I hate owning a home. We got so unlucky with the home we bought it makes never to want to own again.

We've missed out on at least 400k in appreciation due to the neighborhood foundation issues as well as our own foundation issues. Our $35k in settlement settlement money won't pay for the structural crew to mobilize. Similar homes across the road are going for 850-900. We'd be doing well to get 500 - fees/commission

El Chupacabra said:

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I hate owning a home. We got so unlucky with the home we bought it makes never to want to own again.

We've missed out on at least 400k in appreciation due to the neighborhood foundation issues as well as our own foundation issues. Our $35k in settlement settlement money won't pay for the structural crew to mobilize. Similar homes across the road are going for 850-900. We'd be doing well to get 500 - fees/commission

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That sucks and sorry to hear that. I think this entire debate hinges on a lot of factors: where you live, how you live, what you value, do you look at this as purely a roof or a potential investment - a combination?, your overall financial situation, etc. It's going to make sense for one person to rent and another person to own depending on all of these factors.

To date, we just bought our 4th home in 19 years which is way more than I ever anticipated when we got married. However, one thing I will never do is build a home. My parents have built every home they ever lived in and watching the stress, time, and headache of that process is simply not worth it. I would rather pay a premium and buy a nice established home than go through that gauntlet of hell.

We are still trying to unload their last house over 1 year later because it's almost literally the Money Pit house from the movie. Complete disaster of a build after the fact.

YouBet said:

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jamey said:

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MAS444 said:

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I just can't imagine being a growed up man with a family - kids, grandkids, whatever….and renting a damn house.

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About half my neighborhood does it.

One neighbor with 2 kids in elementary school age just resigned for 2 more years. They agreed to paint the house if rent did not go up


Based on talks with another neighbor that was renting i think theyre renting for $3,500 to $3,800 per month.

My mortgage for the same house is $2,900

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Paycheck to paycheck country.

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I don't disagree with being a paycheck to paycheck country.

But am genuinely confused about what that has to do with this post you quoted.

htxag09 said:

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YouBet said:

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jamey said:

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MAS444 said:

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I just can't imagine being a growed up man with a family - kids, grandkids, whatever….and renting a damn house.

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About half my neighborhood does it.

One neighbor with 2 kids in elementary school age just resigned for 2 more years. They agreed to paint the house if rent did not go up


Based on talks with another neighbor that was renting i think theyre renting for $3,500 to $3,800 per month.

My mortgage for the same house is $2,900

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Paycheck to paycheck country.

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I don't disagree with being a paycheck to paycheck country.

But am genuinely confused about what that has to do with this post you quoted.

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Because most people live paycheck to paycheck, they have little financial buffer for taking a rent increase. Thus, they barter with services and favors like in this example.

My first wife and I did the same thing in the first duplex we rented when we moved to Dallas. We made a combined $50k per year (we were young newlyweds) and we lucked out and found a cheap duplex about a mile from work in a nice neighborhood. Instead of raising the rent, I negotiated with the landlord to make some one-time improvements around the place that would let her raise the rent after we were gone.

Hoyt Ag said:

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YouBet said:

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OldArmyCT said:

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In Texas in a $700,000 home your property tax is around $1,000 a month.

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Which is why moving out of Texas is almost a financial no brainer once you are retired. If you are just factoring the bottom line.. There are other reasons to stay there that many will value higher than the bottom line.

Our property taxes + insurance + state income tax on a 7 figure home are cheaper than renting in Texas now that we moved out of state. Was not the case in Texas with just property taxes + insurance for us.

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Same here. My house in CO is around 550-600 and I pay around $1500 a year in property taxes. It was one of the biggest shockers to me when I left South Texas. However, we do have the state income tax here, so there is that.

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$1500 a year on $600k home? Where is this?

My $750k home is ~$6k a year. 1/3 of that is my neighborhood/metro district, which will go away in about 10 years.

Quote:

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$1500 a year on $600k home? Where is this?

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East Tennessee.

We just got our re-appraisal (it's every four years where we live). Our property taxes are going up 24%. We'll pay 3/10th's of 1% on the appraised value of our property.

That said, we pay 6.75% tax on food, 9.25% on non-food items.

ToddyHill said:

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Quote:

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$1500 a year on $600k home? Where is this?

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East Tennessee.

We just got our re-appraisal (it's every four years where we live). Our property taxes are going up 24%. We'll pay 3/10th's of 1% on the appraised value of our property.

That said, we pay 6.75% tax on food, 9.25% on non-food items.

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I was asking the person who lives in CO, which is where I am. Wasn't asking where in the USA this could happen.

