None of this happened because of what the PGAT did or didn't do. It happened because the royal family started slinging cash. Period. They are prepared to enter the game regardless of cost and no matter what the PGAT did, they were coming. As of today, all they've created is an overpaid rebirth of the European Tour with a few prominent PGAT members.RigsTx said:txaggie05 said:
I don't disagree that it's much less likely or would be much more shaky from a purely private money perspective. Unfortunately the Saudi fund exists in the market and was known to the market participants.
This is the crux of the issue for me. Everyone knew Saudi was going to try and enter the market. Norman had been trying to do it for years. If the PGAT has been proactive and made the changes they did prior to LIV getting off the ground maybe they could have staved off some of the defections. Instead the PGAT didn't take the threat seriously and now we have two leagues competing against each other to water down the product.
I don't think you can unring that bell unfortunately.
Saudi Golf League
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Last: 2 yr ago by AgLA06
Funky Winkerbean said:None of this happened because of what the PGAT did or didn't do. It happened because the royal family started slinging cash. Period. They are prepared to enter the game regardless of cost and no matter what the PGAT did, they were coming. As of today, all they've created is an overpaid rebirth of the European Tour with a few prominent PGAT members.RigsTx said:txaggie05 said:
I don't disagree that it's much less likely or would be much more shaky from a purely private money perspective. Unfortunately the Saudi fund exists in the market and was known to the market participants.
This is the crux of the issue for me. Everyone knew Saudi was going to try and enter the market. Norman had been trying to do it for years. If the PGAT has been proactive and made the changes they did prior to LIV getting off the ground maybe they could have staved off some of the defections. Instead the PGAT didn't take the threat seriously and now we have two leagues competing against each other to water down the product.
I don't think you can unring that bell unfortunately.
But the royal family approached the PGAT prior to creating LIV. The PGAT told them to pound sand. If the PGAT had been willing to work with Saudi, maybe we wouldn't be here.
That's frustrating to me. The LIV detractors want to blame Saudi for everything without recognizing any culpability of the PGAT.
I'm not pro-LIV. I watched the final round of Boston and it was entertaining. I also thought the ending of the Tour Championship was great.
Funky Winkerbean said:None of this happened because of what the PGAT did or didn't do. It happened because the royal family started slinging cash. Period. They are prepared to enter the game regardless of cost and no matter what the PGAT did, they were coming. As of today, all they've created is an overpaid rebirth of the European Tour with a few prominent PGAT members.RigsTx said:txaggie05 said:
I don't disagree that it's much less likely or would be much more shaky from a purely private money perspective. Unfortunately the Saudi fund exists in the market and was known to the market participants.
This is the crux of the issue for me. Everyone knew Saudi was going to try and enter the market. Norman had been trying to do it for years. If the PGAT has been proactive and made the changes they did prior to LIV getting off the ground maybe they could have staved off some of the defections. Instead the PGAT didn't take the threat seriously and now we have two leagues competing against each other to water down the product.
I don't think you can unring that bell unfortunately.
That's where a lot of us including former PGAT players disagree.
The PGAT botched all of this from a business standpoint. They failed to represent their players best interests by exploring all options, they angered a potential businesses partner with more resources to become a staunch opponent, and they've destroyed any credibility with the hypocrisy of suddenly copying lots of things the LIV is doing that they told their players it wasn't possible to do for years.
RigsTx said:Funky Winkerbean said:None of this happened because of what the PGAT did or didn't do. It happened because the royal family started slinging cash. Period. They are prepared to enter the game regardless of cost and no matter what the PGAT did, they were coming. As of today, all they've created is an overpaid rebirth of the European Tour with a few prominent PGAT members.RigsTx said:txaggie05 said:
I don't disagree that it's much less likely or would be much more shaky from a purely private money perspective. Unfortunately the Saudi fund exists in the market and was known to the market participants.
This is the crux of the issue for me. Everyone knew Saudi was going to try and enter the market. Norman had been trying to do it for years. If the PGAT has been proactive and made the changes they did prior to LIV getting off the ground maybe they could have staved off some of the defections. Instead the PGAT didn't take the threat seriously and now we have two leagues competing against each other to water down the product.
I don't think you can unring that bell unfortunately.
But the royal family approached the PGAT prior to creating LIV. The PGAT told them to pound sand. If the PGAT had been willing to work with Saudi, maybe we wouldn't be here.
That's frustrating to me. The LIV detractors want to blame Saudi for everything without recognizing any culpability of the PGAT.
