If going by that logic shouldn't more people be playing with long drivers instead to get more distance??

Amateurs want to play the same equipment pros do. It applies to any sport.

Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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I absolutely hate this.

The amount of nerds who will play "tour balls" from the tips at their local course will destroy pace even further. It's already impossible to get people to play off the appropriate tee boxes.

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I highly, highly doubt these balls would be sold to the masses. But who knows

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I highly doubt they would be withheld. Where there is money to be made, it will be made in America. Tons of ego monster half decent players will buy them. Tons of top amateurs who want to practice for their professional dreams need easy access.

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I personally think you're giving way too much credit to this. As soon as your buddy who never out drove you starts to...... You'll quickly change back. In my opinion it would be nothing more than a brief novelty and brief novelties aren't good for business decisions

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I hope you're right, but I don't think so. People mimic pros. The person outdriving with the amateur ball will just get scolded by the holier than thou tour ball player.

I'm happy for you that your club isn't full of egotistical dicks.

Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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I absolutely hate this.

The amount of nerds who will play "tour balls" from the tips at their local course will destroy pace even further. It's already impossible to get people to play off the appropriate tee boxes.

---

I highly, highly doubt these balls would be sold to the masses. But who knows

---

I highly doubt they would be withheld. Where there is money to be made, it will be made in America. Tons of ego monster half decent players will buy them. Tons of top amateurs who want to practice for their professional dreams need easy access.

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I personally think you're giving way too much credit to this. As soon as your buddy who never out drove you starts to...... You'll quickly change back. In my opinion it would be nothing more than a brief novelty and brief novelties aren't good for business decisions

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Yeah. Hackers play ProV1s (even though they shouldn't waste their money based on their skill level) because they are considered a great golf ball. Other than serious amateurs with ambitions for the tour, I don't see much of a market for these. I'm sure people will play them a couple of times just to see what they're like, but nobody is going to change to a golf ball that intentionally goes 20 yards shorter.

I agree with the problem the USGA is trying to address, but don't think this is the solution.

Either way JT is so far off to just say it's evolution and because guys go to the gym.

Comparing NBA players jumping higher and PGA golfers hitting a ball further is laughable. JT if it was just evolution, why does every club manufacturer has a full staff of engineers who sole job is to make a club that hits a ball farther and straighter?

JCA1 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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I absolutely hate this.

The amount of nerds who will play "tour balls" from the tips at their local course will destroy pace even further. It's already impossible to get people to play off the appropriate tee boxes.

---

I highly, highly doubt these balls would be sold to the masses. But who knows

---

I highly doubt they would be withheld. Where there is money to be made, it will be made in America. Tons of ego monster half decent players will buy them. Tons of top amateurs who want to practice for their professional dreams need easy access.

---

I personally think you're giving way too much credit to this. As soon as your buddy who never out drove you starts to...... You'll quickly change back. In my opinion it would be nothing more than a brief novelty and brief novelties aren't good for business decisions

---

Yeah. Hackers play ProV1s (even though they shouldn't waste their money based on their skill level) because they are considered a great golf ball. Other than serious amateurs with ambitions for the tour, I don't see much of a market for these. I'm sure people will play them a couple of times just to see what they're like, but nobody is going to change to a golf ball that intentionally goes 20 yards shorter.

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For players with 127 mph swing speeds, they might go 20 yards shorter. For the average duffer, they'll be more likely to go 20 yards further OB, not shorter.

G Martin 87 said:

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JCA1 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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I absolutely hate this.

The amount of nerds who will play "tour balls" from the tips at their local course will destroy pace even further. It's already impossible to get people to play off the appropriate tee boxes.

---

I highly, highly doubt these balls would be sold to the masses. But who knows

---

I highly doubt they would be withheld. Where there is money to be made, it will be made in America. Tons of ego monster half decent players will buy them. Tons of top amateurs who want to practice for their professional dreams need easy access.

---

I personally think you're giving way too much credit to this. As soon as your buddy who never out drove you starts to...... You'll quickly change back. In my opinion it would be nothing more than a brief novelty and brief novelties aren't good for business decisions

---

Yeah. Hackers play ProV1s (even though they shouldn't waste their money based on their skill level) because they are considered a great golf ball. Other than serious amateurs with ambitions for the tour, I don't see much of a market for these. I'm sure people will play them a couple of times just to see what they're like, but nobody is going to change to a golf ball that intentionally goes 20 yards shorter.

