This is relevant to me as I've recently been trying to figure out how/when to delicately broach the subject with my early 80s year old dad. He's single...although with a somewhat live in "girlfriend" (it's complicated)... and I'll be the only one to have to deal with things if/when his health goes south. He's in reasonably good financial shape for now, but obviously any kind of long term or inpatient care/living could put a significant dent in things. He's currently in relatievly good shape/health...but I've started to notice a subtle mental decline. Both his father and his much older now deceased brother started to have significant mental declines in their 80s that necessitated inpatient long term care. I'm concerned about getting control of his finances BEFORE he loses his mental capcity to make sound decisions. I guess I just need to bring it up, but don't want him to think it's for the wrong reasons.

I'm 55 years old and never once thought about getting an inheritance from my parents

then my mom tells me and my sister that they are leaving us each $500,000 and not to fight over their stuff

I wonder how many people on the planet secretly plan their lives around trying to get inheritance from family members.

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We don't do or believe in trusts as they are an epic pain in the neck and I don't think they are necessary.

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I'm not trying to change your mind...but I will share why we opted for revocable trusts, which I believe are necessary.

Our wills, which will be available to the public, will state that all our assets are owned by our joint revocable trust. The wills themselves will be about a page or two. That's all anyone from the public will see.

The Revocable Trusts are private, and no one outside of our heirs will see the details.

I had to take a step back when confronted with the legal fees to put this stuff together. Obviously, my wife and I will be pushing up Daisy's...but we don't want our heirs to be confronted by unscrupulous and anonymous people who pulled our wills and read all the details.

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Usually in the will there is a token cash amount left for that person so that they don't contest the will.

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I hear you loud and clear, and I agree 100% with your statement. That said, the attorney who is writing our wills and the revocable trust asked us if we wanted to insert a clause that said...."Anyone who contests these wills or revocable trusts will forfeit any inheritance."

That was a blindside for both of us. It was an easy decision to have that statement added to our documents.

RightWingConspirator said:

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My daughters know exactly what I'm worth. We don't shy away from financial lessons. I've shared with them how we amassed our net worth and encouraged them to do likewise. My daughters also understand that they're on the hook for their own lives. While they'll receive something if I die, they ought not to count on it. I have a deal with my daughters where I pick up their living expenses in college, but they're on the hook for books and tuition. My oldest daughter graduated with a degree in accounting with zero debt. She paid for her own school through scholarship, internships, and savings. My middle daughter just graduated from high school and has saved about $15,000 of her own money to pay for school. She too will receive scholarship.

My kids know about my wealth, but they don't live their lives counting on dad to die. And neither ever complained about them having to pick up books and tuition. They understand how to achieve the same and have demonstrated thus far that they'll do likewise. Can I afford to pay for everything? Sure, but I'd deprive them of a life lesson that will take them much further than me just paying it for them.

**I've never understood why a family would be reluctant to share important financial lessons and results with their kids***

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A lot of this.

I talk about money and what we have all the time. my kids are 11 and 14. They know my net worth, it's not impressive by today's standards, and they know about how much I make, again, not impressive by today's standards.


They don't know that they both have 100k (and growing/adding) in a college fund. They'll be aware of that once they get closer.

12thAngryMan said:

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Why don't you enlighten us as to the secret? You're saying if you had, say, a guaranteed 10mm coming you wouldn't live your life any differently?

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he's not a kid.


Me living my life differently as a mid 40 year old because I get a huge windfall is different than a 12 year old kid knowing he has money coming to him. We've created our family's lifestyle based on our own merits and not getting a huge windfall, and our kids need to do the same.


Our boys are 9 and 11. I have many relatives here in Denver. They see how different it is at some of the houses of relatives on golf courses vs others who live in townhomes.

