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New roof and insurance question.

3,652 Views | 12 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Jason_Roofer
Yesterday
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AG
We had some good hail and wind damage done to our house last spring. Our roofer was able to get a full roof replacement from Liberty Mutual. I however think they're charging way too much. In fact I got a quote from another company for about 35% less apples to apples.

My question and assertion is that the original roof company is charging way more due to the claim. Am I allowed to take the insurance money and hire a cheaper contractor? Not interested in committing insurance fraud. I know I've taken auto insurance payouts before and fixed it myself but that was 20 years ago and not home owners insurance. Thanks.
Jason_Roofer
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To answer your question, the answer is no in nearly all situations.

Your roofers estimate is largely irrelevant once insurance has agreed to a scope of work and provided an estimate. If this is going through insurance, then he should max out whatever they are paying and Load your roof up with all features and bells and whistles he can within the confines of the carriers estimate and supplement as needed.

You can use a cheaper roofer. You will not see a penny of the extra money if you do, and you will do nothing but save your carrier a lot of money and possibly get a cheaper quality roof.

That's the long and short of it. Unfortunately, you cannot legally pocket the difference unless you are talking about the ACV portion and it's extremely rare to get enough from that to do much of anything.

This is where roofers differ. If I can do a roof for 12,000 but get an estimate from insurance for 18,000, I'm going to upgrade shingles, upgrade hip and ridge, upgrade accessories and ventilation if I can and even absorb extra items I would normally charge for and I'll take a reasonable profit for it. Some roofers will do the bare minimum and then collect a ton of profit. I work for the homeowner and am in no way interested in putting on a sub par roof just to save the carrier some money. My purpose is to do the best roof job I can for the amount the carrier has agreed to and argue it if it's not enough to do a quality job.

The homeowner pays the same deductible. Choose your roofer wisely. Crappy roofs bill the same amount to insurance as a nicer roof. The difference is whether you benefit from the better roof or the roofer benefits from the higher profit margin.

If you would like me to explain in person, you can shoot me an email and we can use your scope of work and your numbers to explain what you're asking and what is what. Happy to help out with that for free so you know what you are dealing with so you can make the best decision for you.
Yesterday
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AG
Jason_InfinityRoofer said:

To answer your question, the answer is no in nearly all situations.

Your roofers estimate is largely irrelevant once insurance has agreed to a scope of work and provided an estimate. If this is going through insurance, then he should max out whatever they are paying and Load your roof up with all features and bells and whistles he can within the confines of the carriers estimate and supplement as needed.

You can use a cheaper roofer. You will not see a penny of the extra money if you do, and you will do nothing but save your carrier a lot of money and possibly get a cheaper quality roof.

That's the long and short of it. Unfortunately, you cannot legally pocket the difference unless you are talking about the ACV portion and it's extremely rare to get enough from that to do much of anything.

This is where roofers differ. If I can do a roof for 12,000 but get an estimate from insurance for 18,000, I'm going to upgrade shingles, upgrade hip and ridge, upgrade accessories and ventilation if I can and even absorb extra items I would normally charge for and I'll take a reasonable profit for it. Some roofers will do the bare minimum and then collect a ton of profit. I work for the homeowner and am in no way interested in putting on a sub par roof just to save the carrier some money. My purpose is to do the best roof job I can for the amount the carrier has agreed to and argue it if it's not enough to do a quality job.

The homeowner pays the same deductible. Choose your roofer wisely. Crappy roofs bill the same amount to insurance as a nicer roof. The difference is whether you benefit from the better roof or the roofer benefits from the higher profit margin.

If you would like me to explain in person, you can shoot me an email and we can use your scope of work and your numbers to explain what you're asking and what is what. Happy to help out with that for free so you know what you are dealing with so you can make the best decision for you.
Thanks for the explanation. Guess I'll need to find out exactly what "extras" company A is bringing. Not interested in pocketing cash(illegally) but I would prefer "extras" instead of them pocketing a larger margin of profit.
Diggity
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AG
ask for the clearcoat and rust proofing
fka ftc
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You always do a great job with these questions. As a homeowner, I'm glad there are guys like you in the business.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
htxag09
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AG
fka ftc
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It's a bit more nuanced than that. Do you really want the cheapest roof? Outside of the foundation, the roof is critical to the function of the structure of the home and failure of the roof can be extremely expensive for the homeowner, but more important for the insurance company.

They are willing to pay for better quality (supposedly), better materials, and with some built in extra as typically a hailstorm in a certain area will result in localized price hikes. Broader storms like hurricanes drive up the overall industry costs.

There are plenty of issues with less than trustworthy roofers and contractors. There were a lot more when HO could pocket some of the payout by negotiating between roofer and insurance. The result of that was fraud, abuse, and many a ****ty roof.

I think Jason provides a pretty above board, honest take and is happy to help fellow Ags in the process, whether they use his services or not.

I chime in at times as I have a couple of residential construction companies, including a home building business. I do not do any work related to insurance and my prices are set by contract. With no motivation to make more obey for insurance, for homeowner, or for myself, I try and give an unbiased but always honest take on this area.

I get the sentiment on insurance payouts, but Texas in particular got real effed up on this and we have what we have now, which is way better than how it used to work (better in most regards).
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
htxag09
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AG
nm; not getting involved in this anymore, carry on
fka ftc
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htxag09 said:

Obviously there is a difference in getting the lowest possible quote and comparing it to a reputable company.