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For players with 127 mph swing speeds, they might go 20 yards shorter. For the average duffer, they'll be more likely to go 20 yards further OB, not shorter.

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I'm legitimately asking. Why would this ball-purposefully designed to reduce distance-go further for weekend hackers than virtually every ball currently on the market? And why isn't a ballmaker already not making this ball if it will do this?

Yeah, I'm curious about how many manufacturers are going to want to spend a lot of money on R&D and production for a ball they're not going to be able to sell. I'm in the camp of believing there isn't going to be a big consumer market for this. I guess if the proposal winds up going through as planned, the ball manufacturers will be forced to do something.

Also, what tweaks will have to be made to clubs for the players who are going to be forced to play this ball. Surely there is something the manufacturers will try to do to counter the rollback. More R&D and production for a limited audience.

JCA1 said:

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G Martin 87 said:

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JCA1 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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khaos288 said:

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I absolutely hate this.

The amount of nerds who will play "tour balls" from the tips at their local course will destroy pace even further. It's already impossible to get people to play off the appropriate tee boxes.

---

I highly, highly doubt these balls would be sold to the masses. But who knows

---

I highly doubt they would be withheld. Where there is money to be made, it will be made in America. Tons of ego monster half decent players will buy them. Tons of top amateurs who want to practice for their professional dreams need easy access.

---

I personally think you're giving way too much credit to this. As soon as your buddy who never out drove you starts to...... You'll quickly change back. In my opinion it would be nothing more than a brief novelty and brief novelties aren't good for business decisions

---

Yeah. Hackers play ProV1s (even though they shouldn't waste their money based on their skill level) because they are considered a great golf ball. Other than serious amateurs with ambitions for the tour, I don't see much of a market for these. I'm sure people will play them a couple of times just to see what they're like, but nobody is going to change to a golf ball that intentionally goes 20 yards shorter.

---

For players with 127 mph swing speeds, they might go 20 yards shorter. For the average duffer, they'll be more likely to go 20 yards further OB, not shorter.

---

I'm legitimately asking. Why would this ball-purposefully designed to reduce distance-go further for weekend hackers than virtually every ball currently on the market? And why isn't a ballmaker already not making this ball if it will do this?

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I'm not saying it would go further in a straight line. I'm trying to say that a ball designed to a limited distance in a straight line for a pro at 127 mph is probably going to be damn near uncontrollable for an average golfer. e.g. 20 yards more offline than their usual ball. It might go just as far in a straight line for a slower swinger as their usual ball. High spin off a driver does funny things sometimes.

cb1919 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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Length isn't everything. Everyone thought Bryson would destroy Augusta when he was drinking 30 protein shakes a day and carrying his driver 350. ...... we all saw how well that worked out. Courses can protect themselves from bombers

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Are you talking about the same Augusta that continually purchases more land to push tee boxes further and further back?

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Yes, but one day golf courses will not be able to find any more real estate to buy. There will continually be tech changes with clubs and balls that make them fly even further.

I still can't believe there are so many posters here who think they wouldn't play a new "pro" ball because they'd lose distance.

Yeah, you prolly will BUT it's what the pros play and they will too so it doesn't matter. Talking about the same weekend hacks who shell out $50 bucks a weekend for prov's and proceed to lose them all damn near in one round. Talking about the guys who are playing blades and wedges who have zero business swinging them since they catch everything fat and dig trenches on each hole you could plant corn in when they should be playing super game improvement irons/wedges. Talking about the guys who are carrying multiple fairway woods when they should be hitting hybrids. I could go on but y'all get the point.

The avg golfer is losing tons of distance already when they play because they want to play what the pros play and look the part. Y'all can bet your sweet ass if they come out with a new ball for pros the weekend Joe blow and everyone here will switch to it as well. Not to mention the stigma that would follow if say you're playing a money game and the guy who wins beats the other guy with an older "hotter" ball. Everyone will switch to the new pro ball and it will take the place of the current proV status over time. Guarantee it.

