker, and are the assets transferring to an account at the same institution? I ask because the firm may not require the same verification level if the assets are internal transfers.

Some customer-facing personnel have inquired about our firm getting a medallion guarantee, but I have always resisted because it isn't worth it from a liability standpoint.
I have a Vanguard personal investment account, and the trust is/was at Wells Fargo. I just wanted to move the trust investments to Vanguard just to be easy since the stuff I self-manage is there and I want to manage that too.

I have my larger work/retirement account that is managed. They would handle the transfer but that's no fun. I want to manage it myself. I also have a dumb account with a small amount of money at Robinhood that I started during Covid that is my play account for more risky stuff. (When I say "risky," you guys would probably laugh. I don't mess with options, but I lurk here and you guys are inspiring me.)

I mentioned all this to my financial advisor that oversees the four guys at my retirement account and of course he wants me to move everything to him including my personal investment accounts. No thanks.

I started Vanguard just to buy some low-cost index funds and ETFs to just sit on long term, but I mess around with other stuff from time to time. I also had to build back up. Damn 1st wife ran off with half of it in the divorce. She was terrible with finances/investments even though she always had almost as much income as I did. That still infuriates me every time I think about it.
Reply Quote
GeorgiAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Emotional Support Cobra • 5:15p, 4/16/25
AG
Emotional Support Cobra said:
We had to deal with this to process something that was in my dad's name after he passed.

We got it done at Frost bank in San Antonio and it helped that my parents had a long relationship with the banker so she would provide the service without too much extra paperwork.

I am not sure it would have been so easy if my mother was not a known entity so her identity could be verified. I had never heard of this either.
Yeah, a few of my law partners are transactional attorneys and they deal with heavy duty bankers all the time. Hopefully I can parlay one of those relationships into a signature.
Reply Quote
1
tysker
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to GeorgiAg • 5:28p, 4/16/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
tysker said:
Medallion guarantees are such a dated concept. Is the trust held by a bank or a broker, and are the assets transferring to an account at the same institution? I ask because the firm may not require the same verification level if the assets are internal transfers.

Some customer-facing personnel have inquired about our firm getting a medallion guarantee, but I have always resisted because it isn't worth it from a liability standpoint.
I have a Vanguard personal investment account, and the trust is/was at Wells Fargo. I just wanted to move the trust investments to Vanguard just to be easy since the stuff I self-manage is there and I want to manage that too.

I have my larger work/retirement account that is managed. They would handle the transfer but that's no fun. I want to manage it myself. I also have a dumb account with a small amount of money at Robinhood that I started during Covid that is my play account for more risky stuff. (When I say "risky," you guys would probably laugh. I don't mess with options, but I lurk here and you guys are inspiring me.)

I mentioned all this to my financial advisor that oversees the four guys at my retirement account and of course he wants me to move everything to him including my personal investment accounts. No thanks.

I started Vanguard just to buy some low-cost index funds and ETFs to just sit on long term, but I mess around with other stuff from time to time. I also had to build back up. Damn 1st wife ran off with half of it in the divorce. She was terrible with finances/investments even though she always had almost as much income as I did. That still infuriates me every time I think about it.
Could you open an account directly with Wells and convert everything into the new one without the medallion? Then, in say 90 days, ACAT the assets to Vanguard? There's be an ACAT fee and clearly some new account paperwork with Wells, but it may be a simpler solution overall.
Reply Quote
2
tamcmsh
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:57p, 4/16/25
AG
I second the motion of using Frost bank for medallion signatures during a probate situation. They may not be the most aggressive when it comes to business loans but their personal service is hard to beat and they value long term relationships. I always prefer local banks versus the national guys due to things like this.
Reply Quote
4
YouBet
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:57p, 4/16/25
AG
We had to get one of these with Fidelity when we were moving some stuff around. Went to the Fidelity office in Dallas and knocked it out pretty quickly.
Reply Quote
4
GeorgiAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:23p, 4/16/25
AG
In Georgia, so Frost bank may not be an option but thank you for the advice.
Reply Quote
tysker
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:56p, 4/16/25
AG
Complicating matters with medallion guarantees is that, in my experience, the person signing the document and whose signature is being guaranteed, will need to be an established customer of the bank/broker. If my firm had a medallion guarantee stamp we wouldn't provide the service to just anyone, even for a fee. There's just too much liability.

Also we use electronic signatures or screen-based signatures on many documents which are often different than the customer's wet ink signature.

Using one of your, or the Trust's, current banking/broker relationships may be less complicated.
Reply Quote
OldArmyCT
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:38a, 4/17/25
AG
I'm assuming this is an estate account, why are you messing with gains and losses?
FYI Bank of America and Merrill Lynch quit doing medallion guarantees maybe 10 years ago except for their own customers. And that's probably the case with the other majors as well. If you bank with one you may check with their private bank.
Reply Quote
GeorgiAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to OldArmyCT • 8:18a, 4/17/25
AG
Dad died in 1990. It is not an estate account.
Reply Quote
EclipseAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:26a, 4/17/25
AG
The transfer of funds today is so amazingly complex.

We were fortunate to obtain a medallion signature guarantee from the branch of a local bank my family member used. But it was clear they weren't too keen on doing so, and the only reason they did was because she was a long-time customer.

Without that, I don't know what we would have done. All the other banks and financial institutions we called turned us down.

