Having issues with hot water heater breaker constantly tripping all of a sudden. Electrician came out and said it's bc the main house breaker is 125 amp and should be 200 amp. Also saying that needs to swap out all other breakers due to them being "worn" out from the strain of only having 125 amp main breaker. Saying going to cost $2k. Any insight is much appreciated on the truth of this?
Main Breaker Amperage
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Last: 3 yr ago by aggiecody06
I'm not an electrician, but if your total load is getting close to 125 amps, issues will arise Hard to say without knowing how much load you have. Have you added any electrical load recently? Most homes today have 200 amp panels. Also breakers do wear out and need to be replaced, or there is a short on feed to water heater. Cheapest fix may be to change the water heater breaker first to see if that solves issue.
Sounds fishy to me, especially the part about replacing all the breakers.
I would check that water heater first. Particularly, the thermostats (assuming yours has two) and the heating element(s). If the unit is old, check for water leaks too.
A stuck thermostat or bum element can cause the breaker to trip. Wet wires, of course, can too.
I would check that water heater first. Particularly, the thermostats (assuming yours has two) and the heating element(s). If the unit is old, check for water leaks too.
A stuck thermostat or bum element can cause the breaker to trip. Wet wires, of course, can too.
How old is the heater ?
4500 watt elements?
Gas central heat or electric or heat pump ?
Electric dryer or gas ?
Ive seen numerous 125 amp panels run every thing including range, dryer, electric heater and central air.
A failing element can cause breaker tripping.
4500 watt elements?
Gas central heat or electric or heat pump ?
Electric dryer or gas ?
Ive seen numerous 125 amp panels run every thing including range, dryer, electric heater and central air.
A failing element can cause breaker tripping.
Speaking of wet wires, I saw a 13 year old heater a few weeks ago and the entire electrical area on top was full of water to the top with wires and wire nuts submerged and it never threw a breaker and was still heating water.
JP76 said:
How old is the heater ? 2 years old
4500 watt elements? No idea
Gas central heat or electric or heat pump ? Gas central heat
Electric dryer or gas ? Electric
Ive seen numerous 125 amp panels run every thing including range, dryer, electric heater and central air.
A failing element can cause breaker tripping.
Get another electrician...
I'm pretty sure you're main breaker isn't undersized unless you have been tripping your main breaker.
And if you do have to replace everything, $2k is enough to cover a whole new panel. I just had mine replaced/upgraded for $1350 in August (Houston)
It's either a worn breaker, especially after it's been tripping or a problem in the heater.
I'm pretty sure you're main breaker isn't undersized unless you have been tripping your main breaker.
And if you do have to replace everything, $2k is enough to cover a whole new panel. I just had mine replaced/upgraded for $1350 in August (Houston)
It's either a worn breaker, especially after it's been tripping or a problem in the heater.
aggiecody06 said:
Also saying that needs to swap out all other breakers due to them being "worn" out from the strain of only having 125 amp main breaker.
He's either completely ignorant or lying to upsell. Completely false.
You might have a worn out breaker feeding your water heater, which is an easy swap, but they would not wear out your other breakers, nor are they "strained" by an undersized main. It possible that your 125A main is on the small side, but that's not causing this issue. Typically, breakers aren't loaded past 80% at full load. I wouldn't trust this electrician's opinion.
Mind sharing who you used?
High Functioning Moron said:
Mind sharing who you used?
We used MJ Campbell Electric.
The main breaker is sized based on the service wires coming into your home. There's a chance that they're sized for 200A and you could just upgrade the panel, but if you're in an older house and the service is only 125 or 150A, you can't just throw a bigger main breaker on the panel, you have to upgrade the wires going from the transformer to the meter and the meter to the main breaker.aggiecody06 said:
Having issues with hot water heater breaker constantly tripping all of a sudden. Electrician came out and said it's bc the main house breaker is 125 amp and should be 200 amp. Also saying that needs to swap out all other breakers due to them being "worn" out from the strain of only having 125 amp main breaker. Saying going to cost $2k. Any insight is much appreciated on the truth of this?
Breakers do wear out and that's something to try, but you can't just upgrade the main breaker... Is the service overhead or underground? They could probably upgrade the overhead service and the main panel for $3000-4000. There may also be subsidies to help pay to upgrade your panel and electrical service from the IRA.
It's a 2 year old house and it's all underground
Unless your main breaker is tripping, then it's not the problem. What is the water heater model and what size breaker is it on?
Lol at the electrician wanting to replace all the "worn out" breakers that are 2 years old.aggiecody06 said:
It's a 2 year old house and it's all underground
Get another opinion. The first one you got is worthless as many on here have said.
aggiecody06 said:
It's a 2 year old house
He's FOS.
A water heater element is passive. If you apply 240 volts, you get X amount of heat. If you apply 208 volts, you get about 0.75X of heat - it doesn't increase the current or "strain". If your service was really undersized, you'd have issues elsewhere, like lights blinking badly when the refrigerator or AC kicks on, burning up AC motors, your vacuum cleaner would sound like it's drunk, etc.