I'm not pro-LIV. I watched the final round of Boston and it was entertaining. I also thought the ending of the Tour Championship was great.
By all accounts, they approached the Tour in the immediate aftermath of the Khashoggi murder. No one in their right mind would have entertained teaming up with them in that moment. It's revisionist history to suggest otherwise. I mean, see if you can find anything from that time where anyone was suggesting the Tour should team up with the Saudi Royal family.
Why can't people understand that the PGAT wants NOTHING to do with the royal family? Zilch. Nada. There is nothing to "work out".Quote:
But the royal family approached the PGAT prior to creating LIV. The PGAT told them to pound sand. If the PGAT had been willing to work with Saudi, maybe we wouldn't be here.
JCA1 said:RigsTx said:Funky Winkerbean said:None of this happened because of what the PGAT did or didn't do. It happened because the royal family started slinging cash. Period. They are prepared to enter the game regardless of cost and no matter what the PGAT did, they were coming. As of today, all they've created is an overpaid rebirth of the European Tour with a few prominent PGAT members.RigsTx said:txaggie05 said:
I don't disagree that it's much less likely or would be much more shaky from a purely private money perspective. Unfortunately the Saudi fund exists in the market and was known to the market participants.
This is the crux of the issue for me. Everyone knew Saudi was going to try and enter the market. Norman had been trying to do it for years. If the PGAT has been proactive and made the changes they did prior to LIV getting off the ground maybe they could have staved off some of the defections. Instead the PGAT didn't take the threat seriously and now we have two leagues competing against each other to water down the product.
I don't think you can unring that bell unfortunately.
But the royal family approached the PGAT prior to creating LIV. The PGAT told them to pound sand. If the PGAT had been willing to work with Saudi, maybe we wouldn't be here.
That's frustrating to me. The LIV detractors want to blame Saudi for everything without recognizing any culpability of the PGAT.
I'm not pro-LIV. I watched the final round of Boston and it was entertaining. I also thought the ending of the Tour Championship was great.
By all accounts, they approached the Tour in the immediate aftermath of the Khashoggi murder. No one in their right mind would have entertained teaming up with them in that moment. It's revisionist history to suggest otherwise. I mean, see if you can find anything from that time where anyone was suggesting the Tour should team up with the Saudi Royal family.
Fair point I wasn't sure about when the Saudis approached them.
That's great.
The second they presured the DP World Tour to break off discussions that was irrelevant.
The second they presured the DP World Tour to break off discussions that was irrelevant.
MARCH 8, 2022
Monahan takes the stage during an annual press conference at the Players Championship and delivers a response, particularly targeted at Mickelson. "We are and we always will be focused on legacy, not leverage," he says.
Then bans LIV golfers and is doing everything possible to stop OWGR points.
"We welcome good, healthy competition," he says. "The LIV Saudi golf league is not that. It's an irrational threat, one not concerned with the return on investment or true growth of the game."
Then copies the supposed exhibition league.
Monahan announces at the Tour Championship a complete revolution of the Tour schedule.
The Tour schedule will now include 12 "elevated" events at which the "top players" in the PIP are reasonably expected to compete. That comes in addition to the major championships and the Players Championship, ensuring the top players compete at the same time at least 17 times each year, and potentially more than that. How do you get them there? The purse sizes will average $20 million.
As for the other players on the PGA Tour, a $500,000 league minimum of earnings will be guaranteed by the PGA Tour, regardless of player performance. Also, for non-full members, a $5,000 stipend will be issued to players who missed the cut.
Monahan takes the stage during an annual press conference at the Players Championship and delivers a response, particularly targeted at Mickelson. "We are and we always will be focused on legacy, not leverage," he says.
Then bans LIV golfers and is doing everything possible to stop OWGR points.
"We welcome good, healthy competition," he says. "The LIV Saudi golf league is not that. It's an irrational threat, one not concerned with the return on investment or true growth of the game."
Then copies the supposed exhibition league.
Monahan announces at the Tour Championship a complete revolution of the Tour schedule.
The Tour schedule will now include 12 "elevated" events at which the "top players" in the PIP are reasonably expected to compete. That comes in addition to the major championships and the Players Championship, ensuring the top players compete at the same time at least 17 times each year, and potentially more than that. How do you get them there? The purse sizes will average $20 million.
