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Tenant/ Landlord question

2,702 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Sea Speed
Agnlaw
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6:38p, 5/23/22
Quick question……. Tenant signed a lease in agreement that he is responsible for maintenance of yard, shrubs, trees etc……. If a severe storm knocks down a large tree, who is responsible for removal of debris and remains of the tree?? Is this technically considered maintenance?
TIA
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SteveBott
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6:41p, 5/23/22
AG
Owner. That's not normal maintenance
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Matsui
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6:58p, 5/23/22
AG
Vote # 2 - owner
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QuantumNoodle
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7:14p, 5/23/22
owner
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hopeandrealchange
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7:28p, 5/23/22
Owner.
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Red Pear Realty
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8:30p, 5/23/22
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AG
Here's what the TAR lease says:







I'm not an attorney, but to me, if B(3)(b) is checked, the lease says the tenant is responsible for Yard Maintenance such as clearing debris, including a downed tree.

Now.... that is what the lease says. If I were the landlord, I'd take care of the tree myself.
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AggiePlaya
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 9:01p, 5/23/22
AG
Red Pear Realty said:
Here's what the TAR lease says:







I'm not an attorney, but to me, if B(3)(b) is checked, the lease says the tenant is responsible for Yard Maintenance such as clearing debris, including a downed tree.

Now.... that is what the lease says. If I were the landlord, I'd take care of the tree myself.
Really? B3B said downed trees are considered maintenance?
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to AggiePlaya • 9:04p, 5/23/22
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Read the definition of "Yard Maintenance" in B2
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SteveBott
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9:14p, 5/23/22
AG
Maintenance is normal repeatedly actions. Act of God is not normal. Also a downed tree requires special tools such as chain saws. It be a cold day in hell when a tenant cuts up a tree. Unless you paid them
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AggiePlaya
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In reply to SteveBott • 9:24p, 5/23/22
AG
SteveBott said:
Maintenance is normal repeatedly actions. Act of God is not normal. Also a downed tree requires special tools such as chain saws. It be a cold day in hell when a tenant cuts up a tree. Unless you paid them
Exactly. The fact that this red pear "realtor" thinks an act of God is maintenance is why realtors get a bad rep
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to SteveBott • 9:35p, 5/23/22
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SteveBott said:
Maintenance is normal repeatedly actions. Act of God is not normal. Also a downed tree requires special tools such as chain saws. It be a cold day in hell when a tenant cuts up a tree. Unless you paid them


Contracts sometimes define words, and when they do, by signing the contract, both parties have agreed to that definition. In this case, "Maintain the yard" is defined to include "removing debris from the yard". I posted this to show y'all that in the case of the TAR lease, it doesn't matter who you think should be responsible, because the lease already tells you.
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to AggiePlaya • 9:35p, 5/23/22
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AggiePlaya said:
SteveBott said:
Maintenance is normal repeatedly actions. Act of God is not normal. Also a downed tree requires special tools such as chain saws. It be a cold day in hell when a tenant cuts up a tree. Unless you paid them
Exactly. The fact that this red pear "realtor" thinks an act of God is maintenance is why realtors get a bad rep


It doesn't matter what I think or what you think. It matters what the lease says.
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AggiePlaya
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 9:39p, 5/23/22
AG
Red Pear Realty said:
AggiePlaya said:
SteveBott said:
Maintenance is normal repeatedly actions. Act of God is not normal. Also a downed tree requires special tools such as chain saws. It be a cold day in hell when a tenant cuts up a tree. Unless you paid them
Exactly. The fact that this red pear "realtor" thinks an act of God is maintenance is why realtors get a bad rep


It doesn't matter what I think or what you think. It matters what the lease says.
A condescending reply from a "realtor"...color me shocked. Get an attorney to confirm your assertion that an act of God falls under "maintenance" please
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to AggiePlaya • 10:07p, 5/23/22
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I'm stating that it doesn't matter what a bunch of people on the internet say. What matters is what your lease says, and in the case of the current TAR lease, which probably 90% of single family landlords in Texas use, a downed tree is the responsibility of the tenant per the lease, if P17 (B)(3)(b) is checked. Again, would I as a landlord demand a tenant remedy something like that? No.