For S&G, how big is your house? This the main panel or a sub like in a garage?
4/3 2700 sq ft, one and half story with 3 car garage, main panel on outside of house
Still don't see how the panel rating has anything to do with your water heater breaker tripping, but 125A on a 2700 sq ft house is bare minimum. Without seeing all of your appliances, I'd be surprised if that meets code.
Yeah,... on the positive side, I think the house being new increases the probability that the underground service is rated for 200A, the main problem I have with this electrician is that the size of the main breaker doesn't affect other breakers tripping.Dr. Venkman said:
Still don't see how the panel rating has anything to do with your water heater breaker tripping, but 125A on a 2700 sq ft house is bare minimum. Without seeing all of your appliances, I'd be surprised if that meets code.
I was under the impression that almost all new single family homes in areas with code enforcement get 200A service and panels.
I'm sure it's a 200a service panel but builder only installed 125a main breaker
You're sure as in you verified it yourself? Or did the "worn out 2 year old breakers" electrician tell you that?aggiecody06 said:
I'm sure it's a 200a service panel but builder only installed 125a main breaker
I would be suspicious about that. The chances that a builder bought a 200A panel that came with a 200A main breaker and bought a 125A breaker and switched it out for no reason are minimal. You can buy panels and main breakers separately, but because you can buy them together (and its marginally less effort), there would have to be a reason that the builder derated the main breaker relative to the panel.
I'm not saying it didn't necessarily happen, I'm saying that if it happened there is likely a reason and you would want to try to track down that reason. This feels like exactly the kind of situation that causes electrical fires.
Also, as everyone else has said, it wouldn't fix your water heater problem.
The extent of my electrical knowledge stops at swapping out light fixtures and installing ceiling fans. I know for sure it's a 125a main breaker installed. But being a new neighborhood that is being developed as energy efficient development as An Alset Ehome Community, I'd be surprised if the underground lines aren't set up for 200a lines. Didn't know a panel came "built" figured the panels were kinda universal and electrician that does wiring just fits either 125a or 200a breaker according to need/specs of house.
To solve your water heater issue, take a picture of your water heater nameplate and the breaker that feeds it.
As far as your service, you'd have to remove the panel cover and take a picture of the writing on the main cables coming in from underground.
As far as your service, you'd have to remove the panel cover and take a picture of the writing on the main cables coming in from underground.
Assuming this is a standard spec home neighborhood, I could see a lot of reason why the electrician would have put in a 125a in the panel. Especially a 2 year old home - 2020 build.
He basically put it what he had available. Could have damaged the breaker and swapped with something in the truck. Supply chain issues, etc.
Who knows, but I wouldn't be surprised an anything in a lot of new builds...
He basically put it what he had available. Could have damaged the breaker and swapped with something in the truck. Supply chain issues, etc.
Who knows, but I wouldn't be surprised an anything in a lot of new builds...
Its not terribly likely (fully loading a main breaker is very rare), but pulling 200A+ through a service wire only rated for 125A could cause major issues and if the conductors get damaged burying a new electrical service is going to be very expensive. If the panel is only rated for 150, you could conceivably overload the bus bars and that could be a fire in a box attached to the house. A competent electrician wouldn't upgrade the main breaker to a higher amperage without verifying that the rest of the components could handle it.Caliber said:
Assuming this is a standard spec home neighborhood, I could see a lot of reason why the electrician would have put in a 125a in the panel. Especially a 2 year old home - 2020 build.
He basically put it what he had available. Could have damaged the breaker and swapped with something in the truck. Supply chain issues, etc.
Who knows, but I wouldn't be surprised an anything in a lot of new builds...
The consequences of assuming that some random electrician decided to put everything in for 200A service, but somehow damaged the main breaker that was probably already installed in the panel (but didn't damage the panel itself) and then happened to ONLY have a 125A main breaker in their truck and installed it rather than getting the proper breaker are too dire to rely on.
It is at least equally likely that there is a reason that the main breaker was derated and that issue has to be remedied before you could safely install a 200A breaker. It may be derated because an electrician screwed something up in the electrical system of the house.
The service SHOULD be 200A, but the panel and the main breaker on a house that size (especially one that is more likely to have electric appliances) should also be 200A and they aren't. I would highly recommend getting an electrician out there other than the one that thinks upgrading the main breaker will fix a problem with a branch breaker AND that breakers wear out in 2 years and have to be replaced. Have them check out the system as best they can and see what they think about it. While they're in there, they can fix the actual cause the water heater issue.
He did the NEC calculation and it told him 125A so he put that in. If so, then I'm sure he also pulled 125A cable.Quote:
He basically put it what he had available. Could have damaged the breaker and swapped with something in the truck. Supply chain issues, etc.
