Considering developing 30 +/- acres into a "sports park"/recreational facility, to include baseball, softball, and soccer fields as a purely private venture, with no public (read municipal) involvement. Where is this being done currently in Texas, that I might use as a guide?

How would you fund it, run it, clean it, maintain it, staff it?

12thMan9 said:

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How would you fund it, run it, clean it, maintain it, staff it?

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I'm all ears...looking to lease/sell the real estate. Not owner/operator.

There's a local need/demand. Looking to explore existing business models.

the only big one I know of in our area is closing. Think they had a few instances with fights (and even a couple shootings), This is South Houston of course.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/the-end-of-an-era-houston-sportsplex-locking-its-gates-for-good-after-47-years/285-3d1d40c0-6597-4a48-9605-d989fe0fd3fc

Diggity said:

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the only big one I know of in our area is closing. Think they had a few instances with fights (and even a couple shootings), This is South Houston of course.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/the-end-of-an-era-houston-sportsplex-locking-its-gates-for-good-after-47-years/285-3d1d40c0-6597-4a48-9605-d989fe0fd3fc

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Technically, this is still considered SW Houston. But, your point is still valid. I played at this place under both owners, damn I'm old.

If BoerneGator is in Boerne, are you looking b/w I-10 & 281 or other side of 10? Is the place off I-10 you can see from the highway always booked?

Gotta believe land prices are going to be such that ownership would want that running 24/7/363. More weather to contend with there than here in Houston, maybe an indoor/outdoor option? My thoughts are baseball heavy here, not thinking football or kickball.

NE gets the other 10%.

BoerneGator said:

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Considering developing 30 +/- acres into a "sports park"/recreational facility, to include baseball, softball, and soccer fields as a purely private venture, with no public (read municipal) involvement. Where is this being done currently in Texas, that I might use as a guide?

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What part of the state are you considering? Sports turf or grass?

Big League Dreams is similar to that, except that the local municipalities own the land and lease it to the operator.

BLD has a new ownership group after the old defaulted on a few contracts.

https://communityimpact.com/houston/bay-area/parks-recreation/2021/09/19/play-ball-big-league-dreams-to-reopen-by-december-alleviate-some-demand-for-sports-fields/

I am certain you've put more time and thought I to this idea than I ever have; however, I am not sure how a privately owned and operated venture such as this would be profitable. The capital outlay for infrastructure along with ongoing maintenance would be a killer. Could your complex's usage fees determined by land purchased at current values along with improvements put in at all time highs due to current logistical situation compete with current facilities?

Howdy Dammit said:

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City of round rock opened a 14 million dollar sports complex. City of cedar park is following suit. This is a bad business venture when a city can put you out of business in a blink. Why pay when it's "free". And what people are willing to pay for private isnt enough to fund it.

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You have obviously never used city or county owned facilities. NOTHING is free.

Just sent you a pm. Can be done but a lot depends on site variables and market study.

Look at Scrapyard Sports in the Woodlands area.

Look at Performance Indoor Training in DFW. Name implies indoor sports but they have several locations and only one has true indoor facilities (others have a facility but super limited capabilities). They are tailored to soccer (mostly).

Thanks for the replies input. Location is on I-10 north of Boerne. I'm only looking at it from a landlord role. It's not my idea, but I like it, and want to get informed on the potential.

Looked into doing it in B/CS. Could not make it work. You are basically just looking at a long-term land play. The complex itself will be extremely difficult to make highly profitable.

There exists an interesting mix of facilities around the state. Some exclusive soccer fields. Some exclusive ball parks w/batting cages. Some indoor facilities. Needless to say, each have different investments in both land and improvements. Many more questions than answers at this point.

BoerneGator said:

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Thanks for the replies input. Location is on I-10 north of Boerne. I'm only looking at it from a landlord role. It's not my idea, but I like it, and want to get informed on the potential.

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I would find a league to commit to playing there before I built anything. A local soccer league I know has land and they are trying to build fields to lessen their dependence on other people's fields. I can give you some figures on what it costs to build turf v natural grass and usage figures for both. I've been trying to help them out and have done some research on it.

Look at "Field of Dreams" in Bee Cave/Lake Travis area near Austin

I would welcome that info. PM it if you prefer.

Checked it out. Nice facility, and likely similar to what is desired here. Thanks!

From what I've seen, you need a large affluent population nearby that has moved away from a major city to escape the crime and big city problems (Dallas and Houston suburbs). The major cities are too busy with murders and homelessness to spend any money on their parks. That creates a huge need. Houston and San Antonio have fewer of the "city" suburbs than Dallas (Allen, Arlington, Plano, etc.), and all those people don't have affluent city-suburbs to build sports palaces for them.

Boerne seems to me like there's not enough people there yet and it doesn't have big city problems yet. If I were looking to try a sports park in the area, I'd target the outskirts of NEISD in San Antonio. The baseball ones on the outskirts of Houston have become extremely profitable since the proliferation of club baseball teams (one guy paid off his land and construction costs in 3 years) and is raking in almost pure profits now.

