DannyDuberstein said:

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Several of the defectors have 3-4 year deals that will be ending soon. The PGA would be wise just to wait it out

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was always wondering if some of the bigger guys (i.e. those with leverage) have opt out clauses. Bryson, Cam Smith and Rahm especially.

Waiting for the sunshine pumpers

DJ dead last. Guess he's fishing and not practicing but it's his life.

Liv needs to do something with the DP tour. That should be the move if they want any relevance.

Weird how LIV guaranteed some of these guys life changing/generational money and then their work ethic went down the tubes… really weird.

I think anytime you give a guy in any sport a huge contract you need to be wary. DJ just DGAF anymore. Bryson is surging and Rahm still has a drive. Cam Smith looks to be going through the motions and even admitted his practice slacked. This certainly isn't a situation unique to golf.

I think they hurt their own development of the American audience by starting the year with Saudi, Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore. Need at least one tournament in the states eariler than April 4th.

Bunk Moreland said:

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I think they hurt their own development of the American audience by starting the year with Saudi, Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore. Need at least one tournament in the states eariler than April 4th.

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Scheduling hasn't been ideal. I'm sure part of that is PGAT and sponsors making it very difficult for them to do so.

Scheduling events in Houston in July just doesn't work.

98Ag99Grad said:

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I think anytime you give a guy in any sport a huge contract you need to be wary. DJ just DGAF anymore. Bryson is surging and Rahm still has a drive. Cam Smith looks to be going through the motions and even admitted his practice slacked. This certainly isn't a situation unique to golf.

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Cam Smith had work ethic issues before he was handed a bag of cash. He had always said that in the offseason he didnt want to focus on practicing and then made some changes and started winning. Then he left for LIV and no surprise.

One of the big problems as I see it is that there is no pot of gold left for the up and coming stars as basically years of economic earnings for professional golf (as a business enterprise) have been pulled forwarded by both LIV and the PGAT. Not sure where the next money machine is going to come from with the PE guys raking big *****s off of the top. Stinks for guys like Arberg et al.

Scheduling for LIV this year is odd. They used to go up against lower tier pga events. This year they have gone up against Phoenix, Arnold and the players. Perhaps they thought people would just watch golf all day and into the wee hours.

AgLA06 said:

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Poot said:

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Weird how LIV guaranteed some of these guys life changing/generational money and then their work ethic went down the tubes… really weird.

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Maybe. Probably some truth to life changing money impacting how someone looks at life. I'd be concerned for their mental health if it didn't. Then again he'd already made over $100M just playing golf not counting endorsements before joining LIV. And he's had a 20 year career so he isn't exactly getting any younger. Not everyone is Phil or Tiger or Arnie or Jack.

Maybe it's just instances that fit an agenda. Successful stars falling to irrelevance isn't unique or new for LIV. PGAT has it every year. There just isn't a group of people looking for excuses to dog Homa or Fowler or JT or Spieth or Dufner or Snedeker or Webb Simpson the last couple of years.

Just look at this thread for example. It started off as people looking to discuss LIV and what was going on and ended up a troll ground by the same half dozen people.

Of course those same people (or socks) are notably absent from the widely popular 12 post PGA tournament thread from this weekend. So they can't say their negativity / trolling on display here is about loving golf. It's just hating on something they don't like and going out of their way to ruin this thread for others.

So how about this. Class of 03 and Poot and The D just stick with the PGAT threads.

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The LIV "haters" have some good reasons to hate LIV. First, it's lame. It just is. I watch all kinds of golf and every time I switch over to LIV I just can't get into it. I'd much rather watch a lower tier PGA event featuring a bunch of no names battling it out with has beens. Second, LIV poached a bunch of great players which has diminished the field for PGA events. Rahm, Bryson, Brooks, Cam....should be on the PGA tour, not playing in shorts with DJ music blaring in the background on some golf course I've never heard of.

AgLA06 said:

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Poot said:

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Weird how LIV guaranteed some of these guys life changing/generational money and then their work ethic went down the tubes… really weird.

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Maybe. Probably some truth to life changing money impacting how someone looks at life. I'd be concerned for their mental health if it didn't. Then again he'd already made over $100M just playing golf not counting endorsements before joining LIV. And he's had a 20 year career so he isn't exactly getting any younger. Not everyone is Phil or Tiger or Arnie or Jack.

Maybe it's just instances that fit an agenda. Successful stars falling to irrelevance isn't unique or new for LIV. PGAT has it every year. There just isn't a group of people looking for excuses to dog Homa or Fowler or JT or Spieth or Dufner or Snedeker or Webb Simpson the last couple of years.