If that's what you takeaway from my post you're missing the point. I'm talking comparing bids from the same company, same shingles, same underlayment, etc. They're 100% taking advantage of someone else paying the bill. I'm not saying they are just pocketing that upcharge. I am saying they are pocketing some, you absolutely cannot deny that. I'm questioning the value of these "top of the line materials." If they were truly that valuable in the durability of your roof they wouldn't be automatically removed as line items when a homeowner is paying out of pocket.


If the above is your point, I didn't miss it, just do not agree with it. See my previous post.

Yes, current process results in some pricing inefficiency. The alternative results in rampant fraud, abuse and more ****ty roofing companies and resulting roofs.

Also, there is an incentive for the insurance underwriter to NOT overpay for roofs nor to allow the funds to be expensed on inferior contractors, materials, workmanship, etc. It's not perfect, but its better than what was in place before.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
Jason_Roofer
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It might help to understand how the insurance company gets their numbers. They are generally a result of thousands of closed claims in the region that your claim is filed under. They are updated monthly. Sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down. During covid, costs outran the estimates in almost all cases. The price list is compiled from cheap roofers, expensive roofers, and everyone in between. Therefore, that estimate is a good guess on what that roof should really cost a roofer, including his profit margin.

I can say that a company like mine is going to be priced in the ball park of the insurance estimate. A mom and pop shop that runs a business out of their home is going to be a bit less. We have a staff with departments that handle warranties, billing, invoices, ordering, scheduling, legal, and on top of that we have a 5 year warranty on work and labor. All of that adds to the cost. A small roofer may have one or two people to do it all. Nothing wrong with that, its just a different of size and necessity.

You carrier isn't necessarily paying for 'upgrades'. They are paying to replace like for like. For me, however, if you have a 3-tab shingle, I can always and will always upgrade that to a 30 year shingle and stay in the constraints of what insurance estimated. So I do.

You can certainly pay a cheaper roofer and save your insurance carrier the excess money. Just make sure you are actually still getting a quality job from a quality company. Don't get caught up in the idea that if you save the insurance carrier $6,000, you somehow will be immune to higher premiums in 6 months. You will still get increases. We all do. Whether you replace your roof or not. That's why I always encourage just going with insurance and moving on with life.

Quote:

I'm talking comparing bids from the same company, same shingles, same underlayment, etc. They're 100% taking advantage of someone else paying the bill.

A small roofer will have a wide swing in out of pocket cost vs. an insurance deal. If I have to compete out of pocket, then price matters. I have to squeeze every penny out and make sure I am making enough profit to make it worth doing and I won't out compete a mom and pop shop. Ever. I can't for the reasons above.

When we price a roof, we use the same insurance price list as insurance. It is far better to estimate with the same price list and end up in the same ballpark. But to your point, if the insurance is paying the bill, and it costs you the same either way, there is no roofer that isn't going to charge the carrier less than the carrier already agreed to pay. It's business. The entire purpose of being in business is to turn a profit. Some jobs have low profit, some have high. Either way, the homeowner only needs to worry about the fact that it costs them the same and that they should be making sure they get everything they possibly can and the best possible job. When you go with a cheaper roofer, they may make a much larger profit, or even charge you less if you want, but for that same money, I can give warranties and offer all major brands of shingles with top tier warranties if you want because of our credentials.

It just comes down to what you value.
hunterjr81
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Yesterday said:

We had some good hail and wind damage done to our house last spring. Our roofer was able to get a full roof replacement from Liberty Mutual. I however think they're charging way too much. In fact I got a quote from another company for about 35% less apples to apples.

My question and assertion is that the original roof company is charging way more due to the claim. Am I allowed to take the insurance money and hire a cheaper contractor? Not interested in committing insurance fraud. I know I've taken auto insurance payouts before and fixed it myself but that was 20 years ago and not home owners insurance. Thanks.


Just use Jason Infinity Roofer. He knows his stuff and I personally had him put my new roof on a couple years ago. Got plenty of upgrades because insurance came back with pretty high numbers for replacement. I just paid my deductible.
aggies4life
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AG
Same price list as insurance….so going off xactimate pricing?
Jason_Roofer
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aggies4life said:

Same price list as insurance….so going off xactimate pricing?


Yes. If I do it cheaper, then I generally have to replace a higher quality item with a lower quality item and while it fits the outline of "good enough", I can do better.

If I do it for more, then the carrier will raise an eyebrow as to why I'm expensive.

I price with xactimate because I can use line items they understand AND I can add line items if they missed them. The only reason my estimate would come in a lot higher is if there is a line item difference, a measurement difference, or they are using a custom price list like some lowball warehouse price which they don't have to adhere to.

Also, when I price, I put everything in the list I know is required. Some carriers allow for them and some don't. I don't have time to figure out if the adjuster for farmers is going to allow for hip and ridge or starter course, or if he's going roll it into a waste factor so I put it I. If he denies it, then fine, but my customer gets a complete scope so they can lay it next to the insurance scope and we can hammer out differences. The customer can see apples to apples that way too.

But again, as long as the carrier is in the ballpark, we're good to go. The customer owes the deductible out of pocket. Any other shortages are my problem to deal with with the carrier. That's why my contracts list your deductible as the cost and not a final roof cost for the carrier. Their number may go up and down. Your number does not.
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