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Debt lien question

2,139 Views | 15 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by jagvocate
Dr T and the Women
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I did a loan to a business that was supposed to pay 15% simple interest. It is secured by a real estate asset.
There was one primary investor who has first priority and then I am in a secondary position with several others.

The contract reads that if they default on payment the rate increases to 18%.

There are also equity investors in the company. They currently have an offer to sell the real estate and wrote that they will offer the debt investors:
-either payment over 5y
-convert to equity

They also plan to pay capital back to the equity investors with the same sale. This makes no sense to me as equity is always subordinate to debt.

I sent a message to the principal already but have not heard anything.

What should I do? Try to place a lien on the property?
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jja79
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Not an attorney so don't put any stock in this. You say your position is secured by real property. That sounds like you have an existing 2nd lien. You obviously are involved in a venture that isn't bankable given the terms you outlined. You priced the risk into the rate. Sounds like a when not if it goes bad deal from the start.

I'd be calling a good attorney right now.
TMoney2007
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jja79 said:

Not an attorney so don't put any stock in this. You say you're position is secured by real property. That sounds like you have an existing 2nd lien. You obviously are involved in a venture that isn't bankable given the terms you outlined. You priced the risk into the rate. Sounds like a when not if it goes bad deal from the start.

I'd be calling a good attorney right now.
Yeah,... They're trying to convert a debt secured by real property into an unsecured debt. I wouldn't allow that especially not at anything close to the same rate. I wouldn't allow repayment over 5 years when they will have cash in hand after the sale of the property.

Lawyer is what you need.
cab559
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if done properly, you'd need to release the lien on the RE for them to sell the asset.
Dr T and the Women
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the loan documents say secured by but I doubt there is a real lien placed. anybody have a good lawyer they recommend for this type of work?
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FourAggies
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Not a lawyer, but I believe that if the secured interest was not filed/recorded, then you probably don't have a secured interest. The filing serves as a notice to future lenders or buyers. You'll want to check with your lawyer to see if you can cure that at this date.
Agilaw
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What do you specifically mean when you say "secured by a real estate asset"?
Bitter Old Man
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If you didnt file a 2nd Lien Deed of Trust with the county, then you dont have a lien on the real estate, and if they didnt sign a Deed of Trust, then you cant get a perfected lien on real estate regardless of what your note says. Do you have any kind of security agreement? If so, it should say how proceeds are disbursed. If not, your loan is unsecured.

"Equity" is only subordinate to unsecured debt if there is a covenant in the loan that says so, but you would have to sue to enforce. Otherwise, unless your loan is in default then they can do whatever they want.

You could maybe file an injunction to stop the sale and become a pain in the ass for them and make them do what you want. But, a judge is going to go with what the documents say. If your loan docuements state that they were supposed to give you a 2nd lien on real estate, then you MIGHT get a judge to go along with you.

If I were an assole in their shoes, I would sell the property get the proceeds and assets out of the company and then put the entity into bankruptcy. If you dont have a personal guarantee, then you'd be f'd.

*this is not legal advice. You know I'm not a lawyer.
Buck Compton
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Bitter Old Man said:

If you didnt file a 2nd Lien Deed of Trust with the county, then you dont have a lien on the real estate, and if they didnt sign a Deed of Trust, then you cant get a perfected lien on real estate regardless of what your note says. Do you have any kind of security agreement? If so, it should say how proceeds are disbursed. If not, your loan is unsecured.

"Equity" is only subordinate to unsecured debt if there is a covenant in the loan that says so, but you would have to sue to enforce. Otherwise, unless your loan is in default then they can do whatever they want.

You could maybe file an injunction to stop the sale and become a pain in the ass for them and make them do what you want. But, a judge is going to go with what the documents say. If your loan docuements state that they were supposed to give you a 2nd lien on real estate, then you MIGHT get a judge to go along with you.

If I were an assole in their shoes, I would sell the property get the proceeds and assets out of the company and then put the entity into bankruptcy. If you dont have a personal guarantee, then you'd be f'd.