Just look at this thread for example. It started off as people looking to discuss LIV and what was going on and ended up a troll ground by the same half dozen people.

Of course those same people (or socks) are notably absent from the widely popular 12 post PGA tournament thread from this weekend. So they can't say their negativity / trolling on display here is about loving golf. It's just hating on something they don't like and going out of their way to ruin this thread for others.

So how about this. Class of 03 and Poot and The D just stick with the PGAT threads.

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This makes twice in two days I've had to set my watch. First with DST and now you coming along to play resident LIV homer who can't admit it's an inferior product.

Support seems to be dwindling around here.

Nah, I'm good. I'll post wherever I like. I can't remember ever liking or enjoying one of your posts, but I don't tell you to stop posting where I might have to see it.

I actually watch the LIV events and I'm moderately entertained, so I keep watching. I like seeing the different golf courses, so I'm glad that LIV is a thing.

I don't hate on LIV. I pointed out human nature. Golf is an incredibly tough game at the highest level, especially at the peak of the game. I was as big of David Duval fan as there was, and there's never been a greater tumble from the top. So sure, it happens… and in golf, it happens all the time.

I guess I was specifically talking about DJ, because he's pretty open about not even liking golf. I get it… it's a job to him and he was really great at his job. He basically got an early retirement offer and said, oh hell yeah. I don't begrudge him for that… it's his prerogative.

Just curious, do any of the respondents on this thread who don't particularly care for LIV, like and watch the TGL?

AgLA06 said:

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Poot said:

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Weird how LIV guaranteed some of these guys life changing/generational money and then their work ethic went down the tubes… really weird.

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Maybe. Probably some truth to life changing money impacting how someone looks at life. I'd be concerned for their mental health if it didn't. Then again he'd already made over $100M just playing golf not counting endorsements before joining LIV. And he's had a 20 year career so he isn't exactly getting any younger. Not everyone is Phil or Tiger or Arnie or Jack.

Maybe it's just instances that fit an agenda. Successful stars falling to irrelevance isn't unique or new for LIV. PGAT has it every year. There just isn't a group of people looking for excuses to dog Homa or Fowler or JT or Spieth or Dufner or Snedeker or Webb Simpson the last couple of years.

Just look at this thread for example. It started off as people looking to discuss LIV and what was going on and ended up a troll ground by the same half dozen people.

Of course those same people (or socks) are notably absent from the widely popular 12 post PGA tournament thread from this weekend. So they can't say their negativity / trolling on display here is about loving golf. It's just hating on something they don't like and going out of their way to ruin this thread for others.

So how about this. Class of 03 and Poot and The D just stick with the PGAT threads.

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Sorry we made you cry

I enjoy LIV, the big pga events and don't really care for the tgl. The pga players who begrudged the LIV players really should thank them. They got the pga to modify some stances and with some big guns leaving, provided more opportunities to earn higher paydays. I don't know if done by design, but the pga "agreeing" to work a deal with the pif but not making a deal has really worked out for the pga. They gave the LIV folks hope, waited them out and any LIV momentum is gone to the point that LIV may be a shell of what it is at this time next year. About the only thing that could save LIV now is Sergio winning the masters. He's in good form and is not one that yearns to be back in the pga.

All the Latin guys (outside of Rahm - who I'm not sure either way) seem to really enjoy LIV. Nieman has also been playing great on that tour, but considering he had just gone wire to wire at Riviera right before joining, one could argue he was already entering a prime run just before.

The early schedule + going up against bigger PGAT tournaments, but not really going up against them due to the time zones was just baffling this year. Made zero sense. We'll see if they can pick up any momentum closer to majors and when tournaments move stateside.

MarkPro said:

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Just curious, do any of the respondents on this thread who don't particularly care for LIV, like and watch the TGL?

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For me, LIV is basically out of sight, out of mind. It's not dislike as much as it is indifference. TGL is more apples to oranges. For just some filler programming for an hour or two on a Monday night when nothing is on, I think it's been fine and I've watched some of it. If it was 3-5 hours per day over a weekend as some sort of competing product, that's different. But that's not what it is or intended to be.

MarkPro said:

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Just curious, do any of the respondents on this thread who don't particularly care for LIV, like and watch the TGL?

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I have watched very little LIV golf. Probably less than 4 hours since inception. I watched a lot of the first couple of weeks of TGL, but lost interest and haven't watched any of the last 3 or 4.