Kids aren't stupid. They know a luxury when they see it, and we like to spoil our kids. Doesn't correlate to wealth of course, but again, they are at an age where they can figure some of this stuff out. They also listen very well when they want to and you aren't necessarily paying attention.

it seems the most prudent course of action is to NEVER plan on actually getting an inheritance

but that it would be a great addition to your current retirement plan.

because obviously there is a huge difference between me having 2 million dollars in savings at age 57

and 2.5 million dollars at age 58- but that may not ever come to fruition for a myriad of reasons.

so I am going to keep working two more years to get to two million in savings-

then if I get a windfall later in the next few years it's just extra

I can't imagine being a spoiled family member hoping for someone to die to get their money. although I have seen it all over the world

I learned about how much my mom made while in college because I saw the offer letter. She's recently been including my brother and I in her financials and big decisions. We're in our 30s and she's in her 60s. Dad and her divorced when I was in middle school. I could guess what my dad makes but it would be just a wild ass guess. I've never heard a number. The only financial advice he's ever given me is make your money while you're young and have a life insurance policy that covers your remaining debt and funeral expenses. The only reason he told me his life insurance thoughts are because I asked. He's remarried with step children.

I'd consider myself to be self-learned about money. I never wanted for anything so I know we had enough but it wasn't because we had a ton to spare. My mom takes on a lot of debt but she paid for my college. How she lives the life she lives actually scares me when she decides to retire. Only reason I say that is because she sat me down to show me her accounts a year or so ago. Perspective. What I think I need to retire is vastly different than what she does.

So I have one parent giving me a full look at her finances. Another tells me nothing other than he's broke, but he's much more frugal and likely has more set aside for retirement (although I thought my mom did too until I saw the numbers). The only thing that's happened about my mom sharing is it's made me feel better about my situation but worried about hers. I don't feel like either did a good enough job talking with me about money growing up and I feel like my financial literacy is low because of it. My wife and I are already working to set stuff up for my son and I plan on at least attempting to teach him about money as he grows up.

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What I think I need to retire is vastly different than what she does.

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FWIW...for years I've heard the same ole same ole...when you retire your expenses will go down. Having been retired for 18 months I'm of the opinion that's a bunch of B.S.

Just assume the mortgage is paid off when you retire.

The cost of food goes up.
The cost of your utilities goes up.
Your Medicare goes up.
Your Medicare supplement goes up.
Your property taxes goes up.

And on and on and on.

Just my two cents...your expenses do not go down...so plan accordingly.

I'm 22 months into retirement and my living expenses are about 60% of what they were before retiring.

ToddyHill said:

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What I think I need to retire is vastly different than what she does.

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FWIW...for years I've heard the same ole same ole...when you retire your expenses will go down. Having been retired for 18 months I'm of the opinion that's a bunch of B.S.

Just assume the mortgage is paid off when you retire.

The cost of food goes up.
The cost of your utilities goes up.
Your Medicare goes up.
Your Medicare supplement goes up.
Your property taxes goes up.

And on and on and on.

Just my two cents...your expenses do not go down...so plan accordingly.

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kinda forgot about the whole cost of raising kids. I plan to retire a few years after they leave the house. Damn near all my money goes to them at this point!

I think I'll spend about $8k on baseball related things this year for 2 boys. Team fees, travel related expenses, uniforms, gear

Traveling/vacation with 2 extra is of course more. Food, clothes, I don't have to say all this it's obvious.

I would love to know your secret!

When I worked I went out to lunch 7 days a week but limit to 3 times now. Dropped my All American Club tickets since I moved away. If I don't need it I don't buy it. Before if I wanted it I probably bought it. I don't drive nearly as much. Downsized my golf spending even though I play a lot more. I took 2 weeks off in May but I've still played 76 times this year.

I moved far away and my employer allowed me to work remotely for the last 18 months I worked. When I made that move I put myself on my retirement budget even though my income would have allowed me to spend more. That made sticking to it much easier once I was no longer working.

Most of our wealth is tied up in real estate and rent houses. My hope is to get my kids involved on their own by the time they're out of college. The plan is to tell our kids that if they want access to any of the money, they need to accept our help when theyre still young and to use that help to learn and build for themselves. And for them to see how their own work and discipline can buy financial security. If they choose to just sit back, they could be in for a long wait. My wife being younger, they'll likely be too old to do much with it by the time she passes what's left to them.