BoerneGator said:

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Checked it out. Nice facility, and likely similar to what is desired here. Thanks!

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This going to be near your house or other peoples houses ?


Field of dreams looks nice but the actual complex is another story if you are there in person. As of a few months ago they still don't have functioning bathrooms and the fields are designed so close together that I witnessed multiple people get hit by foul balls which to me would be a huge liability factor in itself. Also the neighbors aren't to happy about the light and noise that their country land no longer provides them as well as the constant traffic.

I chuckled...

i know an organization that would love a long term lease just need 2 full size pitches

Send em my way. Still have my #?

Howdy Dammit said:

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City of round rock opened a 14 million dollar sports complex. City of cedar park is following suit. This is a bad business venture when a city can put you out of business in a blink. Why pay when it's "free". And what people are willing to pay for private isnt enough to fund it.

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Those fields aren't free. They charge tournament directors and teams for field use. We practice at Northeast Metro (Travis County Park) and pay a lot each fall and spring for practices. RR is no different.

Look up Field of Dreams in Dripping Springs, Triple Play Sportsplex in Georgetown, Blackstar in Kyle and Austin Sun Devils in Driftwood. All of these places bank money on Perfect Game tournaments and practice fees. TPS just sold to Gateway for like $6M.

Anyway, if you are going to do this, use turf. The tournaments here in the Austin area are always needing extra fields. Turf usually wins out since it can be used after bad weather as well. Make sure the bathrooms are good and there is shade as well.

You might consider working with an athletic apparel company to help anchor the development with a retail store as well as a restaurant or two. Anything you can do to help bring more people to the development and keep them around for longer periods of time. If I could show up for my kids baseball tournament and not HAVE to leave all day to get lunch, buy new laces for his cleats or an athletic support that fell out of his bag at home that would be a reason to want to play more games there.

Sounds like the OP's plan is getting rents out of a land play while it appreciates and is eventually sold to a developer (or they develop it themselves).

If that's the case, you don't want to spend a bunch on permanent structures.

12thMan9 said:

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Howdy Dammit said:

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City of round rock opened a 14 million dollar sports complex. City of cedar park is following suit. This is a bad business venture when a city can put you out of business in a blink. Why pay when it's "free". And what people are willing to pay for private isnt enough to fund it.

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You have obviously never used city or county owned facilities. NOTHING is free.

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Which is why "free" was in quotations. A basketball court can only service 10 folks at a time but cost/sf is huge. To run this as a private business is extremely hard to do. Which is why the vast majority of sports complexes have to be publicly funded. The cost per user just doesn't work.

JP76 said:

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BoerneGator said:

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Checked it out. Nice facility, and likely similar to what is desired here. Thanks!

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This going to be near your house or other peoples houses ?


Field of dreams looks nice but the actual complex is another story if you are there in person. As of a few months ago they still don't have functioning bathrooms and the fields are designed so close together that I witnessed multiple people get hit by foul balls which to me would be a huge liability factor in itself. Also the neighbors aren't to happy about the light and noise that their country land no longer provides them as well as the constant traffic.

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The fields are really nice and the rest of the complex is kind of a work in progress. Yes, we have played dozens of tournament games out there and my mother-in-law has been hit twice. You need to keep your head on a swivel. With that said, some netting or sunshades would fix a lot over the walkways.

The bathrooms and permanent concessions is coming along. The women don't like the portable toilets, but there is such a massive amount, I have never had to wait on one. Better than some places with a tiny two stall, actual bathroom.

They do need padding on the massive rock walls in the outfield. I have heard rumors that a serious injury happened a few months back, but didn't see it.

What can't be denied, is even with the flaws, this complex rakes in the cash all year long.

Scrap Yard in Spring, Premier Baseball in Tomball and Baseball USA in Greater Houston area. Newest one is The Diamonds at Daily Park in Rosenberg.

Find out where Perfect Game, Five Tool, USSSA select baseball is playing in your market.

Most club soccer in greater Houston is played in Harris County parks. The large clubs seem to control their use.

Find out what clubs are active in your market.

Profit!

Oh, and you'll need a **** ton of parking...

Gator92 said:

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Scrap Yard in Spring, Premier Baseball in Tomball and Baseball USA in Greater Houston area. Newest one is The Diamonds at Daily Park in Rosenberg.

Find out where Perfect Game, Five Tool, USSSA select baseball is playing in your market.

Most club soccer in greater Houston is played in Harris County parks. The large clubs seem to control their use.

Find out what clubs are active in your market.

Profit!

Oh, and you'll need a **** ton of parking...

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I really like Baseball USA a lot -- outside of the gunshots we hear on occasion out there.

Anyway, you can go to PG or USSSA and the find the directors for the areas you're interested in. They will be able to tell you how they are doing on fields and how much they would use you moving forward.

We looked very seriously at doing same in Boerne before the pandemic. There are at least several sport-specific immediate needs. Interesting.

Side bar: I wish the city had addressed some instead of the monstrosity of a city hall building.