I Am A Critic said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Poot said:

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Weird how LIV guaranteed some of these guys life changing/generational money and then their work ethic went down the tubes… really weird.

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Maybe. Probably some truth to life changing money impacting how someone looks at life. I'd be concerned for their mental health if it didn't. Then again he'd already made over $100M just playing golf not counting endorsements before joining LIV. And he's had a 20 year career so he isn't exactly getting any younger. Not everyone is Phil or Tiger or Arnie or Jack.

Maybe it's just instances that fit an agenda. Successful stars falling to irrelevance isn't unique or new for LIV. PGAT has it every year. There just isn't a group of people looking for excuses to dog Homa or Fowler or JT or Spieth or Dufner or Snedeker or Webb Simpson the last couple of years.

Just look at this thread for example. It started off as people looking to discuss LIV and what was going on and ended up a troll ground by the same half dozen people.

Of course those same people (or socks) are notably absent from the widely popular 12 post PGA tournament thread from this weekend. So they can't say their negativity / trolling on display here is about loving golf. It's just hating on something they don't like and going out of their way to ruin this thread for others.

So how about this. Class of 03 and Poot and The D just stick with the PGAT threads.

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This makes twice in two days I've had to set my watch. First with DST and now you coming along to play resident LIV homer who can't admit it's an inferior product.

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It's a LIV thread for those if us that disagree with you. That's on you for not understanding how threads work. Go troll somewhere else.

FWIW I've watched probably 3:1 ratio more LIV than PGAT this year so far. Not sure if it's been because of timing or what but when I have tuned into the PGAT this year it seems every week it's been no namers in contention and I just can't get into that. Of course this week at Sawgrass should be much better with the elite players in the tournament.

That picture of Koepka is so Brooks. If there was ever a statue of him anywhere in the world, that would be it.

CatD11Ag said:

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Great pics! Thanks!

Golf is so weird. Been traveling, so I didn't see it… but really DJ? 63? Low round by 3 on day 1? Impressive.

The course is very tight on a lot of the holes. The par 3's are a bit average. I think most of the 4's are the tough holes because they narrow down so much. Most of the bogies I have seen are due to drives bouncing out of the fairway and into the rough or fairway bunkers. Guys are not hitting a lot of drivers. All of the pin positions are tucked into corners and tough to get. Kokrak spoke at length about using 7 wood vs 5 wood on several holes just so he would have the proper lie, which I found interesting. He mentioned teeing off with 5 wood on Day 1 and resulting lie was upslope to tight left pin, a shot he doesn't like.

Greens are huge. They are in great shape and there is quite a bit of undulation. Was fun listening to Phil and Kaymer discuss a putt and how it broke. I believe it is 18 that has the "dragon's tongue" as a false front. Sentosa is definitely a resort-style golf course and guys seemed to struggle when the wind is up. The 5's are obvious birdie holes and I saw Bryson and DJ easily reach in 2.

Followed Bryson several holes on Saturday. This is probably not the type of course that best suits his game but was impressed to see him navigate without using driver much and put up a nice score. He shot 65 and birdied every 5.

Saturday was really hot and humid. Several players and caddies were using ice towels between shots. Phil was getting an ice towel just about every tee box. His brother looked rough on the bag; I was surprised how small he is.

Great with the fans - Bryson, Phil, Cam, Brooks, DJ, Rahm, Charles Howell and several others. I was genuinely surprised how willing these guys are to interact with the fans, even during the round. I walked with DJ's group for several holes on Saturday and was surprised how much he showed appreciation to the fans there. He gave several items to kids, signed after the round for a while, was fist bumping from green to tee.

My only disappointment was the Merch building. They have the normal LIV tour stuff (shirts, hats, hoodies), but the team gear was a bit limited. I was hoping to see a wider range of merch. Headed back out for the final round and praying for some cloud cover today. Next week and weekend is the DP Tour Porsche Invitational; looking forward to seeing those guys as it is on a different course and tickets are very cheap in comparison to this LIV event.

https://awfulannouncing.com/golf/pga-tour-outdraws-liv-factor-100.html

This probably hurts the reunification efforts.

Thank God Laurie Canter was in the field. It was a good glimpse at how much adding the LIV players back can do to a tournament.

JCA1 said:

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https://awfulannouncing.com/golf/pga-tour-outdraws-liv-factor-100.html

This probably hurts the reunification efforts.

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Yeah, the PGA would be nuts not to just wait these guys out. Contracts will be expiring shortly and some of these dudes will come back now that they had their monster payday

$5B dollars spent and this is all you have to show for it. Woof.