I also think it's important for your kids to always be a little hungry. I don't think our kids have figured out how much we are worth yet. We don't spend money like a lot of their friends parents. And kids see being "rich" from a spending viewpoint. We discuss money and spending pretty regularly and talk about the value of what you're getting for the prices being asked. And how a lot of times you have to make smart choices about what to spend your money on. And honestly, while our net worth is doing well, monthly cash flow can be kind of tight sometimes. Personally, I think that's not a bad thing for our kids to experience.

As they start to get older and ask about why we feel "poor" in comparison to their friends, when we own houses all over town, I'll get into the difference between money used for investing and how if you maintain it, it works for you, and spending money that comes and goes on a monthly basis. Hopefully they'll understand the importance of running each purse as its own separate business.

Hopefully them growing up around modest spending habits combined with the opportunity for some financial backing will serve them well. I'd rather them have some access to it while I'm still around to help and teach than they just blow it once inherited.

Very interesting topic.

My parents have always been secretive about their financial position, and that's their right if they want to be that way. I have no idea what their net worth is. They are modest, very frugal, and have done well by my estimation and provided a great childhood to my siblings and I full of lessons along with our undergrad educations. They both grew up in blue collar families and were the first generation in the family to go to college.

When I was in my late teens, I remember asking my dad if he could share with me what his asset allocation was so I could learn. I think he thought I meant absolute dollar values and wanted nothing to do with that conversation. That was the last time I've tried to have a deep conversation about money with my parents. They are a closed book and it is what it is.

A year ago, they did ask our opinions about buying a modest vacation home, even though my mom is fully against having one as a VRBO off season. I told them if I were them I'd buy land instead

On the other hand, my father in law was visiting recently, and we got on the subject of his upcoming retirement. My spouse asked if he had a pension ready to go, and he proceeded to share the amount in his pension with us. I was floored he would share that; my parents would never.

People are different.

My parents gave me a good upbringing and the tools to learn on my on my own, but I do wish they were more transparent and I had learned more about personal finance earlier on in my childhood.

Allow me to be the proud father for a moment. Because we did not shy away from financial discussions, and because I was always transparent in my thinking with them when it concerned money (even to the point of rolled eyes many times), I have seen the fruits of my efforts in my oldest daughter.

She's now married and graduated with a degree in Accounting. She's now studying for the CPA. She got married a couple of years ago and they needed help with a car. I thought, I can help them out, but it would be better for my middle daughter to loan them the money. She charged an interest rate equivalent to what she could get in a money market. Point wasn't to fleece her sister. I wanted her to understand that it takes money to make money. In short, my middle daughter lent her sister the money - approximately $2300. My oldest made every payment (18 in total) on time and meticulously budgeted and planned for tuition, future expenditures, fixed expenses, etc. To see this in my kids made me very proud. They each understand money and live very frugal lives because they understand the power of it.

In short, share with your kids financial lessons. It will do them good.

I have mixed opinions on loaning money to family members. On one hand it teaches life lessons and keeps the profit in the family. On the other hand it creates a subservient relationship between family members and can screw up a lot of non-business relationships if someone defaults. As a general rule of thumb I avoid doing business with family. I like my family too much for business to eff it up, but to each his own.

One of our children (16 year old) knows about our finances. I'm probably way more open than I should be but also trying to help them understand the value of work and money. The older one (doesn't live at home anymore) does not have any of the fine details.

We ultimately will be setting up trusts - just need to get off our butts and get that done. We don't want either getting lump sums while they are young, as we want them to grow into resposnible, hard-working adults who just happen to get some money later in life, while they still have plenty of time to enjoy it, but not just burn through it or stop working (it wouldn't be enough for the latter if we die early).

The things we are trying to teach the younger one - its not about the 'finer' things in life. Sure could we drive more expensive vehicles or live in a more expensive house - yes. But instead, we are dumping what we can into retirement plans and buying rent houses.