Well..... Just to debunk your EVERYONE claim..... Literally talked to dozens of avid golfers and all have called it stupid and ZERO chance they're switching

Mr.Bond said:

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Well..... Just to debunk your EVERYONE claim..... Literally talked to dozens of avid golfers and all have called it stupid and ZERO chance they're switching

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Yeah and JT called it stupid too. Wonder if he will just quit pro golf if the rule and ball are adopted? We will see…

What's the big ****ing deal?

Where was the outcry when the driver COR was limited to 0.83 and shaft length max to 48? And the size of the head to 460CC?

Imagine a 550CC driver with COR over 0.900 and 55 inch shaft? I'd use it.

Mr.Bond said:

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Well..... Just to debunk your EVERYONE claim..... Literally talked to dozens of avid golfers and all have called it stupid and ZERO chance they're switching

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Yeah, that's my take with my golf buddies too. Nobody I know is saying "Can't wait to switch to that shorter ball! Bring back persimmons too!"

Mr.Bond said:

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cb1919 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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Length isn't everything. Everyone thought Bryson would destroy Augusta when he was drinking 30 protein shakes a day and carrying his driver 350. ...... we all saw how well that worked out. Courses can protect themselves from bombers

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Are you talking about the same Augusta that continually purchases more land to push tee boxes further and further back?

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Yes they have been yet my original statement about bryson stands. He still couldn't bomb and gouge that course like predicted

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Suggesting to tighten the fairways and grow the rough up, and then using the Augusta National/Bryson scenario behind it is a bit ironic, don't you think?

Some hacker named Jack Nicklaus has been calling for a special restricted distance golf ball for the pros for years. What does he know about golf or golf course design?

AustinCountyAg said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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Well..... Just to debunk your EVERYONE claim..... Literally talked to dozens of avid golfers and all have called it stupid and ZERO chance they're switching

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Yeah and JT called it stupid too. Wonder if he will just quit pro golf if the rule and ball are adopted? We will see…

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Jesus..... apples to oranges. He's being forced to for his career. ..... cmon man.

KC_Ag14 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Some hacker named Jack Nicklaus has been calling for a special restricted distance golf ball for the pros for years. What does he know about golf or golf course design?

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Understand your point, but let me be the first one here to say that Nicklaus golf courses unequivocally STINK.

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He has some bad ones and I would never put him the top of designers of the last 30 years like Coore/Crenshaw, Hanse, Fazio, and Doak, but he has some great courses like Muirfield, Castle Pines, Valhalla and Sebonack.

Kansas Kid said:

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KC_Ag14 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Some hacker named Jack Nicklaus has been calling for a special restricted distance golf ball for the pros for years. What does he know about golf or golf course design?

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Understand your point, but let me be the first one here to say that Nicklaus golf courses unequivocally STINK.

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He has some bad ones and I would never put him the top of designers of the last 30 years like Coore/Crenshaw, Hanse, Fazio, and Doak, but he has some great courses like Muirfield, Castle Pines, Valhalla and Sebonack.

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Really.... No mention of Pete Dye??

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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KC_Ag14 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Some hacker named Jack Nicklaus has been calling for a special restricted distance golf ball for the pros for years. What does he know about golf or golf course design?

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Understand your point, but let me be the first one here to say that Nicklaus golf courses unequivocally STINK.

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He has some bad ones and I would never put him the top of designers of the last 30 years like Coore/Crenshaw, Hanse, Fazio, and Doak, but he has some great courses like Muirfield, Castle Pines, Valhalla and Sebonack.

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Really.... No mention of Pete Dye??

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Missed that one and he belongs in the list. He also has some great courses although I think he and his wife got gimmicky at times.

Kansas Kid said:

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KC_Ag14 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Some hacker named Jack Nicklaus has been calling for a special restricted distance golf ball for the pros for years. What does he know about golf or golf course design?

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Understand your point, but let me be the first one here to say that Nicklaus golf courses unequivocally STINK.

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He has some bad ones and I would never put him the top of designers of the last 30 years like Coore/Crenshaw, Hanse, Fazio, and Doak, but he has some great courses like Muirfield, Castle Pines, Valhalla and Sebonack.

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Nicklaus designed Quivira too

Good point, we will see what happens and how the game adjusts…. And fwiw I'd be down to play persimmons right now if I could ever find some for cheap in LH. Golf already kicks my ass, I'd love to play with the old clubs just cause…

AustinCountyAg said:

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Not to mention the stigma that would follow if say you're playing a money game and the guy who wins beats the other guy with an older "hotter" ball. Everyone will switch to the new pro ball and it will take the place of the current proV status over time. Guarantee it.