I am in Rio Blanco County. I just checked and I paid $1729, so I was a hair off. County has it on the books for $500K and I will list it for $600k later this year.

jamey said:

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Hoyt Ag said:

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YouBet said:

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OldArmyCT said:

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In Texas in a $700,000 home your property tax is around $1,000 a month.

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Which is why moving out of Texas is almost a financial no brainer once you are retired. If you are just factoring the bottom line.. There are other reasons to stay there that many will value higher than the bottom line.

Our property taxes + insurance + state income tax on a 7 figure home are cheaper than renting in Texas now that we moved out of state. Was not the case in Texas with just property taxes + insurance for us.

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Same here. My house in CO is around 550-600 and I pay around $1500 a year in property taxes. It was one of the biggest shockers to me when I left South Texas. However, we do have the state income tax here, so there is that.

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Maybe move to a state with sales tax instead of property tax, become a vegetarian except for Xmas and Thanksgiving dinner and grow your own food.


In the end, none of this stuff is unavoidable. Taxes, insurance, maintenance..etc is a cost in one form or a other everywhere whether you rent or own

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But it's disadvantageous to have a high prop tax rate, vs a state income tax.

With a high property tax rate, if your home increases drastically/quickly, you could owe another several thousand a year, but hypothetically your income could have remained stagnant, so people can get priced out of their home.

On the other hand, if my income goes up drastically in a short period of time.. well, the income tax is just taken off the top, so I never notice it.

YouBet said:

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El Chupacabra said:

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I hate owning a home. We got so unlucky with the home we bought it makes never to want to own again.

We've missed out on at least 400k in appreciation due to the neighborhood foundation issues as well as our own foundation issues. Our $35k in settlement settlement money won't pay for the structural crew to mobilize. Similar homes across the road are going for 850-900. We'd be doing well to get 500 - fees/commission

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That sucks and sorry to hear that. I think this entire debate hinges on a lot of factors: where you live, how you live, what you value, do you look at this as purely a roof or a potential investment - a combination?, your overall financial situation, etc. It's going to make sense for one person to rent and another person to own depending on all of these factors.

To date, we just bought our 4th home in 19 years which is way more than I ever anticipated when we got married. However, one thing I will never do is build a home. My parents have built every home they ever lived in and watching the stress, time, and headache of that process is simply not worth it. I would rather pay a premium and buy a nice established home than go through that gauntlet of hell.

We are still trying to unload their last house over 1 year later because it's almost literally the Money Pit house from the movie. Complete disaster of a build after the fact.

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I kick myself. During/coming out of the covid nonsense...I could have sold my house for $600 probably and had a check in hand by noon. We were just worried that we wouldn't be able to buy anything or rent anything that would have been any better or cheaper. That was incorrect. We could have bought a smaller house for $600 that would now be worth $800, versus keeping our house that might get $500.

Property taxes?

assessments?

HVAC repair?

insurance?

HOA Fees?

roof repair?

there have been hundreds of studies stating that often times it is cheaper and more economical to rent than to own.

if you would have taken the down payment, the interest on your mortgage, the closing costs and invested it in the market over 30 years then tell us how much money you would have.

can you pay your bills and buy dinner with your house?

or with $660,000 in liquid assets?

ToddyHill said:

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Quote:

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$1500 a year on $600k home? Where is this?

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East Tennessee.

We just got our re-appraisal (it's every four years where we live). Our property taxes are going up 24%. We'll pay 3/10th's of 1% on the appraised value of our property.

That said, we pay 6.75% tax on food, 9.25% on non-food items.

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That's interesting. Is that a TN state wide practice? No wonder it's so much cheaper there than in Texas where every year it goes up.

We are now in New Mexico where it's way cheaper than TX as well. Our property taxes have a similar formula like yours and from what I gather from the locals, houses getting reappraised here is not nearly the diligent process as it is in Texas. They may or may not reset the appraisal upon home sale and resetting to purchase price, and then taxable value changes from year to year are random.

We live in the county, so we pay county taxes only. If we lived in a nearby city, such as Alcoa or Maryville, we'd pay their tax as well, which would double what we pay. Appraisals go out every four years, and they're generally spot on in relation to what we see on Zillow. One fact that's taken into account is the mil rate. Four years ago, appraisals soared, and everyone thought their taxes would as well. Instead, the mil rate was reduced so the impact was not as drastic.

ToddyHill said:

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We live in the county, so we pay county taxes only. If we lived in a nearby city, such as Alcoa or Maryville, we'd pay their tax as well, which would double what we pay. Appraisals go out every four years, and they're generally spot on in relation to what we see on Zillow. One fact that's taken into account is the mil rate. Four years ago, appraisals soared, and everyone thought their taxes would as well. Instead, the mil rate was reduced so the impact was not as drastic.