Yes, I'd agree with you across the board, but in this particular case, I had a newlywed couple who were each working and going to school and they needed a car. They could have gone and financed it, but not sure banks will loan money on a car that is 10 years old, and if they will, it will be at a very ugly interest rate. Further, my daughter had exhibited behavior where I think she'd choose death before default; hence, I had my youngest daughter loan them the money at a far better interest rate than what the bank would pay her, while also giving terms to my daughter at far better rates than what she would get from a bank. In the scheme of things, I have a kid that made it all the way through college with no help from me, so I gladly facilitated the loan and the lesson.

Generally, I don't ever loan family money, but in this case, it was my own daughter. And even had she defaulted, I'd have made my other daughter whole, and I'd have just eaten the loss. $2300 is not a lot of money to me, at least.

I'm 32 and could guess my parents net worth, because of rentals, but it would just be a guess. I don't really care to know at all. Not my business at all. They helped me thru college and now my wife and I are building our own life. If they live to 85, I'll be about retirement age anyway so could care less about inheritance other than making retirement slightly more comfortable. Financial lessons and teaching is great. But you can do that easily without divulging any hints towards salary or net worth.

My wife and I have 3 children so far and they will not be willingly given any hints towards our situation

And yet, at the same time, the opposite is true. You can teach a great deal to your kids by sharing that information with them. Obviously, there is no right or wrong answer to the question in the OP. It's all relative and depends upon both the values, quality, and trustworthiness of all the people involved.

If my kids were materialistic and overly concerned with money as a status symbol, I would probably be less inclined to share any specifics with them. If they already struggled with motivation to put in a high level of effort and improving at what they do, then again, I probably wouldn't disclose as much. There's no absolute one way is best set of advice that you can follow on this topic.

MAS444 said:

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This is relevant to me as I've recently been trying to figure out how/when to delicately broach the subject with my early 80s year old dad. He's single...although with a somewhat live in "girlfriend" (it's complicated)... and I'll be the only one to have to deal with things if/when his health goes south. He's in reasonably good financial shape for now, but obviously any kind of long term or inpatient care/living could put a significant dent in things. He's currently in relatievly good shape/health...but I've started to notice a subtle mental decline. Both his father and his much older now deceased brother started to have significant mental declines in their 80s that necessitated inpatient long term care. I'm concerned about getting control of his finances BEFORE he loses his mental capcity to make sound decisions. I guess I just need to bring it up, but don't want him to think it's for the wrong reasons.

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God bless you and good luck. My dad was 74 when we broached it (he made a will, had no partner, gave me POA etc.) and within two years had to move to independent living with a dementia diagnosis. For some reason he was open with me (maybe because we navigated him through bankruptcy and a little over a year later, inherited from my grandfather and got to keep it all - more than he ever had in his working life). We subsequently helped him buy a house, and set him up pretty well.

If you don't know who his advisor is, probably good to meet them until you can get on the accounts. I hope the conversation goes well.

GoAgs92 said:

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at the will reading?

when you start being able to not take care of things?

any advantages to telling them while they are still young?

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Good question. I have not yet told them. I just let them know how money we put in their name is growing. But my wife cautions that that might make them lazy, so hard question.

At some point when they get to their mid 20s I plan on telling them. Looking for advice if that is the right thing.

As stated above, interesting thread. There isn't a right or wrong answer. I suppose my line of thinking is as long as you aren't setting up your children to be lazy and non-contributors to society, communicate whatever and however you want.

I intend for my kids to inherit something. I have no idea how much that will be, but I sleep better knowing that I'm giving them a safety net. Now my kids are 10 and 8, so God willing, I have a ways to go. Ideally, I'd rather they don't know too many details (if any) as to what that safety net is and would prefer to have more concrete discussions with them once their careers are established.

infinity ag said:

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GoAgs92 said:

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at the will reading?

when you start being able to not take care of things?

any advantages to telling them while they are still young?

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Good question. I have not yet told them. I just let them know how money we put in their name is growing. But my wife cautions that that might make them lazy, so hard question.