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I would have exactly zero regrets about playing a legal ball and beating somebody who was playing a different legal ball. Not sure what stigma I am worried about there. "Yeah, I don't know about that Duckhook guy. He plays by the rules."
[url=https://ibb.co/bHyfDPb][/url]

flogmat said:

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I actually like the idea. Kinda surprised to see I'm in the minority. I miss watching tournaments in the 90s. Loved seeing US opens where par won. Love seeing longer approaches with curvature to feed to a pin location. Loved watching creative short game shots to win tournaments. The driver sand wedge game only elevates certain players. That's a part of why, for the most part, the same 10 guys win every week.

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More Corey Pavins please.

I am of the opinion that the PGAT (and maybe more professional golf leagues) will eventually adopt their own rules and regulations. There has been talk of that in the past, but this could push them to it, if the rank and file push back hard enough.

The only weird thing that could happen if the USGA and the R&A does adopt this rule, would be that they could dictate that in order to play in a USGA sanctioned tournament, players would have to use the rolled back ball.

Not sure how that would work, but it's their tournament, their rules.

No effin way are amateurs buying a more difficult ball.

As far as pros, I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. I think you (1) don't roll the ball back, but you do hold it at the status quo and prevent further improvement, and (2) it's how you contour fairways for the pros. It's not just a matter of narrowing everything and growing rough up. I think you narrow long-baller landing zones more aggressively. Strategic deep/high lip bunkers in long baller zones are also options, although you have to be mindful of the members that play this course the other 11 months, so depending on the hole design, that is not always a good option. Make being aggressive an even bigger trade-off

Also, wide tine rakes in bunkers to create deep furrows, and have staff ready to rake them perpendicular to the line of play vs caddies doing it. Also grow the rough up on the edge of bunkers to be insanely gnarly

Talked to my guy today about the ball rolling back

Hes fine with it

His thoughts are that they are trying to bring the smash factor down from 1.5 because driving the ball has become to big of an advantage. Rory for example is #1 driving and ranked 172nd in putting and it doesn't really matter that he can't putt.

I asked why not change driver rules and he said cause the guys that are hitting far are still hitting center of the face. So the ball is where it can effect everyone. He also said that he hopes they sell the "pro" ball to everyone and that amatures prob wouldn't notice much of a difference

I've thought about that last part some. This "huge difference" for the pros might translate to not a huge difference for amateurs. Going from 330 to 297 for a pro for example but maybe for the average Joe it's just going to drop driver from 240 to 225, etc.

Locker rooms across the globe will have that guy who swears he used to hit it 340, then gets out on the course, bunts it 230, and blames the on the new ball.

A skill required on the pro tour prior to the late 1990s was being able to control the spin on those balata balls. Tiger has talked about it, as it affected him in his amateur career. That skill is still necessary to an extent, but nothing like it was.

I've seen where the PGA is complaining (supposedly) that the pros have gained 20 yards in the last 20 years and put all of those gains on the ball. I think that's overstating the effect. The pros these days are very specifically training for speed, and using all sorts of technology (other than golf balls) not available in the 1990s to achieve it. I particularly have in mind launch monitors such as Trackman, which they use to optimize launch conditions as well as tweak their swing to squeeze out every mph of clubhead speed possible. So, if distances are to be rolled back to 1995 levels, they should adjust the amount of distance targeted to account for the faster clubhead speeds of today.

I'm against changes, though. I like that I hit a driver further in my mid-50s than I did in my 30s (I swing it better now, too), but I don't want to use 'amateur' equipment and play a dumbed-down version of the game vs. what the pros play, at least as far as equipment is concerned.

I just ran some quick numbers from the stats on the PGA Tour website. Comparing this season's data to the earliest available (2007), average clubhead speed is up 2.4%, from 112.4 to 115.1, while the average smash factor is up 1.9% from 1.47 to 1.50.
The clubhead speed increase is earned (although one can argue that players' strategies have changed with a lower-spinning ball, this still seems this is mostly due to improved training and technique). The smash factor gain perhaps can be attributed to the ball, but I think the rules always limited the smash to 1.5, and players are just using launch monitors to perfectly optimize launch conditions.
Thoughts?