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Ditto. We also use a mil rate. I guess maybe that's why it's infrequent. I've always lived in the city until this home so never thought about it.

Except you're often not comparing apples to apples on the house selection.

There's a reason most desirable neighborhoods have very few rental properties.

You also have to take into account that rent can change at an any time, your house payment shouldn't.

One is a "we are going to stay here forever", the other is "we are going to stay here as long as we're allowed to". There's a big difference between the two.

I mean general maintenance won't be $24k a year, no.

But you're also assuming most people will be fine and dandy living in a house with no renovations for 50 years (assuming a 30 year mortgage then 20 years of it being mortgage free).

A renovation can easily cost $150k+

htxag09 said:

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I mean general maintenance won't be $24k a year, no.

But you're also assuming most people will be fine and dandy living in a house with no renovations for 50 years (assuming a 30 year mortgage then 20 years of it being mortgage free).

A renovation can easily cost $150k+

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I don't think anyone in their right mind would ever argue that buying a home and putting 50 years in it would ever be a worse financial decision than renting.

But living 50 years in a single home is probably 1/100 of 1% of home buyers.

Yeah. Agree 100%. Definitely not trying to imply that it makes owning more expensive. Just saying that acting like the only costs you'll have are maintenance won't be accurate.

htxag09 said:

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Yeah. Agree 100%. Definitely not trying to imply that it makes owning more expensive. Just saying that acting like the only costs you'll have are maintenance won't be accurate.

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I mean.. my grandparents both lived in their homes 40ish years and never renovated anything.
It certainly isn't a guarantee, but renovation culture is certainly more prevalent now than it was in the 80s or 90s.

150k on a renovation sounds extremely wasteful to me. I keep my trucks for 12 -15 years and hate having to buy a new one.

On renovations:

If you do it wisely (most spend on kitchen/baths), you can realize 50-60% of the cost in improved resale value (contractors will say 80-100%, but you shouldn't fall for it). It's kind of a wash on the rent vs. buy question, because the landlord will likely be renovating regularly, and should also see a 50-60% increase in rental rates. However, the most important factor on renovations is it more often than not makes your house either sell or rent more quickly than a similar one that hasn't been updated. This all presumes that the renovation is tasteful and reflects current market style/function preferences (which a lot of homeowners don't have a good handle on, unfortunately).

A lot of that also falls under "this is where you spend the majority of your waking hours" - how a renovation impacts resale value is treating your home as an investment.

Its a weird last 15 years or so type thinking of letting what is financially the best move dictate lifestyle.

Proposition Joe said:

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A lot of that also falls under "this is where you spend the majority of your waking hours" - how a renovation impacts resale value is treating your home as an investment.

Its a weird last 15 years or so type thinking of letting what is financially the best move dictate lifestyle.

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For sure agree. I wouldn't turn a blind eye toward resale value, but if I'm in that middle group of home ownership tenure, I'd certainly target my home improvements toward what I'd enjoy the most (that's one of the specifically unique factors I mentioned earlier). The freedom to configure my home to my specific lifestyle is a major point in favor of buying vs. renting. But if you put in a bowling alley, wave pool, sauna, and a guitar-shaped pool, you have only yourself to blame if you fell for the contractor's estimate that all home improvements always return 80-100% of the cost in a resale.

I bleed maroon said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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A lot of that also falls under "this is where you spend the majority of your waking hours" - how a renovation impacts resale value is treating your home as an investment.

Its a weird last 15 years or so type thinking of letting what is financially the best move dictate lifestyle.

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For sure agree. I wouldn't turn a blind eye toward resale value, but if I'm in that middle group of home ownership tenure, I'd certainly target my home improvements toward what I'd enjoy the most (that's one of the specifically unique factors I mentioned earlier). The freedom to configure my home to my specific lifestyle is a major point in favor of buying vs. renting. But if you put in a bowling alley, wave pool, sauna, and a guitar-shaped pool, you have only yourself to blame if you fell for the contractor's estimate that all home improvements always return 80-100% of the cost in a resale.

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Great points. The house we just bought is not a normal layout. It's built for 2 people and we absolutely loved it the first time we saw it. It wasn't selling because it's fairly niche in that regard. One example: we have no dedicated guest bedroom. If you stay with us, you are going to be on a cabinet Murphy bed (not yet purchased) or staying at a hotel. No offense.

To be fair, as I mentioned earlier, this is our 4th house and we plan for it to be the last one until we go to the old folks home or die. Really don't care too much about resale value at this point. I obviously cared more about that with our earlier houses, but not this one to hit on your point of "middle group of home ownership tenure".

And you pay property taxes for your landlord if you rent. Your'e paying them either way so why not build equity?