For those of you who have played competitive golf at a high level, or have been around the sport a lot longer than I have, what are your thoughts on this situation?

The way I understand the issue is that individuals who turned pro and found limited or no success are waiting until their amateur status can be reinstated, and then competing in high level amateur competitions and cleaning house. The individuals who have always been amateurs are basically being crowded out. The discussion has came up lately on podcasts, and Colt Knost has recently stirred the pot by announcing that he will be seeking reinstatement.

Is this a case where these guys don't have a feasible outlet to play in, and its time for a sperate category to be established? Or is this part of a bigger acceptance that sports amateurism in society is practically dead (i.e. - looking past golf - NIL, potentially getting paid at the high school level, etc.)? Or, is it simply the classic answer of play better and winning takes care of itself?

Good discussion on this a few weeks back on the No Laying Up podcast.

In my mind, I see a distinct difference between guys that "played on a tour" and guys that were just shirt stackers in a pro-shop.

The Mid-Am classification was created to allow post-college amateur golfers to compete in high-level amateur events that had become dominated by top collegiate players (who play every day and are mostly training to play on a professional tour).

The prevalence of former professional players dominating Mid-Am events is a different issue, fairly recent, and coincides with the USGA and R&A allowing reinstatement of amateur status. Reinstatement used to be not allowed, then was rare, and now is very commonplace. The end result is that almost all high level Mid-Am events are won by former pros.

I listened to the Fried Egg interview with the recent winner of the Mid-AM who was a former pro. That guy played a bunch of mini-tour events in Florida and never really sniffed high level pro golf. I don't have a problem with that. the guys who have lots of KFT starts or even some PGAT events is another issue to me. It kind of takes away the spirit of the event IMO. Maybe they should be forced to sit out as long as they were a pro, so if they played 5 years on KFT, make them wait 5 years to regain status. Something like that or just create another division for guys like this. It just feels off to me.

98Ag99Grad said:

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I listened to the Fried Egg interview with the recent winner of the Mid-AM who was a former pro. That guy played a bunch of mini-tour events in Florida and never really sniffed high level pro golf. I don't have a problem with that. the guys who have lots of KFT starts or even some PGAT events is another issue to me. It kind of takes away the spirit of the event IMO. Maybe they should be forced to sit out as long as they were a pro, so if they played 5 years on KFT, make them wait 5 years to regain status. Something like that or just create another division for guys like this. It just feels off to me.

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I think there is a waiting period. Knost said that, even if reinstated, he's not eligible until 7 years after he last played on tour.

Generally speaking, mot sure how I feel about this and can kinda see both sides. It does seem weird that a guy like Knost can become an amateur again. But at the same time, becoming a pro golfer is a lot blurrier than most sports. Guys kick around mini-tours that, technically speaking, make them pros but I don't necessarily think that flaming out after a couple of years on a mini-tour should forever rule you out of all competition but professional competition. Not sure where the line should be drawn.

Have them buy back their amateur status, 30% of their career earnings.

_lefraud_ said:

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Have them buy back their amateur status, 30% of their career earnings.

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Don't think I would be that penal but I like the idea in principle. You go pro to try and make money playing golf? Well, it's only fair that it's gonna take money to buy back your amateur status. Maybe a staggered fee depending upon the tours you played on ($10k if you played on the KF tour, $50k if you made it to the PGAT, etc.).

JCA1 said:

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98Ag99Grad said:

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I listened to the Fried Egg interview with the recent winner of the Mid-AM who was a former pro. That guy played a bunch of mini-tour events in Florida and never really sniffed high level pro golf. I don't have a problem with that. the guys who have lots of KFT starts or even some PGAT events is another issue to me. It kind of takes away the spirit of the event IMO. Maybe they should be forced to sit out as long as they were a pro, so if they played 5 years on KFT, make them wait 5 years to regain status. Something like that or just create another division for guys like this. It just feels off to me.

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I think there is a waiting period. Knost said that, even if reinstated, he's not eligible until 7 years after he last played on tour.

Generally speaking, mot sure how I feel about this and can kinda see both sides. It does seem weird that a guy like Knost can become an amateur again. But at the same time, becoming a pro golfer is a lot blurrier than most sports. Guys kick around mini-tours that, technically speaking, make them pros but I don't necessarily think that flaming out after a couple of years on a mini-tour should forever rule you out of all competition but professional competition. Not sure where the line should be drawn.

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This.

Again - don't forget about the guy that posts a couple of 74's to pass the PGA PAT and spends his 20's checking in folks in the pro-shop, cleaning out carts, giving some lessons...realizes that he's working 90 hours a week for $30K.

That dude is still a "Pro Golfer" and can't play in the Am/Mid-Am or even a MGA event or after he walks away to get a normal job.

It seems to me that if you played on the PGA Tour, you shouldn't ever get Mid Am status again. Maybe you make it 5+ starts so that the guy who Monday's in to one or two events isn't ruled out, but I think that would make it simple enough. Maybe you bump it down to include the KFT Tour too.

Quinn said:

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It seems to me that if you played on the PGA Tour, you shouldn't ever get Mid Am status again. Maybe you make it 5+ starts so that the guy who Monday's in to one or two events isn't ruled out, but I think that would make it simple enough. Maybe you bump it down to include the KFT Tour too.