At some point when they get to their mid 20s I plan on telling them. Looking for advice if that is the right thing.

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But do they not find out when they are 18 or 21?

We were going to put stuff in each kiddos name, but I was told they could withdraw it at 18. So for now we have separate accounts that are in our names, but that we contribute to.

JMac03 said:

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infinity ag said:

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GoAgs92 said:

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at the will reading?

when you start being able to not take care of things?

any advantages to telling them while they are still young?

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Good question. I have not yet told them. I just let them know how money we put in their name is growing. But my wife cautions that that might make them lazy, so hard question.

At some point when they get to their mid 20s I plan on telling them. Looking for advice if that is the right thing.

---

But do they not find out when they are 18 or 21?

We were going to put stuff in each kiddos name, but I was told they could withdraw it at 18. So for now we have separate accounts that are in our names, but that we contribute to.

---

My kids are 18 and 21 right now. My son (older) has not yet had the switch flip about money, but he will soon as he starts his first job and has to manage himself. Once he settles, I will talk to him about his own finances and portfolio. I invested all his internship money and other gifts. Daughter has everything paid by me so she has no motivation to worry about money. She has some way to go before she is on her own. My daughter has an acc where I am the joint as she is a week under 18.

But the bigger question is when do I tell them how much their mom and dad have. Which at some point they would inherit. They don't have an idea and don't seem to care right now but I have to work that in at some point.

infinity ag said:

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JMac03 said:

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infinity ag said:

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GoAgs92 said:

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at the will reading?

when you start being able to not take care of things?

any advantages to telling them while they are still young?

---

Good question. I have not yet told them. I just let them know how money we put in their name is growing. But my wife cautions that that might make them lazy, so hard question.

At some point when they get to their mid 20s I plan on telling them. Looking for advice if that is the right thing.

---

But do they not find out when they are 18 or 21?

We were going to put stuff in each kiddos name, but I was told they could withdraw it at 18. So for now we have separate accounts that are in our names, but that we contribute to.

---

My kids are 18 and 21 right now. My son (older) has not yet had the switch flip about money, but he will soon as he starts his first job and has to manage himself. Once he settles, I will talk to him about his own finances and portfolio. I invested all his internship money and other gifts. Daughter has everything paid by me so she has no motivation to worry about money. She has some way to go before she is on her own. My daughter has an acc where I am the joint as she is a week under 18.

But the bigger question is when do I tell them how much their mom and dad have. Which at some point they would inherit. They don't have an idea and don't seem to care right now but I have to work that in at some point.

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dang.. my boys are 10/11 and we make them pay for stuff all the time. They wanted a nintendo switch, they saved up to pay (mostly raking leaves and clearing snow from driveways)
One of them kicked a ball into garage door and broke the glass, he had to pay for it.
The same one was doing full dishwasher duties (load/unload every other day) for $20 a week, and he was getting behind, so I 'fired' him. Maybe next time he'll stay on top of the chore!

They wanted new bats for baseball, we offered $150 towards each kid (price of about the cheapest bat), they had to figure out how much more they wanted to add to it and base the budget on that.

They also both know I opened a UTMA for each of them, starting with $500, and have contributed $30 a week to each of them. Been a year or two, both up to $5k. I have explained to them, and showed the math, that I will continue this until they are 18, and at that time, it could be $16-$20k. Then show them that if pick up where I stop, and contributing just the $30 a week than when they are 65, that single investment alone will be almost $900k.

If they do $200 a month instead of the $130, it turns into $1.2m. (Also was a good time to teach that a month isn't 4 weeks)


Your last sentence.. no sense in talking about what 'they will inherit' unless you're on your deathbed. My parents have a pretty large nest egg, they are 74/75. They are enjoying it and sparing no expense along the way. Good for them. It's theirs. Luckily for them, they can't hardly spend the principal because the market is so good the last decade. But you may have nothing left for your kids. To tell them anything in young adult hood just sets up unnecessary expectations.

We have a UTMA for our daughter which she'll get when she's 21. Going to have to figure out how to talk to her about that the responsibility so she doesn't blow it all.