Know your lease.
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ATM9000
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 11:13p, 5/23/22
AG
I don't think you understand what debris is. In most business and legal definitions, a fallen tree would not chin the bar as being defined as debris.
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SteveBott
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11:24p, 5/23/22
AG
A downed tree is an act of God, not debree mr landlord.

Debree is a Walmart plastic bag blown on my property.
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Buck Compton
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In reply to AggiePlaya • 11:45p, 5/23/22
AG
AggiePlaya said:
Red Pear Realty said:
AggiePlaya said:
SteveBott said:
Maintenance is normal repeatedly actions. Act of God is not normal. Also a downed tree requires special tools such as chain saws. It be a cold day in hell when a tenant cuts up a tree. Unless you paid them
Exactly. The fact that this red pear "realtor" thinks an act of God is maintenance is why realtors get a bad rep


It doesn't matter what I think or what you think. It matters what the lease says.
A condescending reply from a "realtor"...color me shocked. Get an attorney to confirm your assertion that an act of God falls under "maintenance" please
Why are you so up in arms and hostile about this? Have something against Red Pear?

It wasn't condescending. He's reading the lease contract. Maintenance is defined and includes clearing debris. You only need to define "debris", whether due to act of God or not. The word "normal" was not in the maintenance description at all. You're inserting that word yourself.
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Buck Compton
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In reply to SteveBott • 11:48p, 5/23/22
AG
SteveBott said:
A downed tree is an act of God, not debree mr landlord.

Debree is a Walmart plastic bag blown on my property.
Act of God or not, defining the word debris (not debree) is all that has to be defined to answer this question by the terms of the lease. There are many legal definitions, but I have found several references by insurance companies to "tree debris", all of which include fallen trees. Here's one reference (albeit not a legal doc): https://www.allstate.com/resources/home-insurance/tree-falls-house-damage

It also has nothing to do with what a good landlord would actually do to a tenant.

Only exception will be to 18-c-1-a if the tree fell due to negligence on the part of the landlord.
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SteveBott
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11:58p, 5/23/22
AG
And you need attorneys and judges to define the words of said contract, and you get to pay for that final definition. And a tree is down the months or years it takes to define that contract.

Or landlord can pay 500-1000 or so, I just did this, to clean it up and move on.

As a tenant I'd tell the owner to pound sand.
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Buck Compton
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In reply to SteveBott • 12:01a, 5/24/22
AG
SteveBott said:
And you need attorneys and judges to define the words of said contract, and you get to pay for that final definition. And a tree is down the months or years it takes to define that contract.

Or landlord can pay 500-1000 or so, I just did this, to clean it up and move on.

As a tenant I'd tell the owner to pound sand.
Dear God, dude. Even Red Pear said what the landlord SHOULD do is different than what the lease technically may require. NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH WHAT WE WOULD ALL DO AS A GOOD LANDLORD.

But the lease really reads very heavily in the landlord's favor here by my reading. The only thing open to interpretation is "debris". The rest is pretty straight forward.
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SteveBott
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In reply to Buck Compton • 12:05a, 5/24/22
AG
Then why are you arguing? The right thing to do is clean up your property not argue over a lease, which we have not seen posted, and move on.

Who cares what the definition is. Owner needs to clean it up.
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Buck Compton
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In reply to SteveBott • 12:11a, 5/24/22
AG
SteveBott said:
Then why are you arguing? The right thing to do is clean up your property not argue over a lease, which we have not seen posted, and move on.

Who cares what the definition is. Owner needs to clean it up.
I don't even know what you're saying here… we're talking in hypothetical about the legal definition in TAR 2001. Heck, the OP appears to be a lawyer or studying it. Could just be a final exam question.

I'm out. You and AggiePlaya are a cranky bunch tonight.
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Agnlaw
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12:29a, 5/24/22
OP is tenant dealing with difficult landlord. Even if tenant agrees to clean up mess and debris in the yard, the tall damaged tree trunk remains…… which seems an unsafe condition that should be dealt with by the landlord.
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to Agnlaw • 6:51a, 5/24/22
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Agnlaw said:
OP is tenant dealing with difficult landlord.