As for the other players on the PGA Tour, a $500,000 league minimum of earnings will be guaranteed by the PGA Tour, regardless of player performance. Also, for non-full members, a $5,000 stipend will be issued to players who missed the cut.
Notable OWGR movement after Wentworth:
Gooch - 46 to 35
Westwood - 100 to 96
Horsfield - 95 to 88
Gooch - 46 to 35
Westwood - 100 to 96
Horsfield - 95 to 88
Don't know what to make of this. Gary Player, the paid Golf Saudi ambassador, puts LIV on blast.
https://golf.com/news/gary-player-blasts-liv-golf-signees/?amp=1
https://golf.com/news/gary-player-blasts-liv-golf-signees/?amp=1
Quote:
"I wouldn't take a billion dollars for my nine majors on both tours," Player said. "I worked hard. I had desire. I traveled the world. It was an education, I met wonderful people. How can you ever be a champion playing a tour with 54 holes and no cut?"
Quote:
"What sort of tour is that? Fifty-four holes, no cut, a team event nobody understands," Player said. "It's a tour for people who don't have confidence in their future. They don't have the confidence they can be winners."
Quote:
Talking about Cam Smith:
"Will he be able to realize this great dream of being a champion? I don't know," Player said. "I don't blame [Henrik] Stenson for going. He had no money, so he had to go. But this is a potential superstar. I think his advisors have given him the wrong advice."
PJYoung said:Quote:
"I wouldn't take a billion dollars for my nine majors on both tours," Player said. "I worked hard. I had desire. I traveled the world. It was an education, I met wonderful people. How can you ever be a champion playing a tour with 54 holes and no cut?"Quote:
"What sort of tour is that? Fifty-four holes, no cut, a team event nobody understands," Player said. "It's a tour for people who don't have confidence in their future. They don't have the confidence they can be winners."Quote:
Talking about Cam Smith:
"Will he be able to realize this great dream of being a champion? I don't know," Player said. "I don't blame [Henrik] Stenson for going. He had no money, so he had to go. But this is a potential superstar. I think his advisors have given him the wrong advice."
We all love Gary Player, but that's not a good look. If Phil or LIV player had said something like that the media would be having a field day.
All 3 of those statements contradict each other in some ways. First one he talks about his 9 majors...well the major hunters in LIV all have exemptions to keep playing majors for quite a while unless one or all of them outright ban LIV players from competing so they could still try to take down his 9 or whatever.
He then says it's for people who don't have confidence they can be winners, yet the most recent major winner and biggest rising star in the game is the most recent to join.
Sounds like another person who is simply lashing out because things aren't the same anymore.
He then says it's for people who don't have confidence they can be winners, yet the most recent major winner and biggest rising star in the game is the most recent to join.
Sounds like another person who is simply lashing out because things aren't the same anymore.
$50,000,000. Purse for the final event of the LIV tour. Team match play with the seeds being determined directly after the draft by a closest to the hole competition with the top four teams getting a bye. How can y'all not get excited by this.
RUMOUR: WORLD TOP 10 PLAYER OFF TO LIV GOLF AFTER BEING AGGRIEVED AT "RORY TOUR"
https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/rumour-world-top-10-player-liv-golf-after-being-aggrieved-rory-tour
I'm calling Jon Rahm. He's had some interesting comments since Tiger and Rory decided they were commissioner.
https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/rumour-world-top-10-player-liv-golf-after-being-aggrieved-rory-tour
I'm calling Jon Rahm. He's had some interesting comments since Tiger and Rory decided they were commissioner.
AgLA06 said:
RUMOUR: WORLD TOP 10 PLAYER OFF TO LIV GOLF AFTER BEING AGGRIEVED AT "RORY TOUR"
https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/rumour-world-top-10-player-liv-golf-after-being-aggrieved-rory-tour
I'm calling Jon Rahm. He's had some interesting comments since Tiger and Rory decided they were commissioner.
Rahm was always gonna go eventually. His closest advisors on the tour are the Mickelson's, he's already lashed out about tiger and Rory calling all the shots and he's a euro.
t - cam said:AgLA06 said:
RUMOUR: WORLD TOP 10 PLAYER OFF TO LIV GOLF AFTER BEING AGGRIEVED AT "RORY TOUR"
https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/rumour-world-top-10-player-liv-golf-after-being-aggrieved-rory-tour
I'm calling Jon Rahm. He's had some interesting comments since Tiger and Rory decided they were commissioner.
Rahm was always gonna go eventually. His closest advisors on the tour are the Mickelson's, he's already lashed out about tiger and Rory calling all the shots and he's a euro.