I'd expect it to be around $50k or so when she's 21. Hopefully she'll be smart with it and use it for a home down payment or something. We'll see where things stand in 12 years, but could also use some of it to purchase her first car.

62strat said:

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infinity ag said:

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JMac03 said:

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infinity ag said:

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GoAgs92 said:

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at the will reading?

when you start being able to not take care of things?

any advantages to telling them while they are still young?

---

Good question. I have not yet told them. I just let them know how money we put in their name is growing. But my wife cautions that that might make them lazy, so hard question.

At some point when they get to their mid 20s I plan on telling them. Looking for advice if that is the right thing.

---

But do they not find out when they are 18 or 21?

We were going to put stuff in each kiddos name, but I was told they could withdraw it at 18. So for now we have separate accounts that are in our names, but that we contribute to.

---

My kids are 18 and 21 right now. My son (older) has not yet had the switch flip about money, but he will soon as he starts his first job and has to manage himself. Once he settles, I will talk to him about his own finances and portfolio. I invested all his internship money and other gifts. Daughter has everything paid by me so she has no motivation to worry about money. She has some way to go before she is on her own. My daughter has an acc where I am the joint as she is a week under 18.

But the bigger question is when do I tell them how much their mom and dad have. Which at some point they would inherit. They don't have an idea and don't seem to care right now but I have to work that in at some point.

---

dang.. my boys are 10/11 and we make them pay for stuff all the time. They wanted a nintendo switch, they saved up to pay (mostly raking leaves and clearing snow from driveways)
One of them kicked a ball into garage door and broke the glass, he had to pay for it.
The same one was doing full dishwasher duties (load/unload every other day) for $20 a week, and he was getting behind, so I 'fired' him. Maybe next time he'll stay on top of the chore!

They wanted new bats for baseball, we offered $150 towards each kid (price of about the cheapest bat), they had to figure out how much more they wanted to add to it and base the budget on that.

They also both know I opened a UTMA for each of them, starting with $500, and have contributed $30 a week to each of them. Been a year or two, both up to $5k. I have explained to them, and showed the math, that I will continue this until they are 18, and at that time, it could be $16-$20k. Then show them that if pick up where I stop, and contributing just the $30 a week than when they are 65, that single investment alone will be almost $900k.

If they do $200 a month instead of the $130, it turns into $1.2m. (Also was a good time to teach that a month isn't 4 weeks)


Your last sentence.. no sense in talking about what 'they will inherit' unless you're on your deathbed. My parents have a pretty large nest egg, they are 74/75. They are enjoying it and sparing no expense along the way. Good for them. It's theirs. Luckily for them, they can't hardly spend the principal because the market is so good the last decade. But you may have nothing left for your kids. To tell them anything in young adult hood just sets up unnecessary expectations.

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I can see the pros and cons to either approach. Luckily they are both frugal and conservative in their spending. The question was to spend time on college/school/job-search related work or take up a small job. I felt that we could afford it and so time was better spent in finding a job and preparing for that (for the son). The con is that learning about money comes a bit later. He's found a nice paying offer, and is in the conversation with Google (team matching stage) also so the gamble paid off.

Yes, I think you may be right, our goal was to give the kids a good education as possible, and let them earn their own luxuries. And allow them some backup to take the right career risks.

txaggie_08 said:

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We have a UTMA for our daughter which she'll get when she's 21. Going to have to figure out how to talk to her about that the responsibility so she doesn't blow it all.

I'd expect it to be around $50k or so when she's 21. Hopefully she'll be smart with it and use it for a home down payment or something. We'll see where things stand in 12 years, but could also use some of it to purchase her first car.

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Your comment made me remember a conversation I overheard at the barber shop a year ago. Girl was talking about her wedding. Her dad gave her the choice of a huge extravaganza wedding or a house to start her family. She opted for the wedding. Her quote: " Boy ,was I dumb"

My kids are in their 20s. We put a spreadsheet together for them that shows where the money is but not the amounts, along monthly bills, estate attorney, etc.