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This, or some derivative thereof is the right approach in my mind.

Colt Knost has career earnings of over $4million from Korn-Ferry/PGA Tour, including 2 wins on the KFT...no way he should get his amateur status back.

A good college player that gets a sponsor and makes a go on the South American tour for a couple of years before giving up the grind - there needs to be a path back to allow this guy to compete for pro-shop credit in his club's Ryder Cup event.

In my opinion, anyone who is a former PGA of America club pro, and not a touring pro, should be a no questions asked amateur reinstatement. That was the original intent of the rule and absolutely makes sense.

Next, a player who hasn't had status on PGA Tour Americas, KFT, or the PGA Tour should absolutely be eligible and have a reasonable but not overly punitive waiting period for reinstatement. Beyond that it gets a little more dicey. I would personally say if you have had three or more years with status on the KF tour or higher you are absolutely ineligible and anything less than that is a case by case judgement with a longer waiting period.

What would be interesting is if The Masters took a stand and said we aren't going to invite the Mid Am champ if they were previously professional with some level of pro success.

Ezra Brooks said:

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Quinn said:

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It seems to me that if you played on the PGA Tour, you shouldn't ever get Mid Am status again. Maybe you make it 5+ starts so that the guy who Monday's in to one or two events isn't ruled out, but I think that would make it simple enough. Maybe you bump it down to include the KFT Tour too.

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This, or some derivative thereof is the right approach in my mind.

Colt Knost has career earnings of over $4million from Korn-Ferry/PGA Tour, including 2 wins on the KFT...no way he should get his amateur status back.

A good college player that gets a sponsor and makes a go on the South American tour for a couple of years before giving up the grind - there needs to be a path back to allow this guy to compete for pro-shop credit in his club's Ryder Cup event.

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This is how I feel. Put a career earnings limit on getting status back and then maybe get a sliding scale for waiting period depending on what tours you played on.

Golf Professional <> Professional Golfer

I don't have a problem with people getting Am status back. While they might be good enough at one point to be a professional at some level, I'm sure their not putting in 80+ hours per week playing golf as an amateur. The dream is over and they just want to compete at a high level for the love of the game. They are skilled yes, but its about their abilities now...if they are good enough to mop the floor with Amateurs then head back out there and play for money.

The whole point of the Mid Am category was to provide an outlet for actual career amateur golfers rather than aspiring professionals.

Colt Knost is actually a great example. He had his shot at golf greatness. He took it. He got to do a bunch of cool stuff in golf in the process (including making quite a bit of money).

I just don't see it as any kind of an injustice if Colt Knost doesn't get to compete in USGA amateur competitions. He's gotten a lot out of the game. Hard for me to see that golf really owes him anything beyond what it's already given him.

Seems that inflation adjusted career earnings would be a pretty simple cutoff for reinstatement. No idea what the right number would be, but certainly if you've made a million bucks playing professional golf then you're a former pro, not an amateur. Gtf outta here with that.

I like tying amateur run up to career earnings.

12 month minimum. If you have been trying to make it as a pro in the last year, you're out.
<100,000 career earnings. 18 months.
100,001-500,000 career earnings. 3 years
500,001-2,000,000. 5 years
over 2 million. No reinstatement. You are a career professional.

Adjust it for inflation now and then.

I think you identify tours where you can't be reinstated from. PGAT, DP World, KFT. For the KFT, I'd be okay as long as it was limited on time - maybe 2 years or less.

Agree with above that it's not some injustice that Colt Knost can't compete for a MidAm or US Am

I didn't even bother considering club pros in this discussion - they are a completely different classification than touring or playing pros. They could be considered a amateur similar to a sales guy who plays five times a week to host clients.

Maybe one option is to have a new category in the complete opposite direction - for players who have never competed at any organized high level (collegiately, mini tour, KFT, DP, PGAT, etc.). If the game is trying to preserve the spirit of true amateurism in some format, that might be a way considering college athletes are practically pros now.

If they gain back their amateaur status can they go back and complete in college if they still have eligibility?

These guys aren't good enough to be pros, but too good to play as amateurs because they were once low level pros? Guess they should just give up golf or hustle old guys at local clubs. 7 years post pro level competition is plenty of time. I am not sure what the issue is here.

TheRatt87 said:

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I'm old and know this is an unpopular opinion, but there should be no reinstatement of amateur status for any player that ever declared their professional status and played in a tournament where they would receive prize money. Which is what each professional fully understood and accepted when they turned professional.

They could have remained amateurs, qualified to play in 3 of the 4 majors, and qualified for most PGA Tour tournaments & received invites from the others. But they chose not to because they wanted the status and potential payoff of being a professional.

But once they found out they weren't good enough, or are no longer good enough, they want to backtrack. Sorry, that's not how it works. And some of these guys will actually pontificate about the integrity of the game. Bobby Jones is rolling over in his grave.
Rant over.

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What about the 20 something club jr assistant pro that plays in a sectional event for a few hundred dollars? He's a pro that played in a tournament for money so if he changes careers he's never able to get am status back?