Disagree. I don't think Rahm is going anywhere.
My guess is Hovlandaggiedadofpanda said:t - cam said:AgLA06 said:
RUMOUR: WORLD TOP 10 PLAYER OFF TO LIV GOLF AFTER BEING AGGRIEVED AT "RORY TOUR"
https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/rumour-world-top-10-player-liv-golf-after-being-aggrieved-rory-tour
I'm calling Jon Rahm. He's had some interesting comments since Tiger and Rory decided they were commissioner.
Rahm was always gonna go eventually. His closest advisors on the tour are the Mickelson's, he's already lashed out about tiger and Rory calling all the shots and he's a euro.
Disagree. I don't think Rahm is going anywhere.
RogerFurlong said:
$50,000,000. Purse for the final event of the LIV tour. Team match play with the seeds being determined directly after the draft by a closest to the hole competition with the top four teams getting a bye. How can y'all not get excited by this.
Because I don't care about team golf outside of the ryder cup and college national championship
My guess is Hovland as well.
Although the "Rory Tour" comments seem more characteristic of Rahm than Hovland, and Rahm would be joining Sergio on LIV, I think winning on the PGAT is still important to Rahm.
Although the "Rory Tour" comments seem more characteristic of Rahm than Hovland, and Rahm would be joining Sergio on LIV, I think winning on the PGAT is still important to Rahm.
Agree. The description sounds like Rahm but I'd be pretty surprised if he jumped.
Well-placed source says Apple TV has turned down the opportunity to broadcast LIV Golf as it is “too toxic.”
— Dan Rapaport (@Daniel_Rapaport) September 13, 2022
Still not clear where LIV will be broadcast in 2023.
Why does apple hate change so much
Good. That's one of the few stations I haven't downloaded yet.
Same.
Finding a broadcast partner will be interesting. As Fox discovered, broadcasting golf is an expensive endeavor and your potential audience is fairly capped. I think the average PGA Sunday coverage gets 2-3 mill. There's a perception that a decent chunk of that audience are PGA stalwarts and won't tune in (which I think, at least short term, is right). On the optimistic side, I'm guessing most would project viewership as about half a decent PGA event. It will be interesting to see what someone is willing to pay for probably, at best, 1 to 1.5 mill viewers, that also comes with the added political fallout that Apple just passed because of.
aggiedadofpanda said:t - cam said:AgLA06 said:
RUMOUR: WORLD TOP 10 PLAYER OFF TO LIV GOLF AFTER BEING AGGRIEVED AT "RORY TOUR"
https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/rumour-world-top-10-player-liv-golf-after-being-aggrieved-rory-tour
I'm calling Jon Rahm. He's had some interesting comments since Tiger and Rory decided they were commissioner.
Rahm was always gonna go eventually. His closest advisors on the tour are the Mickelson's, he's already lashed out about tiger and Rory calling all the shots and he's a euro.
Disagree. I don't think Rahm is going anywhere.
Especially after what he said about being upset that LIV golfers being included in the BMW field bumped a DP tour friend of his from the field… weird thing to say if you're about to leave for that same tour you're complaining about.
Maybe cantlay?
In the filings that LIV made in the court case, it included information on Talor Gooch's contract, which contained a clause that says he can't be relegated until after the 2025 season.
Yeah, That's going to be their play going forward. You will likely get 4 to 5 year deals. It's really intended to compensate in a similar manner to all other sports.
I'm getting tired of McIlroy's whining on the LIV subject. Its really damaged my opinion of him.
AggieKatie2 said:
I'm getting tired of McIlroy's whining on the LIV subject. Its really damaged my opinion of him.
Welcome to the current PGAT. At this point they've copied a lot of what LIV has rolled out or had to eat their own words on previous stances. At some point your ability to criticize something you are copying is no longer an option.
Other than the team aspect, which might be one of LIV's biggest advantages, I'm not sure what's left.
Shotgun starts for non majors or the 2nd tier tournaments atleast
True, although I definitely like that aspect of LIV tourneys. No one gets to go low in perfect early morning conditions and sit in the clubhouse while greens dry out and 30 mph winds kick up in the afternoon. Nor can golfers know exactly what they have to shoot on the last hole and choose to lay up to protect a one shot lead from a field already done playing.
And selfishly, getting live coverage of everyone playing is better for the fans.
And selfishly, getting live coverage of everyone playing is better for the fans.
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