Many places that used to have notaries don't even offer that service, because there was so much fraud.
Reply Quote
1
1 edit
GeorgiAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to EclipseAg • 10:45a, 4/17/25
AG
Yeah, that's why I'm trying to go through my partners.

If I were a Medallion whatsa-whosits, I wouldn't sign this for some schmuck who walked in off the street.

I may have to just have Wells Fargo keep in in-house and move it where I want down the road.

Thanks to all for your advice and input!
Reply Quote
EclipseAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to GeorgiAg • 11:08a, 4/17/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
If I were a Medallion whatsa-whosits, I wouldn't sign this for some schmuck who walked in off the street.
Yeah, I definitely see why it's a tough call.

I have a family member who was a notary for many years. She finally gave it up because she was tired of people asking her to notarize documents "just this once" that had already been signed or where one of the signatories wasn't in person.

A common occurrence was coworkers saying, "You can watch me sign and then notarize it and then I'll take it home and my wife can sign it." She would tell them no and they'd get mad. It was just easier to drop her notary license so they would quit bugging her.
Reply Quote
4
1 edit
GeorgiAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:28a, 5/1/25
AG
Just as an endnote, I finally got the Medallion level signature at a men's bible study yesterday of all places from my law partner's brother.

It's definitely a who you know type deal. Big pain in the rear, but finally got it done.

Reply Quote
3
GeorgiAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:34a, 6/3/25
AG
One more note. Even with the Medallion signature, both financial institutions still could not get their stuff together for an in-kind transfer. Wasn't just my institution, my sister's couldn't handle it either.

So we are all having to liquidate and take the capital gains hit to move the damn money.
Reply Quote
3
halfastros81
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to GeorgiAg • 12:18p, 6/3/25
AG
I dunno what kind of $ you are talking about on cap gains taxes but any financial institution worth their salt should be able to get this done imo.
Reply Quote
1
FTAco07
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:56p, 6/3/25
AG
That doesn't seem like an acceptable resolution. I'm not familiar with the details, but is it not similar to a 401k to IRA rollover where you can liquidate and move the cash to an IRA within a certain time period and not have to pay taxes?
Reply Quote
GeorgiAg
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to FTAco07 • 9:14a, 6/4/25
AG
FTAco07 said:
That doesn't seem like an acceptable resolution. I'm not familiar with the details, but is it not similar to a 401k to IRA rollover where you can liquidate and move the cash to an IRA within a certain time period and not have to pay taxes?
I'll check with the accountant. Thank you for the suggestion.
Reply Quote
Prince_Ahmed
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to GeorgiAg • 12:33p, 6/4/25
GeorgiAg said:
One more note. Even with the Medallion signature, both financial institutions still could not get their stuff together for an in-kind transfer. Wasn't just my institution, my sister's couldn't handle it either.

So we are all having to liquidate and take the capital gains hit to move the damn money.
Agreed. This is absolutely possible for virtually any security. The medallion shouldn't have been a big deal either. Any bank that is used to conducting any amount of trust business is going to have a medallion stamp. It's still very commonly used for transfers of stock ownership, so it's not surprising that if you had trouble at an institution who didn't have the stamp, that they'd also not be used to transacting that kind of business.

Since you mentioned Wells Fargo, don't waste your time with the Personal Bankers/Licenses Bankers or even Business Bankers. Find a branch with an in-house Financial Advisor - they're the ones used to doing this. Or if it's a significant amount of assets their private banking services would love to help you with it, in the hope they get the account.
Reply Quote
1
techno-ag
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:02p, 6/4/25
AG
Dealt with the medallion thing recently with the Texas Tuition Promise Fund. A grandparent passed away. Kid finished college. Could not get the kid the leftover funds because our bank does not do medallion signature and nobody else in town will, either. Finally decided to just abandon the funds because we couldn't get them.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
Reply Quote
Prince_Ahmed
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to techno-ag • 3:32p, 6/4/25
techno-ag said:
Dealt with the medallion thing recently with the Texas Tuition Promise Fund. A grandparent passed away. Kid finished college. Could not get the kid the leftover funds because our bank does not do medallion signature and nobody else in town will, either. Finally decided to just abandon the funds because we couldn't get them.
Where are you located? From your posts it looks like BCS?

BoA, Wells Fargo, Brazos Star CU, Aggieland CU, BVSCU, BPFCU, Chase and PNC all do it... some may just be for members, but there should be lots of options...
Reply Quote
techno-ag
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Prince_Ahmed • 3:41p, 6/4/25
AG
Prince_Ahmed said:
techno-ag said:
Dealt with the medallion thing recently with the Texas Tuition Promise Fund. A grandparent passed away. Kid finished college. Could not get the kid the leftover funds because our bank does not do medallion signature and nobody else in town will, either. Finally decided to just abandon the funds because we couldn't get them.
Where are you located? From your posts it looks like BCS?

BoA, Wells Fargo, Brazos Star CU, Aggieland CU, BVSCU, BPFCU, Chase and PNC all do it... some may just be for members, but there should be lots of options...
Key word is should be. Struck out at every bank I do business with. It was frustrating. Fortunately the sum we gave up was only a couple thousand or so. But they make it extraordinarily difficult with the medallion thing that nobody does.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
Reply Quote
1
halfastros81
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to techno-ag • 10:06a, 6/5/25
AG
Wells Fargo does it at some locations. Merrill Lynch Advisors has done it several x for me . Just a few data points.
Reply Quote
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.