We're set up for gas so we have gas stove and furnace. Electrical main draws are obviously water heater and dryer.
You can tell what amperage a service panel is because it'll be on the big switch at the top of the breaker (the whole house breaker).
And trust me, you won't accidentally mix up a 125 and 200 amp panel. They're way different heights. And no electrician is leaving a 200 amp nearly half empty with 125 amount of circuits.
You're getting lied to.
And trust me, you won't accidentally mix up a 125 and 200 amp panel. They're way different heights. And no electrician is leaving a 200 amp nearly half empty with 125 amount of circuits.
You're getting lied to.
If your are comfortable with a multimeter turn power off and continuity check the water heater elements.
if open then ensure Water Heater power is off and change the element. Bottom element most likely failed.
Cheap and easy DIY job.
I think a 1 1/4" socket fits the element hex head. I've changed several.
You might also have to change top element but less likely.
Fill, vent, and turn power on. Adjust element temperature setting.
125 Amp main breaker is adequately supplying load to house. If not, it would trip.
Your electrician has a poor understanding how to apply basic electrical principles ( Ohms Law) troubleshooting a problem.
That is not unusual for a residential electrician.
Or he is dishonest.
if open then ensure Water Heater power is off and change the element. Bottom element most likely failed.
Cheap and easy DIY job.
I think a 1 1/4" socket fits the element hex head. I've changed several.
You might also have to change top element but less likely.
Fill, vent, and turn power on. Adjust element temperature setting.
125 Amp main breaker is adequately supplying load to house. If not, it would trip.
Your electrician has a poor understanding how to apply basic electrical principles ( Ohms Law) troubleshooting a problem.
That is not unusual for a residential electrician.
Or he is dishonest.
Easy solution is to stop reheating hot water
HUZZAH!Dr. Venkman said:He did the NEC calculation and it told him 125A so he put that in. If so, then I'm sure he also pulled 125A cable.Quote:
He basically put it what he had available. Could have damaged the breaker and swapped with something in the truck. Supply chain issues, etc.
If the original electrician put in larger wire out of the kindness of his heart I'll eat your hat. Just because "a lot" of new homes have 200A panels doesn't mean they all need them, especially with gas appliances. Quite a few utility companies own and maintain the service lateral, which is the set of conductors from the transformer or handhole to the meter. They follow their own standards based on real world diversity factors, which will be smaller than the service equipment main panel and everything downstream in your house. It's entirely likely a new home with a 200A panel is fed by the utility with wire only good for a hundred and change.
I'm in a Powerpoint from hell meeting and bored.
Lighting/receptacles 2700 x 3VA/sqft = 8100 VA
Small appliance 2 x 1500 = 3000 VA
Laundry 1 x 1500 = 1500 VA
Dryer 7200 VA
Microwave (assuming built in above stove) 1800 VA
Dishwasher 1800 VA
Disposal 1800 VA
Fart fans 3 x 50 = 150 VA
Total 25,350
NEC 220.82 Optional Calc for Dwelling Unit
25,350 10,000 = 15,350
15,350 x 40% = 6,140
General load total 6,140 + 10,000 = 16, 140 VA
Service total:
General 16,140
Gas furnace, hp motor 1000 VA
4ish ton condensing unit 8400 VA
Service total = 25,540 VA
25,540 VA / 240V = 106A
Next size standard breaker is 125A.
OP,
Tell that electrician you are going to pursue the "undersized" panel with the builder. Ask him to provide an NEC calc to justify a 200A panel. If he stutters, hand him the above and then Conner McGregor walk around him and tell him to GTFO*.
* provided you don't have a bunch of other equipment or a pool.
Contact the builder and original electrical contractor. If there's an issue with the install they should take care of it.aggiecody06 said:
It's a 2 year old house and it's all underground
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
YellAg2004 said:Lol at the electrician wanting to replace all the "worn out" breakers that are 2 years old.aggiecody06 said:
It's a 2 year old house and it's all underground
Get another opinion. The first one you got is worthless as many on here have said.
EDIT: See this has been addressed already so ignore my post.
Edited after your update. FWIW, I've got (2) 200A panels in my house with gas heaters/water heaters, haha.
OP, the more I think about this, the more it makes me mad. There's about a 5% chance this was an honest (serious) mistake, but otherwise was likely a criminally dishonest attempt to overcharge. Either way is not a good look and I wouldn't call him again.
OP, the more I think about this, the more it makes me mad. There's about a 5% chance this was an honest (serious) mistake, but otherwise was likely a criminally dishonest attempt to overcharge. Either way is not a good look and I wouldn't call him again.
I have 100amp service in a 1960's house with gas appliances. No problem at all.
Electrician is a liar.
Electrician is a liar.
I have also seen 100 amp panel run no problem on numerous houses from the 50's to 60's with even an electric range and electric dryer and electric water heater. The problem is if it does not have gas heat then usually the panel has to be upgraded.
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