This is why it matters what the lease says. There's a lot of good people on TexAgs, but there are also a lot of bad people in the world.
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DannyDuberstein
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8:33a, 5/24/22
AG
If removing a tree is "maintenance", then I hope the landlord doesn't mind checking in to find other trees cut down too, or at least topped. Gotta "maintain".
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SECond2noneAgs
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 9:28a, 5/24/22
AG
DannyDuberstein said:
If removing a tree is "maintenance", then I hope the landlord doesn't mind checking in to find other trees cut down too, or at least topped. Gotta "maintain".

Lol. When the landlord comes and finds the 100 year old oak tree in the front yard cut down for firewood, the tenant can point to P17 (B)(3)(b) and say "sorry, you should've read the lease agreement."
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CS78
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In reply to SECond2noneAgs • 10:31a, 5/24/22
SECond2noneAgs said:
DannyDuberstein said:
If removing a tree is "maintenance", then I hope the landlord doesn't mind checking in to find other trees cut down too, or at least topped. Gotta "maintain".

Lol. When the landlord comes and finds the 100 year old oak tree in the front yard cut down for firewood, the tenant can point to P17 (B)(3)(b) and say "sorry, you should've read the lease agreement."


I had some tenants remove all the landscaping from the flower beds. Of course that wasn't as bad as the college girls that completely removed the chain link fence from the back yard.

And people wonder why they have deposits withheld.
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dubi
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12:57p, 5/24/22
AG
I'm a landlord and would have removed the tree.
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Omperlodge
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2:26p, 5/24/22
Stuff like this always reminds me of how much I hated being a tenant. For instance, when my landlord and I got in a near fistfight over the maintenance of the yard. He said that I wasn't taking care of it.

Picture from the day of the instance in case he tried to hit my deposit.




I wish I had a picture from when we moved in. It looks like crap.
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p_bubel
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In reply to Omperlodge • 2:51p, 5/24/22
dallasiteinsa02 said:
Stuff like this always reminds me of how much I hated being a tenant. For instance, when my landlord and I got in a near fistfight over the maintenance of the yard. He said that I wasn't taking care of it.

Picture from the day of the instance in case he tried to hit my deposit.




I wish I had a picture from when we moved in. It looks like crap.

Had a landlord in college station show up a day early while I was moving out, offered to help by dusting the baseboards, taking the trash out and vacuuming.

She later sent me an intemized bill for her "help." She even charged me for taking the garbage can to the curb later that week. (Her daughter was already living in the place by then)

****ing people, man.
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TxAG#2011
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2:55p, 5/24/22
If that's considered "maintenance" then I'd be sending the landlord an email every other day *****ing about every loose screw in the house
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Agilaw
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4:31p, 5/24/22
AG
The case of the Dead Tree and the Debris - Rock The Good Ag - Tenant vs. Evil Saban - Landlord, 12 S.W.3d 1212 (Tex. App. College Station 2022). Summary of Case - A tree falls in the woods, but nobody hears it - or maybe they did - who knows? The fallen tree is on land leased by Rock, the good Ag. Evil Saban, the landlord, notices said tree has fallen and tells Rock he needs to move "them there debris" or he's gonna tell on him. Rock says "that ain't debris" and gives Saban a one finger salute. Saban is pissed and goes to the media whining about Rock not following the rules. Holding: the court finds that Saban is Evil personified and finds for Rock The Good Ag. Judgment in favor of Rock The Good Ag. All costs charged against Evil Saban and the State of Alabama. The media interview Rock after the court renders judgment. Rock is ecstatic with the judgment and gives a hearty "Gig Em", but he is ticked because he knows Evil Saban and his Alabama supporters won't pony up to pay the judgment.

In dicta, the poster of this article agrees with the judgment that debris as stated in the lease doesn't include the removal of a fallen tree. But, that's what courts are for, aren't they?
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Captain Winky
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In reply to AggiePlaya • 3:16p, 5/26/22
Condescending? Lighten up, Francis.
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Sea Speed
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7:54p, 5/26/22
AG
How any swinging dixk could find what red pear said as condescending is beyond me. Just wow.
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