*this is not legal advice. You know I'm not a lawyer.
Thats not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
itsyourboypookie
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Foreclose, assuming you have a DOT that allows you to do so, take over the first lien note, liquidate the real estate or lease it.
itsyourboypookie
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Dr T and the Women said:

the loan documents say secured by but I doubt there is a real lien placed. anybody have a good lawyer they recommend for this type of work?


No DOT, no lien.

Can due and get a 'lien', but would be expensive.
Dr T and the Women
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itsyourboypookie said:

Dr T and the Women said:

Here is the verbiage.

The appraisal at the time had more than enough equity to cover my note



Security. The complete payment and performance of the debt evidenced by this Note

shall be secured by all of the items and types of property described in the Pledge Agreement xxxx, as Class A Members of the Company (the "Class A
Members"), and Holder, dated effective on even date herewith (the "Pledge Agreement").
4. Participation Right. As additional consideration, Holder shall receive a participation right
in the net revenue due and payable to , LLC (the "Participation Right") pursuant to that
certain Participation Agreement between LLC and Holder (the "Participation
Agreement"). Holder hereby accepts the Participation Right, subject to the terms and conditions set forth
herein and the Participation Agreement.
5. Default; Remedies. An "Event of Default" shall constitute the occurrence of any one or
more other following conditions: (i) the Company's breach of any term or condition of this Note, the
Pledge Agreement, or any other note issued under the Note Series, including, but not limited to, any
failure to pay any payment of principal or interest as and when due in accordance with the terms of this
Note or any other note issued under the Note Series; (ii) any representation or warranty made by the
Company to the Holder under this Note or the Pledge Agreement proves to have been false in any material

2
respect when made or furnished the Company (iii) the sale of substantially all of the assets or in excess of
fifty percent (50%) of the interests of the Company; (iv) the merger, consolidation, or reorganization of
the Company where the Company does not own substantially all of the issued and outstanding voting
stock or other ownership interests of the merged, consolidated, or reorganized entity; (v) the Company
shall (a) apply for or consent to the appointment of a receiver, trustee, liquidator, or custodian of itself or
of all or a substantial part of its property, (b) admit in writing its inability to pay its debts generally as they
mature, (c) make a general assignment for the benefit of its or any of its creditors, (d) be dissolved or
liquidated or (e) commence a voluntary case or other proceeding seeking liquidation, reorganization, or
other relief with respect to itself or its debts under any bankruptcy, insolvency, or other similar law now
or hereafter in effect or consent to any such relief or to the appointment of or taking possession of its
property by any official in an involuntary case or other proceeding commenced against it; or (vi)
proceedings for the appointment of a receiver, trustee, liquidator, or custodian of the Company, or of all
or a substantial part of the property thereof, or an involuntary case or other proceedings seeking
liquidation, reorganization, or other relief with respect to the Company or the debts thereof under any
bankruptcy, insolvency, or other similar law now or hereafter in effect shall be commenced and an order
for relief entered or such proceeding shall not be dismissed or discharged within sixty (60) days of
commencement. Upon the occurrence of any Event of Default all accrued and unpaid interest and
principal on this Note shall become immediately due and payable and the Note shall bear interest at a
default interest rate of eighteen percent (18%) per annum until paid in full.
6. Waivers by Company. Company waives demand, presentment, notice of protest, notice
of demand, dishonor, diligence in collection and notices of intention to accelerate maturity in connection
with an Event of Default. Any such acceleration shall be automatically effectuated by Company by making
an entry to such effect in its records, in which event the unpaid balance on this Note shall become
immediately due and payable without demand or notice.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
TMoney2007
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You might want to remove the company name from that.
Gramercy Riffs
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Agilaw said:

What do you specifically mean when you say "secured by a real estate asset"?


It sounds like it means, "I'm not a lender but I figured it can't be too difficult, and I'm about to get a lesson on how to perfect liens."
Dr T and the Women
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Gramercy Riffs said:

Agilaw said:

What do you specifically mean when you say "secured by a real estate asset"?


It sounds like it means, "I'm not a lender but I figured it can't be too difficult, and I'm about to get a lesson on how to perfect liens."
lol... yes lots of fancy words in the documents I have make it so : )
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
jagvocate
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If you're loaning money at 15% you can afford an attorney.
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